Sexual Misconduct Allegations in The CAF

[Kat Stevens]

Guess we'll never know now, will we? And Amber is totes innocent, she said so after all.

 

[QV]

I have a credible account of the events presented by the victim in question.

That is literally all I need to believe her.

“Credible”? How would you know it’s credible?

 

[Takeniteasy]

Once again, the amount of armchair quarterbacking is comical. This thread is an example of why people have found it hard to come forward to report. Unless you are directly involved with the alleged facts, events then you are simply speculating and from my experience many current and former members lack any faculty to address these matters. Just because you know someone, flew with them, served in the dirt beside them, sat beside them in morning briefs etc... does not mean you know them or that they are not capable of committing offences. We have many examples of members (proven truth/factual) doing things we cannot comprehend of wrap our brains around compared to the person we knew or thought we had known.

I lost my career after almost 22 years of busting my ass trying to prove I was of value to only hear well it's a sensitive topic and you need to know your place. Thankfully I have not gone the route of suicide (but that is just me saying to myself over and over "don't give them the satisfaction) but I have listened to many cans of BEERS over the years! I have also had to watch while my at the time commander has moved up in the ranks and is now head of a division. This is a person who tried to use verbal and physical intimidation to try and stop me from submitting a formal complaint. They were the first in a line of COC officers/Senior Command Chiefs who shit the bed and all I could do was sit there with no voice or power. It has taken 10 years and a ruling by a Human Rights Commissioned Lawyer for the Class Action to provide me with some smitten of truth in what I have been going through.

Review the three reports by former Supreme Court Judges and the CAF apology. You can bet when I sit down for the so-called Restorative Justice meeting that not only my name will be used in the discussion but those who were the ones who perpetuated discriminatory behaviors. I have had to learn to stop making excuses for them and realize that it was not my fault for doing the right thing. But no worries they will not bear any weight; it has been mine to bare for the past ten years and for the future.

In my circumstances the CDS said in the Final Decision, the CAF does not preclude LGBT members from affiliating themselves with any group! Well, I belonged to the Canadian Armed Forces and that was the only group I should have needed to feel safe, my back covered, and valued!

These issues are not black and white and are extremely complicated but if you cannot agree while wearing the CAF uniform to upholding the highest of standards for human worth, dignity, and spirit then you need to find yourself another job. Ranting over....

 

[Kilted]

Just going to put it out there while I'm slowly backing away........maybe no one wanted to talk to the spouse of a co-worker who was out getting her monkey punched?

I know I wouldn't.....

Just going to put it out there while I'm slowly backing away........maybe no one wanted to talk to the spouse of a co-worker who was out getting her monkey punched?

I know I wouldn't......

I think that this was a much more complicated situation than has been reported on.

 

[FJAG]

I don't see how we can pretend to value a victim-centric approach to sexual assault if senior officers refuse to give up even half an hour of their time to speak with a victim who's requesting it.

Senior officers getting involved in talking to victims and witnesses is a quick way for an allegation of command influence to be generated.

You leave investigations to the professionals and you leave victim support to the professionals.

🍻

 

[QV]

Senior officers getting involved in talking to victims and witnesses is a quick way for an allegation of command influence to be generated.

You leave investigations to the professionals and you leave victim support to the professionals.

🍻

That’s a bit of legal advice many could/should have used over the years.

 

[OldSolduer]

Assuming that the claim is not a bald-faced lie, then yes, I am.

Hunting witches are you? All men are not to be believed? Have you no sense of justice?

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think that this was a much more complicated situation than has been reported on.

I'm with you.

Also I am very sorry our organization treated you so poorly. You didn't deserve that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Brace, brace, brace....

On Oct. 11, Statistics Canada will begin conducting the 2022 Survey on Sexual Misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces. CAF members will receive personalized links via email. The survey will remain open until Dec. 21, 2022.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577735220639727616

 

[kev994]

Brace, brace, brace....

On Oct. 11, Statistics Canada will begin conducting the 2022 Survey on Sexual Misconduct in the Canadian Armed Forces. CAF members will receive personalized links via email. The survey will remain open until Dec. 21, 2022.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1577735220639727616

Oh good, another voluntary/mandatory survey.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Assuming that the claim is not a bald-faced lie, then yes, I am.

You, and anyone who thinks like this (guilty until proven innocent) are a massive problem in the CAF, and in Canada.

 

[OldSolduer]

You, and anyone who thinks like this (guilty until proven innocent) are a massive problem in the CAF, and in Canada.

The presumption of innocence is paramount...

Except on the crimes of sexual assault - at least in some peoples' minds.

There will always be those despite all evidence to the contrary that will say "He did it".

 

[btrudy]

The presumption of innocence is paramount...

Except on the crimes of sexual assault - at least in some peoples' minds.

There will always be those despite all evidence to the contrary that will say "He did it".

Again, the presumption of innocence is paramount for the criminal justice system. I am not the criminal justice system.

I'm allowed to come to my own conclusions. You can't go through life never believing anything anyone says unless it's proven in court. If your buddy comes to you with "I caught my wife cheating on me", I wouldn't expect your response to be "Where's the court decision?". If I go and punch my boss in the face, I sure as shit expect that action will be taken even before the court martial is conducted.

Hell, I'm also allowed to make judgements that conflict with judgements that the criminal justice; Bill Cosby is still a rapist piece of shit, even if he got off on a technicality.

When someone says that they were raped, you're allowed to believe them.

The victim's account in this case seems perfectly credible to me, and I see no compelling reason I shouldn't believe her.

And frankly, I think all y'all who seem default to always disbelieving any allegations of sexual assault are contributing immensely to the CAF's culture that routinely allows rapists to get off without consequences. You're doing a massive disservice to your fellow service members, and to Canada as a whole.

 

[QV]

The victim's account in this case seems perfectly credible to me, and I see no compelling reason I shouldn't believe her.

There will be differing opinions on the level of credibility based on the available information. How complainants act/react post incident, for example, may partially drive that opinion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

When someone says that they were raped, you're allowed to believe them.

Of course you are.

Personally I think 90% (or more) of the alligations of sexual assault in the CAF are legitimate.

I would also believe 90% (or more) of sexual assaults go unreported.


Part of the problem comes from the optics of people defending proceedural fairness.
Some see that as not defending victims.

The truth is when proceedural fairness isn't followed guilty people go free. So it's vital we follow proceedural fairness to make sure victims get justice.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

btrudy thinks things need to change in the CAF,.......Also btrudy,......."march the guilty bastard in".

 

[btrudy]

btrudy thinks things need to change in the CAF,.......Also btrudy,......."march the guilty bastard in".

Well fucking excuse me for thinking that a system which perpetuates sexual violence and shields abusers from consequences is absolutely a high priority for things to fix.

My bad. It's not like this, oh, I dunno, has been ruining our collective reputation for well over a decade or anything.

 

[OldSolduer]

Society itself has to change.


Good luck

 

[btrudy]

Society itself has to change.


Good luck

I would posit that it's at least feasible in theory for an organization which prides itself upon operating on the notion of "discipline" should at least in theory be able to lead the way in eliminating such behaviour from its ranks.

Mind you, seems like half the people on this board seem opposed to any actual actions taken to do so, so... y'know.

 

[Furniture]

Well fucking excuse me for thinking that a system which perpetuates sexual violence and shields abusers from consequences is absolutely a high priority for things to fix.

My bad. It's not like this, oh, I dunno, has been ruining our collective reputation for well over a decade or anything.

I think you missed the point entirely.

In the particular case that has been the topic of discussion lately, you seem to be quite happy to ignore the concerns raised regarding the investigation. I suspect you are quite happy ignoring the concerns for broadly the same reasons the MPs seem to have conducted themselves the way they did, wanting to see someone pay. i.e. "March the guilty bastard in"

You can't fix a broken system by breaking the system in a different way. If people don't trust that they will get a fair investigation into allegations, then the system has failed.