Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[Navy_Pete]

Can you somehow link me to it?

It's on the Ottawa Citizen for 29 November; I'll send you a PM with the link.

 

[Good2Golf]

Can you somehow link me to it?

PM sent

 

[KevinB]

Usually I like Rory Fowlers articles - I don't always agree with him, but that post was utter tripe.

I read the Ottawa Citizen article - it makes me weep, but I am not shocked at all.
For those who watch Yellowstone - I think the CF should adopt the "Long Black Train" HR Model to deal with this issue...

 

[dimsum]

but that post was utter tripe.

So...delicious if stewed in a light ginger and chicken broth?

(I'm always the only one eating it when going for dimsum.)

 

[OldSolduer]

Thanks all. That’s who I thought it was

 

[kev994]

Can we split this thread? We’ve been off track for several pages

 

[OceanBonfire]

The Canadian military says actions taken so far against Adm. Art McDonald are “significant” and there are no plans to pursue measures like stripping or lowering his rank.

...

“Admiral McDonald will be releasing from the CAF, and the prior actions taken, including his suspension from the performance of his duties, as well as the subsequent termination of his appointment are considered significant actions,” said a spokesperson for the Department of National Defence.

“Further information regarding conditions of release is protected by the Privacy Act.”

...

He has said he intends to retire from the military.

In contrast, military police sources emphasized the issue of rank in September when questioned by Global News on the decision not to pursue code of service penalties against McDonald’s predecessor, retired general Jonathan Vance.

Those sources cited the findings from former Supreme Court of Canada justice Morris Fish in June that it would be “legally impossible” for the military to charge and try someone in the role of chief of the defence staff because they have no peers to sit on the military panel weighing the charges.

However, that determination was specifically in relation to courts martial.

...

Military says Adm. Art McDonald already faced ‘significant’ action as police report released - National | Globalnews.ca

Global News obtained a copy of the military police sexual misconduct investigation into Adm. Art McDonald via access to information laws.

globalnews.ca

 

[KevinB]

Military says Adm. Art McDonald already faced ‘significant’ action as police report released - National | Globalnews.ca

Global News obtained a copy of the military police sexual misconduct investigation into Adm. Art McDonald via access to information laws.

globalnews.ca

JFC
I mean it seems to be par for the course these days but can the CAF just stop stepping on its dick for once?

AAM should be dragged through the street and drawn and quartered (legally not physically) if for nothing more than to make a clear statement that the CAF isn't going to tolerate these sort of shenanigan any further - and rank will not count for anything if one violates the law.

 

[Halifax Tar]

JFC
I mean it seems to be par for the course these days but can the CAF just stop stepping on its dick for once?

AAM should be dragged through the street and drawn and quartered (legally not physically) if for nothing more than to make a clear statement that the CAF isn't going to tolerate these sort of shenanigan any further - and rank will not count for anything if one violates the law.

Isn't there a quote or something about sacrificing a General every once in a while just to reinforce discipline ?

 

[KevinB]

Isn't there a quote or something about sacrificing a General every once in a while just to reinforce discipline ?

If not there should be more than a quote

 

[Infanteer]

Isn't there a quote or something about sacrificing a General every once in a while just to reinforce discipline ?

That was an Admiral. (Byng)

 

[OldSolduer]

Isn't there a quote or something about sacrificing a General every once in a while just to reinforce discipline ?

Yes and it was an admiral - for encouragement of the others.

 

[McG]

… said a spokesperson for the Department of National Defence.

The Canadian Military says …

Not to be pedantic but, is this message from DND or the CAF? Is there anyone in the military with authorities to pursue stronger actions than those taken by the government? If no, is this a policy statement (ministerial/departmental responsibility space as opposed to military) explaining that civilian leadership is not interested or n pressing the matter further?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

My only question....

What consulting firm will Admiral McDonald be working for in retirement? 😁

 

[daftandbarmy]

My only question....

What consulting firm will Admiral McDonald be working for in retirement? 😁

I'll help narrow the field here for you a bit: Not mine.

 

[FJAG]

I'm keeping my powder dry at this point.

I've seen nothing yet which convinces me on even a balance of probabilities, much less a reasonable doubt, the he's guilty of anything.

Quite frankly I can see Rory's viewpoint that this is a railroad job being done on a very flimsy "Caesar's wife must be above superstition" premise. If the same standard was applied to the PM he'd have been out on his ear long ago.

McDonald's public statement a few weeks back was questionable and troubling but quite frankly, if I was innocent and being treated the way that he was I'd be squawking too.

This has nothing to do with him being a privileged person who should get away with things but has everything to do with being treated with procedural fairness and a modicum of respect and dignity due to every serving member.

I would very much like to go through the unredacted police investigation report to see what's in it and what is not in it.

I'm generally a trusting sort but in this case I don't trust anyone.

🍻

 

[KevinB]

I'm keeping my powder dry at this point.

I've seen nothing yet which convinces me on even a balance of probabilities, much less a reasonable doubt, the he's guilty of anything.

Two different eyewitnesses have come forward to corroborate one of the allegations of sexual assault.

Quite frankly I can see Rory's viewpoint that this is a railroad job being done on a very flimsy "Caesar's wife must be above superstition" premise. If the same standard was applied to the PM he'd have been out on his ear long ago.

PM probably should be in jail too - just my 0.02

McDonald's public statement a few weeks back was questionable and troubling but quite frankly, if I was innocent and being treated the way that he was I'd be squawking too.

This has nothing to do with him being a privileged person who should get away with things but has everything to do with being treated with procedural fairness and a modicum of respect and dignity due to every serving member.

Look back earlier in this thread - the MP's basically squashed two witnesses.
One of them came out to a media outlet.

I would very much like to go through the unredacted police investigation report to see what's in it and what is not in it.

I'm generally a trusting sort but in this case I don't trust anyone.

🍻

Neither do I - so I'd rather a NON DND entity take it over - and re-interview a bunch of people -- because quite frankly MP's have shown they know how to use a shredder a little too well.

 

[kev994]

I mean it seems to be par for the course these days but can the CAF just stop stepping on its dick for once?

I think we’re supposed to say ‘non-gender-specific genitalia.

 

[kev994]

My only question....

What consulting firm will Admiral McDonald be working for in retirement? 😁

The one charged with eliminating sexual-misconduct based on having experience ‘within the system’

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I'm keeping my powder dry at this point.

I've seen nothing yet which convinces me on even a balance of probabilities, much less a reasonable doubt, the he's guilty of anything.

Quite frankly I can see Rory's viewpoint that this is a railroad job being done on a very flimsy "Caesar's wife must be above superstition" premise. If the same standard was applied to the PM he'd have been out on his ear long ago.

McDonald's public statement a few weeks back was questionable and troubling but quite frankly, if I was innocent and being treated the way that he was I'd be squawking too.

This has nothing to do with him being a privileged person who should get away with things but has everything to do with being treated with procedural fairness and a modicum of respect and dignity due to every serving member.

I would very much like to go through the unredacted police investigation report to see what's in it and what is not in it.

I'm generally a trusting sort but in this case I don't trust anyone.

🍻

I agree but I think the strategic error McDonald made was making statements, sending letters to other GOFOs, etc. Anyone with half a brain knew his career was over.

The best course of action IMO was to just say nothing or do what General Cadieu did and gracefully withdraw.

Everyone would have forgotten about it and his reputation would have largely remained intact. Now his reputation is also destroyed..... and for what?

Ego and stubborness.