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Trudeau U.S. visit delivers wake-up call about new North American reality

Halifax Tar

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Another example of Trudeau shooting himself in both our feet.

It's astonishing, and irresponsible, that he would say something like that right after Biden kicked him/ us in the metaphorical junk....



U.S. admiral warns of China threat and urges allies to work and train more closely​

Admiral John Aquilino says U.S. allies should move more urgently in face of evolving military situation​


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has said Canada has no plans to acquire nuclear submarines of its own and dismissed the deal involving the United States, Australia and the United Kingdom as only being about selling defence hardware.


He's not wrong...
 

daftandbarmy

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Canada does protectionism, too. Perhaps some of it can be negotiated away on both sides. We should unilaterally drop our own protectionism regardless. As for the rest, let exporters manage their own businesses.

Good heavens, no we don't!

Oh, wait, what's this? From 2018....

Why Donald Trump Is Absolutely Obsessed With Canadian Dairy Protectionism​


Many in Canada complain that the system, which dates back to the 1970s, is an anachronism that lets the country’s shrinking number of dairy farmers profit on the backs of everyday families. Canadians pay far more for their milk than Americans, and the policy is especially burdensome for the poor; one recent estimate suggested, for instance, that lower-income households end up spending an extra $339 a year for groceries due to supply management. But the policy has survived because Canada’s 11,000 dairy farmers are a powerful interest group overwhelmingly located in the politically influential provinces of Quebec, where Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is from, and Ontario. The issue is so sensitive that Canadian dairy and poultry were entirely exempted from the North American Free Trade Agreement’s tariff reductions. As the Toronto Star’s editorial board put it last year: “The folly of our continued commitment to supply management is widely accepted in policy circles, yet it persists in part because risk-averse politicians fear the purportedly powerful dairy farmers lobby.”

 

CBH99

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But we won’t, and we’ll also give in to Huawei, because the PM is beholden to a communist dictator. That some think that cozying up to a communist dictatorial regime is a better plan than resolving some issues we have with our largest trading partner proves how much some people are beguiled by hollow words and the occasional tear or two.
While our relationship may not be perfect - we have far far far more in common with the US than we do with China.

Plus our collective North American culture, geography, families with members in both countries, etc - we should focus on repairing what can be repaired more than anything else.


Question for whoever feels like sharing their opinion - the part about our PM being beholden to a communist dictator… why does it seem that way?

(I, for one, agree that he seems to bend to China far too easily and far too often. I understood not wanting to put his foot down too hard due to the ‘2 Michaels’ saga, and didn’t want to rock the boat until they were released. But now? 🤨🤷🏼‍♂️)
 

Weinie

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While our relationship may not be perfect - we have far far far more in common with the US than we do with China.

Plus our collective North American culture, geography, families with members in both countries, etc - we should focus on repairing what can be repaired more than anything else.


Question for whoever feels like sharing their opinion - the part about our PM being beholden to a communist dictator… why does it seem that way?

(I, for one, agree that he seems to bend to China far too easily and far too often. I understood not wanting to put his foot down too hard due to the ‘2 Michaels’ saga, and didn’t want to rock the boat until they were released. But now? 🤨🤷🏼‍♂️)
Follow the money. Look at how many former high ranking Liberals (Chretien, Manley) etc are serving on Chinese boards and advisory committees. Look at the Desmarais family and Power Corp. Coincidence?
 

Haggis

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(I, for one, agree that he seems to bend to China far too easily and far too often. I understood not wanting to put his foot down too hard due to the ‘2 Michaels’ saga, and didn’t want to rock the boat until they were released. But now? 🤨🤷🏼‍♂️)
There are dozens if not hundreds of "Michaels-in-waiting" still in China to be used as influencers in the future.
 

CBH99

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Follow the money. Look at how many former high ranking Liberals (Chretien, Manley) etc are serving on Chinese boards and advisory committees. Look at the Desmarais family and Power Corp. Coincidence?
I’ve got some interesting digging to do today. Thanks for those leads, I wouldn’t have even known to where to start when it comes to those.


There are dozens if not hundreds of "Michaels-in-waiting" still in China to be used as influencers in the future.
I was quite surprised when I heard how many Canadians are in prison in China.

If an ex-diplomat can be snatched up and held for that long, and provided with minimal access to consular services even under such global public media scrutiny - any Canadian there can be fair game.

I sure as heck wouldn’t risk it.
 

Good2Golf

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There are dozens if not hundreds of "Michaels-in-waiting" still in China to be used as influencers in the future.
THIS! Absolutely this!

When has the United States ever indiscriminately incarcerated Canadian citizens on trumped up charges in such blatantly transactional human hostage taking?

Anyone who truly thinks that China would be a measurably better trading partner than the US is either willfully ignorant of reality, or incredibly naive and sadly influenced by a cult of personality of the current PM…the very one who respects controlling aspects of a dictatorship.
 

Good2Golf

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I’ve got some interesting digging to do today. Thanks for those leads, I wouldn’t have even known to where to start when it comes to those.
As @Weinie notes, absolutely take a look at the Power Corporation of Canada.

If you ever wonder where the Laurentian Elites keep their wealth, look no further.

Oh look, there’s a little box down in the lower right corner…China AMC.
1637595357754.jpeg

Power Corp owns directly and indirectly (through IGM) 27.8% of China AMC. Let’s see…$245BILLION x 27.8% = $68.1 BILLION.

So….the Laurentians and friends in PCC have at least $68,000,000,000 of ownership of Chinese asset management in China.

Anybody wonder why Trudeau and Chretien and the Demarais family (one of whom is Chrietien’s son-in-law) and others are so beholden to China? @Weinie and others were indeed correct…follow the money…

G2G

ps. Attached Power Corp’s 2020 Annual Report for those interested in getting more insight to the flow of wealth affecting Canada and China…
 

Attachments

  • Power Corp Cda - Ann Rpt -2020-en.pdf
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Edward Campbell

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First, Altair is quite right: we should diversify our trade; we should have diversified our trade 50 years ago when Mitchell Sharp suggested the "Third Option." But, for a whole host of reasons ~ one of the big ones being the influence that some corporations have on public policy ~ we didn't manage to do the right thing; and when, now and again, we did try, we didn't do things right.

Second, speaking of the influence that some corporations have on public policy, Weenie and G2G are right, too: Power Corporation and the Desmarais family are too powerful, too influential; too controlling. It's great that they are a successful company with global reach but when you have a government of bantamweights led by a featherweight then a heavyweight champion corporation exerts too much influence.
 

CBH99

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First, Altair is quite right: we should diversify our trade; we should have diversified our trade 50 years ago when Mitchell Sharp suggested the "Third Option." But, for a whole host of reasons ~ one of the big ones being the influence that some corporations have on public policy ~ we didn't manage to do the right thing; and when, now and again, we did try, we didn't do things right.

Second, speaking of the influence that some corporations have on public policy, Weenie and G2G are right, too: Power Corporation and the Desmarais family are too powerful, too influential; too controlling. It's great that they are a successful company with global reach but when you have a government of bantamweights led by a featherweight then a heavyweight champion corporation exerts too much influence.
Regardless of whether I agree with your positions or not (in this case, neither, as I don’t know enough to have an informed opinion) - they are always elegantly put, and I always enjoy reading them.

🥂
 

QV

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As @Weinie notes, absolutely take a look at the Power Corporation of Canada.

If you ever wonder where the Laurentian Elites keep their wealth, look no further.

Oh look, there’s a little box down in the lower right corner…China AMC.
View attachment 67260

Power Corp owns directly and indirectly (through IGM) 27.8% of China AMC. Let’s see…$245BILLION x 27.8% = $68.1 BILLION.

So….the Laurentians and friends in PCC have at least $68,000,000,000 of ownership of Chinese asset management in China.

Anybody wonder why Trudeau and Chretien and the Demarais family (one of whom is Chrietien’s son-in-law) and others are so beholden to China? @Weinie and others were indeed correct…follow the money…

G2G

ps. Attached Power Corp’s 2020 Annual Report for those interested in getting more insight to the flow of wealth affecting Canada and China…

These are clearly conflicts of interest that should bar these people, and anyone connected to them, from holding office and obtaining security clearances.
 

Good2Golf

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While tempting, I try to not infer that technically legal actions are similarly ethical. PPC is an audited company, and I have not seen evidence of its executive officers/staff doing anything illegal. That doesn’t mean I have to like how it or it’s many shareholders make money from such significant dealings with China. Not like, say, SNC Lavelin, where the conduct of some of its executives were on the public record as breaking numerous Canadian and international laws.
 

Weinie

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While tempting, I try to not infer that technically legal actions are similarly ethical. PPC is an audited company, and I have not seen evidence of its executive officers/staff doing anything illegal. That doesn’t mean I have to like how it or it’s many shareholders make money from such significant dealings with China. Not like, say, SNC Lavelin, where the conduct of some of its executives were on the public record as breaking numerous Canadian and international laws.
It is amazing what greed will do to some people, including acting in their own interests; Canadians be dammed.
 

Edward Campbell

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These are clearly conflicts of interest that should bar these people, and anyone connected to them, from holding office and obtaining security clearances.

In my opinion there would be nothing wrong with any of them running for office; being rich and/or successful and so on ought not to bar one from serving her or his country ~ even if the makeup of the current House of Commons and most provincial legislatures and city councils suggests otherwise. Ditto for a security clearance if a very rich person with bags of top-level experience in International trade and commerce applies for a job with the government.

What is problematical, for me, is the degree to which I think that some (actually many) of these smart, successful, rich and powerful people influence government without ever being elected or screened for conflict of interest or anything else.
 

QV

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Certain kinds of associations with specific countries should be red flags. There should be laws about this.
 

Kirkhill

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Follow the money. Look at how many former high ranking Liberals (Chretien, Manley) etc are serving on Chinese boards and advisory committees. Look at the Desmarais family and Power Corp. Coincidence?

Look at Maurice Strong (UN, China, Global Warming, Power, Trudeau, PetroFina, Dome Petroleum, Oil-for-Food Scandal, ROWPU.

 

Good2Golf

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What is problematical, for me, is the degree to which I think that some (actually many) of these smart, successful, rich and powerful people influence government without ever being elected or screened for conflict of interest or anything else.
This. 👍🏼

We see enough influence south of the border, but that is more direct to Senators and Congresspeople, but they’re elected and are at least held to account by the electorate. Canada has a level of back-room influence or likely more accurately described, manipulation, that sees personal or group interests championed outside of accountability to the citizens.

$0.02

G2G
 

Kirkhill

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In my opinion there would be nothing wrong with any of them running for office; being rich and/or successful and so on ought not to bar one from serving her or his country ~ even if the makeup of the current House of Commons and most provincial legislatures and city councils suggests otherwise. Ditto for a security clearance if a very rich person with bags of top-level experience in International trade and commerce applies for a job with the government.

What is problematical, for me, is the degree to which I think that some (actually many) of these smart, successful, rich and powerful people influence government without ever being elected or screened for conflict of interest or anything else.

The only problem, Ted, is that the French Revolution taught the lesson of the Tall Poppies. Better to stay out of sight and let others take the flak. It worked for Walpole and the British Prime Ministers - everybody focused on the Hanoverians while the Whigs ran the country.

Now people focus on Presidents and Prime Ministers and other elected officials while ....???
 

KevinB

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The only problem, Ted, is that the French Revolution taught the lesson of the Tall Poppies. Better to stay out of sight and let others take the flak. It worked for Walpole and the British Prime Ministers - everybody focused on the Hanoverians while the Whigs ran the country.

Now people focus on Presidents and Prime Ministers and other elected officials while ....???
Which goes to show that the current state of Western Democracy isn't nearly as transparent as a lot of people like to believe.

Down here there has been a lot of discussion about the constitutionality of Presidential Executive Orders (hint there is no codified authority for them to make an Order). What codification in Canadian laws are there for the PMO's office to be directing policy?
 
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