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The Mega "MIGRANT THREAT TO EUROPE" thread

Jarnhamar

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Altair said:
Meh. People kill other people for stupid, illogical reasons all over the place.

Honor killings, business deal gone wrong, voices in head.

Knowing your posting history (I mean that in a positive way) I don't believe for a second that you lump this all together and don't see a difference between every day violence and violence imported to a country through culture.

In point of fact you say " As long as they aren't doing it at greater rates than the native population." I'm fairly certain honour killings, acid attacks, assaulting people for ordering ham on their pizza or walking an (unclean)  dog aren't common to London or Europes native population.

The increase in sexual assaults in Germany is a valid issue for example.
Instead of saying Germany you could say the rest of Europe minus the countries that aren't accepting migrants.



I was rather happy reading this article, though pretty pissed off a Canadian judge was moronic enough to give an abuser a lighter sentence because of his "culture".

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2015/07/20/an-ontario-court-has-just-affirmed-that-cultural-norms-that-excuse-violence-have-no-place-here-editorial.html


The woman, a recent immigrant from Iran, suffered brutal spousal abuse but didn’t even realize it was against the law.

After moving to Canada in 2009 her husband forced the woman, whose identity is protected by the court, to have sex with him by hitting her, pulling her hair, pinching her and forcefully removing her clothes. “She cried out quietly so the children would not hear,” court was told.

He also slapped, kicked and punched their two sons and hit them with a belt. Once he locked them outside the house on a snowy winter day wearing nothing but shorts and T-shirts until their mother came home and rescued them.

When the husband was convicted of sexual assault and assault, Justice William Gorewich of Ontario court sentenced him to 18 months, citing mitigating factors that included the lack of a criminal record. The judge also noted a “significant cultural gap” between behaviour that is accepted in Canada and in Iran, and the “cultural impact” of changing countries.

That didn’t cut much mustard with the Ontario Court of Appeal, nor should it have.

On appeal by the Crown, Justices Mary Lou Benotto, Alexandra Hoy and David Doherty found the 18-month sentence to be “manifestly unfit”and they imposed a far tougher, and entirely appropriate, four-year sentence.
 

Jarnhamar

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UK is going full retard.

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Halifax Tar

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Altair said:
I don't think the murdered care much about the motivating factor of their murderers.

Do you?

Ya, your right we should pay no attention.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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Altair said:
I don't think the murdered care much about the motivating factor of their murderers.

Do you?

Wow, that's deep. 

And yes, I do care.  Hopefully you'll never have to ponder those thoughts in your last moments on earth.
 

Altair

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Halifax Tar said:
Ya, your right we should pay no attention.
Yes and no. I don't pay attention to individual cases. A murder is a murder is a murder.

I care about the big picture.

jollyjacktar said:
Wow, that's deep. 

And yes, I do care.  Hopefully you'll never have to ponder those thoughts in your last moments on earth.
I imagine in my last moments of life I wont be placated by thinking this person is torturing me, mutilating me, causing unimaginable pain, ending my life, because of a business deal gone wrong as opposed to religious motivations.

I can imagine I would be just as distraught no matter why they were doing that to me.

I'm happy to hear that you would be more comfortable dying to a lunatic with a grudge than a person with a warped religious outlook.

What I do care about is the statistics. Are newcomers committing crimes at a much higher rate than the local population? I don't give a damn if a newcomer kills someone because of their religious beliefs or if they are high as kite on street drugs. I also don't give a damn if a local kills someone because of religious motivations or if they are high as a kite off of street drugs.

What matters is how much more likely(Or less likely) a newcomer is to commit a crime.

For example, which is better?

Example A.

New refugees or migrants have one murderer per one thousand individuals, but that one murderer is doing it for religious reasons, allah, honor killings, hates the west, whatever.

Example B. Local population has three murderers per one thousand individuals, but they are doing it for the "normal" reasons, psychotic breakdown, petty grudges, gang violence, crimes of passion.

For me, statistically speaking, I would prefer example A.  If they are killing less people overall, I don't care about the motivating factor for the reasons they are killing people.

Now these examples are made up gibberish that I made up. I am in no way suggesting that local populations are committing less crimes than these migrant populations. In fact, I believe the opposite to be true. But any statistic, story, article that states as much, points to that conclusion I am willing to listen to and act on. And I don't mean articles that say migrant communities are committing 1000% more honor killings than the local population. I mean, migrant populations are committing more rapes, murders, violent crimes than the local population.

These individual stories of muslims committing honor killings carry no weight with me, for one for one, I can find stories about local people committing horrendous crimes. Karla Homolka,  Paul Bernardo,  Andrea Giesbrecht, Robert Pickton, Derek Saretzky, Elizabeth Wettlaufer, Douglas Garland, and that's just those I can name off the top of my head.

Show me something saying refugees and immigrants are murdering people at a higher rate than locals and I'm all ears.

Show me the forest, not the trees.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Interesting enough the majority of the issues involve North Africans and people from the Stans. The Syrian refugees generally don't have the same attitude towards women as the others. It's in Europe's best interest to clean up and stabilize Libya so they can deport people back to there and prevent large numbers from coming. By refusing to support refugees indefinitely , you make the option less attractive and will remove economic refugees from the inflow, allowing the country to help refugees in real need.
 

Jarnhamar

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Show me the forest, not the trees.

I'd stay out of the forest if I were you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/migrant-crime-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3893436/Angela-Merkel-pressure-refugee-policy-revealed-migrants-committed-142-500-crimes-Germany-six-months-2016.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684302/1-200-German-women-sexually-assaulted-New-Year-s-Eve-Cologne-elsewhere.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3805103/migrant-sex-attacks-germany-doubled-3000-a-year/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/08/german-cops-we-were-ordered-to-remove-the-word-rape-from-migrant-criminal-report/
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/10/24/germany-hiding-muslim-crimes-only-17-sex-attacks-appear-in-the-police-crime-statistics/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3394161/Now-Swedish-police-accused-covering-sex-attacks-news-blackout-migrant-gang-surrounding-molesting-teenage-girls-music-festival.html
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/swedens-rape-crisis-isnt-what-it-seems/article30019623/comments/
 

PuckChaser

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Altair said:
For example, which is better?

Example A.

New refugees or migrants have one murderer per one thousand individuals, but that one murderer is doing it for religious reasons, allah, honor killings, hates the west, whatever.

Example B. Local population has three murderers per one thousand individuals, but they are doing it for the "normal" reasons, psychotic breakdown, petty grudges, gang violence, crimes of passion.

For me, statistically speaking, I would prefer example A.  If they are killing less people overall, I don't care about the motivating factor for the reasons they are killing people.

There's a flaw in your logic and example. It implies that Example B could be completely eliminated and we would only have a murder rate of 1/1000. What we have in fact is a murder rate of 4/1000, where 1/1000 (25% reduction) can arguably be handled with reduced immigration or no immigration from countries which incite/encourage that kind of violence. You will never stop any of those murders in Example B, so you reduce the murder rate where you can.
 
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jollyjacktar

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I'm afraid Altair, jmt and I shall always be at odds.  We each see flaws in each other's views. (as do others) To those who wish to carry on, feel free.  I'm done spinning circles, the field is yours.
 

Altair

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Jarnhamar said:
I'd stay out of the forest if I were you.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/25/migrant-crime-germany-rises-50-per-cent-new-figures-show/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3893436/Angela-Merkel-pressure-refugee-policy-revealed-migrants-committed-142-500-crimes-Germany-six-months-2016.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3684302/1-200-German-women-sexually-assaulted-New-Year-s-Eve-Cologne-elsewhere.html
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3805103/migrant-sex-attacks-germany-doubled-3000-a-year/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/08/german-cops-we-were-ordered-to-remove-the-word-rape-from-migrant-criminal-report/
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2016/10/24/germany-hiding-muslim-crimes-only-17-sex-attacks-appear-in-the-police-crime-statistics/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3394161/Now-Swedish-police-accused-covering-sex-attacks-news-blackout-migrant-gang-surrounding-molesting-teenage-girls-music-festival.html
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/swedens-rape-crisis-isnt-what-it-seems/article30019623/comments/
yes, and those are all far more sensible articles to post than the one story here, one story there of a individual engaging in barbaric acts due to religion.

Again, I never once doubted that these migrants would bring in higher crime rates, especially with how little getting they underwent getting into Europe. But that's the story here IMHO.

PuckChaser said:
There's a flaw in your logic and example. It implies that Example B could be completely eliminated and we would only have a murder rate of 1/1000. What we have in fact is a murder rate of 4/1000, where 1/1000 (25% reduction) can arguably be handled with reduced immigration or no immigration from countries which incite/encourage that kind of violence. You will never stop any of those murders in Example B, so you reduce the murder rate where you can.
also missing in that is that most migrant/refugee/immigrant crimes are committed against other migrant, refugee and immigrant communities.

So while bringing in more potential criminals, one is also bringing in more victims as well.

I'm all for keeping criminals out, but are we by that same token also willing to keep potential victims out as well?

I really have no horse in this race other than to say that these individual cases people keep bringing up don't impress me much.
jollyjacktar said:
I'm afraid Altair, jmt and I shall always be at odds.  We each see flaws in each other's views. (as do others) To those who wish to carry on, feel free.  I'm done spinning circles, the field is yours.
:cdnsalute:
 
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