Tour After Tour After Tour - The Reality of PTSD.

[NUTTS]

Anyone get back to Canada messed-up? See 'civiland'-Canadians as sheep?  I was surprised to find out how many of us really bury our feelings of what we endured time and time again.  Years of lies we tell ourselves, deception rather than facing our demons, while all along we ignore an overwhelming feeling that our clothes just don't 'fit' us anymore.  We don't talk very much about it, if at all.  We want it to disappear and for a while we manage to convince ourselves that it does. Just to oneday have it come back like a nightmare we can't shake...Anyone?

25-30% of us will never be the glowing-faced brown-nosing imbiciles we were ever again because we don't talk about what the hell is bothering us and everything in our lives will eventually come crashing down like a house of cards if we don't.  Spouse's, children, associated family, work, friends. 

All new members should know that if you dive into pig ****, you don't come out clean.

If anyone wants to talk, this is one place you can do it.

Pro Patria

 

[manhole]

It's time the government did something about the recruiting process so the same personnel are not doing tour after tour after tour..........it's taking too much of a toll on our service people and their families........and there are not enough resources in place to help those affected.......but you are among friends here and we are good listeners.......thank you for your service

Ubique

 

[mike_l]

Have you ever noticed that if you dream of something, until it actually happens you don't know what it is actually like.  Let's just say I know what a car bomb explosion is like.  As well as getting part of my arm partly blown off.  Yeah............well...........bit more time with the shrinks. :blotto:

 

[NUTTS]

Yeah............well...........bit more time with the shrinks. :blotto:

You might think that they don't know anything. That they can't identify with it. ...and you're right! But talking to your family and friends helps. You express yourself to them and you will find you relieve yourself over time. And above all else, don't blame yourself.  Better solution than driving into buildings, don't you think?(Hint,hint) 

 

[Jay4th]

This thread hits close to home as this has affected people close to me and  in the coming months with the return of Edmonton soldiers may affect many more..  My 2 cents worth of advice is directed at no-one in particular but I do hope anyone reading it heeds it.
    Several times over the next year, returned soldiers will have to fill out a questionaire from the mental health people.  Many will see this as a nuisance, some will think it a joke, but even more will be afraid of it.  Many soldiers will say what they think Mental health wants to hear or paint a false rosy picture because they fear emotional problems may have career implications. If you lie, mislead or gloss over the questionaires you and your family will surely suffer.  For the cynical among you (myself included) if you are a mess later in life and put a claim in after saying everything was fine for years.  They are gonna say "the member has no history of this" and you may be screwed.
Tell the truth on the surveys, go see the head people when you feel the need.  Nobody will think any less of you.  To hell with them if they do.

 

[tomahawk6]

Ran across this article today showing that women have less PTSD than men.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20060827.aspx

 

[Kat Stevens]

That's because the wimmin folk have that monthly pressure relief valve, that allows all the stress to blow out in a 360 blast radius of 50m or better in close quarters....Kinda like the boiler at the Overlook Hotel.... ;D

DISCLAIMER:  Humour only, not meant as an indictment of the entire gyno-human species, or their particular biological functions.

 

[the 48th regulator]

It took me over ten years to actually admit I was suffering, and to seek treatment.

Although my physicall wounds healed quickly, the mental ones festered.

Hey NUTTS, I think you and I have walked on the same dirt.  I went overseas with 1RCR in 1994, Charles company.  What about you?

dileas

tess

 

[Armymedic]

Tell the truth on the surveys, go see the head people when you feel the need.  Nobody will think any less of you.  To hell with them if they do.

+2 on that.

Medical people can not read your mind. You have to tell them if you need help, all we can do is read the signs and symptoms you present to us.

edited to add:

You should do a brief with a padre/social worker prior to getting home. You should see a MO/PA within the first few days of getting home, and then you should have your mental health interviews and questionaires once you return from post deployment leave. Take ownership of you life and deal with it sooner then later where it will be much more difficult to fix.

 

[Mindbender1234]

I believe that someone who has similar prior experiences should be part of the mental health interviews.  Do they really think that guys are going to fess up to the Padre and some ambiguous WO that only have a CD?  It might just add a little credibility to the whole process.

 

[GAP]

I believe that someone who has similar prior experiences should be part of the mental health interviews.  Do they really think that guys are going to fess up to the Padre and some ambiguous WO that only have a CD?  It might just add a little credibility to the whole process.

+1  generally isn't going to happen. If someone was there that had been there done that, the interpretation gets across accurately, otherwise everything is interpreted in "safe" Canadianeze experience, because they have nothing else to go on. Not a slag, simple fact.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Gents,

PTSD manifests itself much time after the actual incident.  It is made worse by the treatment one gets afterwards.  Although the initial interviews are fine and dandy, which I went through, it was the follow up treatment that sucked.  As there was absolutely none.  This is what caused the disorder to manifest itself in me, and get worse over time.

dileas

tess

 

[Kat Stevens]

After 4 CERs first tour in Yugo 91, there was no after deployment anything..... Crap in a bag, pee in a jar, give a blood sample, have a nice life.  Things appear to be headed in the right direction in an effort to head it off at the pass. More yet to be done, but definitely improving.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

The hardest part of the process may not be getting the help (if there are centres nearby) or even going through the process but actually admitting to yourself that you may have a problem. In the past (up till the mid nineties or later even) many of us, myself included, were quick to peg certain guys in our lines with names like scammer, shirker, MIR commando or non-hacker. This was due to a lack of understanding by us and indeed the whole CF at large. Now that we know and understand this problem we are starting to deal with it, hoping to get these people well again.

As posted by msnoddon who believed that there should be folks out there who have walked in our shoes be part of the healing process. This was a problem at first as I believe there was a lack of knowledge and resources available within the CoC. It could have been that there was simply not enough folks with enough experience in dealing with modern soldiers returning from FRY, Africa and lately Afstan displaying the symptoms of OSI/PTSD.

There is another answer out there that is available to those who suffer from this.

There are Operational Trauma and Stress Support Centers (OTSSC's) at some military bases to help CF members in coping with the effects of operational stress. Halifax, Ottawa, Valcartier, Edmonton, Esquimalt and I believe Pettawawa as well. You can call Canadian Forces Member Assistance Program (CFMAP) 24/7  (1-800-268-7708).

Now for the important one.
Based at The Centre is another innovative resource available to serving and former CF members and their families. The Operational Stress Injury Social Support (OSISS) program. OSISS is specifically targeted to the needs of those suffering from an OSI as well as for their families. This social support network will have CF members affected by operational stress injuries, such as PTSD, to help develop and provide social support services (including peer support). OSISS is also mandated to assist the CF in better understanding OSIs and shift negative attitudes and the stigma many have towards these types of conditions. OSISS has now gradually started to deliver educational and professional development modules CF wide with the aim of changing attitudes and creating a more supportive environment for those affected by OSIs. OSISS is a long-term program and it is being developed and run by CF members and Veterans of military operations as well as families of members who have experienced an OSI .

I pulled this off the DVA website for anyone who wants to get further info. They do promise confidentiality for those who are concerned with this.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Now for the important one.
Based at The Centre is another innovative resource available to serving and former CF members and their families. The Operational Stress Injury Social Support (OSISS) program. OSISS is specifically targeted to the needs of those suffering from an OSI as well as for their families. This social support network will have CF members affected by operational stress injuries, such as PTSD, to help develop and provide social support services (including peer support). OSISS is also mandated to assist the CF in better understanding OSIs and shift negative attitudes and the stigma many have towards these types of conditions. OSISS has now gradually started to deliver educational and professional development modules CF wide with the aim of changing attitudes and creating a more supportive environment for those affected by OSIs. OSISS is a long-term program and it is being developed and run by CF members and Veterans of military operations as well as families of members who have experienced an OSI .

Phenomenall group, I can not say enough how much they helped, and are staffed by former members, who have suffered.

dileas

tess

 

[Wookilar]

I had never heard of the OSISS until a ret'd WO (from the Strats, I think) came to speak with my course while I was on BOTP this summer. Talked for awhile, presented some info, watched some vids. The lights came on and I looked around. About half of our future leaders were asleep, a quarter were goofing off and the other quarter paid attention. About par. Myself and two others were a little pale, sweaty and didn't feel all that good (for some odd, strange reason  :). I only had about 10 minutes to speak with buddy, but it was enough. Very impressed with what they have put in place in a relatively short time frame.
  It's good to know that there is a group of people that know exactly what it's like to feel that way. Talking to some civy behavioural psychologist in his fancy office overlooking the legislature just didn't cut it for me.

 

[NUTTS]

Here's a small list of symptoms for OSI's:

* Intrusive thoughts or images about the event
* Dreams or nightmares about an event or similar events
* Flashbacks or illusions about the event
* Distress when reminded of the event
* Physical arousal (becoming physically upset) when reminded of the event
* Avoidance of thoughts or talk about the event
* Avoidance of activities or people that are reminders of the event
* Inability to recall important aspects of event (not explained by loss of consciousness)
* Emotional detachment from others
* Restricted emotions
* Sense of foreshortened future (fear of the future or death in the future)
* Insomnia
* Irritability or anger
* Difficulty concentrating
* Hypervigilance (always on guard)
* Exaggerated startle response (too easily startled or scared)

PTSD always felt like a lable stuck on me which I thought might as well read 'mentally ill',  I thought I was the only one. I thought I was weak and feeble. That no one else seemed to be suffering so I'd better get my shit wired together tight and quick. Never realizing that phychological injuries due to high amounts of traumatic stress are extremely common so I ignored the problem for 12 years.

The thing was, I don't remember alot bothering me at the time. We did it and that's that, big deal.  We laughed and made alot of sadistic jokes lightening the mood around us, I guess. We leaned on each other.  But I do remember the first night back being freaked-out by the eerie sound of silence and constantly had to remind myself of where I actually was.  Anxiety was my new best friend.  I got to know insomnia pretty well too cause I couldn't quit replaying every moment in my head and when I did get to sleep I couldn't quit reliving it.  Man, all of a sudden things bothered me all the time.  But yet, I wouldn't tell you about it!  You'd call me soft and I won't allow that... so....Meet my Representitve!

After years of deception, I oneday, after a nasty fight with my wife over nothing,(we were pretty much near our end) I started talking.  I mean I didn't care about much but I did care about her. So I started talking and man,... I had no idea just how angry I really was until that day.  It took months for me to tell it all cause I couldn't stand it sometimes.  She has nothing to compare it too but she walked with me the entire time.  I'm astonished how much better I feel.  I can now painfully see that my anger clouded my perception, perspective and judgement of everything in my life.  It became comfortable to me and I enjoyed nothing.  I appreciated nothing.  I had a hard time remembering things and would not accept blame.  I was unreliable and inconciderate.  I still have my moments, but for the most part, I find I appreciate life again.  I can sincerely laugh with my family now after having that heavy phychological blanket taken off me.  And as she put it, it's like the real me finally came home.

You know what bothers me now?   I'll never get back the 12 yrs it took me to do it.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I never had a problem, everyone else did...... until I found myself with a knee on my 17 year old son's chest, and both hands locked on his throat, with no recollection of how I came to be there.  I walked over to the MP shack, and said "lock me up, I'm dangerous".  They refused, so I went drinking... They came and found me 4 hours later, transported me to the EPS lockup, and had me charged with assault.  Things went to hell pretty quick from there, ordered into shacks, etc....won't bore you with the rest....

 

[Armymedic]

I believe that someone who has similar prior experiences should be part of the mental health interviews.  Do they really think that guys are going to fess up to the Padre and some ambiguous WO that only have a CD?  It might just add a little credibility to the whole process.

Perhaps this is what they are attempting to do. And perhaps you should expand your horizons a bit...whose to say that the person sitting across from you whom may not have been on your mission has not seen things similar in other places?

Most of the Padres in the brigades have tour time. Many of the social/mental health people have been to Afghanistan for roughly 3 months stints.

 

[Mindbender1234]

Perhaps this is what they are attempting to do. And perhaps you should expand your horizons a bit...whose to say that the person sitting across from you whom may not have been on your mission has not seen things similar in other places?

Because chances are that if he only has one gong hanging off his CF's he hasn't been anywhere longer than 30 days.  Don't get me wrong, tours aren't the say all and end all of a person's level of competence, far from it.  Chances are you have an idea of the person's background that's interviewing you, and if not, that further reinforces what I am trying to say.

My point wasn't that one should speak only with those who were on the same mission, but simply that a little relevant background would help.  There's a bit of a generation gap between a buck private and the MWO, and I doubt during the interview he's going to start opening up about all the after-effects he is experiencing.  So a facilitator who has been in a similar situation might help some people to open up.