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Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

Weinie

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The day that I see Cpl Bloggins ever be placed in a position to have a vindictive and apparently untouchable senior bureaucrat (allegedly) engineer a life-impacting criminal charge and proceedings against them purported to have happened during basic training three decades earlier, I’ll agree that everyone should be treated equally, but with the twist that they should all be able to wear 1A when defending themselves in any court, military or civilian. When the truth comes out on this one, I think you might agree EITS. We shall see.
They are cancerous.
 

McG

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False equivalency with the icing of a conviction on top.
We have the power of hind-site, but Williams is not a false equivalency. If Williams had decided to fight the charges against him, there would not have been "icing of a conviction on top" at that time. Are we happy that anyone can wear the CAF uniform to defend themselves in court? The answer is yes or no. The answer cannot be yes but only when we like the guy.

If Williams had been in court using his uniform to persuade the world and the court that he was innocent, would we have been happy with that? If the answer is no, then the answer must always be no.
 

Good2Golf

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Are we happy that anyone can wear the CAF uniform to defend themselves in court? The answer is yes or no. The answer cannot be yes but only when we like the guy.
I disagree. Don’t restrict based on hindsight of a past extreme. I have no grief with any CAF member wearing 1A in court. I’m certainly not going to try an pre-judge any of them.
 

Navy_Pete

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False equivalency with the icing of a conviction on top.

So is Williams going to be dragged out as a ridiculous extreme every time there is a question, grey zone, etc. about a presumed innocent member of the CAF going to court?
Also, he is a rapist and murder, not up for sexual misconduct. Totally different.
 

dapaterson

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The complainant in court is alleging that she was sexually assaulted by Fortin.
 

Weinie

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Also, he is a rapist and murder, not up for sexual misconduct. Totally different.
I was a PAO for more than 25 years. If you had asked me in 2010 what were the top 1000 issues that the CAF would have to deal with that year, I would not have surmised that the CO of Trenton would have been indicted for murder. Outlier/Black swan.
 
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McG

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But members of the military doing criminal things is not a black swan. Through the years, I have seen CAF members charges for all sorts of things ... drunk driving, theft, street racing, assault, sexual assault, confinement & sexual assault, sexual assault of minors, drug trafficking, and more. Sometimes these individuals are found guilty and sometimes not-guilty. Some of the not-guilty are still released because the balance of probabilities suggests they probably did something very wrong.

We get fussed on this site when the media feel the need to publicize the individual's connection to the military. Surely it must be worse for the individual to turn themselves into a billboard that announces this connection.
 

Good2Golf

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The complainant in court is alleging that she was sexually assaulted by Fortin.
And that is for the Court to determine, is it is for the Court to determine if the complainant’s alleging of aggravated sexual assault against VAdm Edmundson is upheld. I still think they both (Fortin and Edmundson) should be able to wear 1A…or do we put restrictions on dress specifically for those alleged to have committed sexually-related crimes, vice say, alleged to had disclosed national secrets or cabinet confidences?
 

Navy_Pete

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I was a PAO for more than 25 years. If you had asked me in 2010 what were the top 1000 issues that the CAF would have to deal with that year, I would not have surmised that the CO of Trenton would have been inducted for murder. Outlier/Black swan.
There have been a few studies that show there are a number of psycopaths in high performing positions, but the vast majority aren't actually violent. There seems to be a fair bit of overlap at the qualities of a good leader as well as a psycopath, but yeah, pretty crazy situation.
 

Weinie

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But members of the military doing criminal things is not a black swan. Through the years, I have seen CAF members charges for all sorts of things ... drunk driving, theft, street racing, assault, sexual assault, confinement & sexual assault, sexual assault of minors, drug trafficking, and more. Sometimes these individuals are found guilty and sometimes not-guilty. Some of the not-guilty are still released because the balance of probabilities suggests they probably did something very wrong.

We get fussed on this site when the media feel the need to publicize the individual's connection to the military. Surely it must be worse for the individual to turn themselves into a billboard that announces this connection.
i spent more than 39 years in the military. The fact that a population of more than 100k occasionally commits crimes is, to me, ordinary. The fact that the Commanding Officer of CFB Trenton committed two murders, is to me, a Black Swan.
 

Lumber

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I was a PAO for more than 25 years. If you had asked me in 2010 what were the top 1000 issues that the CAF would have to deal with that year, I would not have surmised that the CO of Trenton would have been indicted for murder. Outlier/Black swan.
Your user name makes so much more sense now... :p
 

Eye In The Sky

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The day that I see Cpl Bloggins ever be placed in a position to have a vindictive and apparently untouchable senior bureaucrat (allegedly) engineer a life-impacting criminal charge and proceedings against them purported to have happened during basic training three decades earlier, I’ll agree that everyone should be treated equally, but with the twist that they should all be able to wear 1A when defending themselves in any court, military or civilian. When the truth comes out on this one, I think you might agree EITS. We shall see.

If the findings on this or any legal process are balanced on “medals or ribbons”, something is seriously failing IMO.

The severity of accusations and jeopardy to the mbr is real, but I don’t see the link to that and “ignoring another policy”.
 

Good2Golf

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If the findings on this or any legal process are balanced on “medals or ribbons”, something is seriously failing IMO.
…(logical extension) or uniform then, right? Civil court begets civilian attire?
 

Weinie

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Your user name makes so much more sense now... :p
The COS of LFCA said I was, and always would be, a staff weinie, and the degree my opinion would factor into the discussion would differ. depending on the severity of the discussion. I concurred, and then had the Comd overrule his advice, based on my advice, multiple times. Suck that COS.
 

Good2Golf

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The COS of LFCA said I was, and always would be, a staff weinie, and the degree my opinion would factor into the discussion would differ. depending on the severity of the discussion. I concurred, and then had the Comd overrule his advice, based on my advice, multiple times. Suck that COS.
Man…you were so much nicer when you were a wiggly-amp kid… 😆
 

McG

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…or do we put restrictions on dress specifically for those alleged to have committed sexually-related crimes, vice say, alleged to had disclosed national secrets or cabinet confidences?
I would suggest that the uniform should not be worn to defend one's self in criminal court regardless of the charge. If it is not a service offence in front of a service tribunal, then the service uniform does not belong.
 

Eye In The Sky

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…(logical extension) or uniform then, right? Civil court begets civilian attire?

Unless the provisions for No 1A are met, or any other order in the Annex or pub…yes.

As a Jnr NCM, I attended court as the accused. In civilians, as was my Attending Officer (a CP02), years ago. Recently, I know of a Snr NCO in court as the accused facing CCC charges. Both them and their Attending Officer (a Capt) were in civilians. The Snr NCO has medals and service that are unrelated to the charges.
 
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