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UK Racist?



I was wondering, since when does a country not have a right to control immigration (excluding 1st nations of course :blotto: )

The head of Britain‘s race-relations commission has been branded a racist right-winger for suggesting that multiculturalism is failing and the country should strive toward more common values, reports the Observer.

Trevor Phillips, head of the Commission for Racial Equality, said in a newspaper interview that "multiculturalism suggests separateness" and that the U.K. should strive towards a more homogeneous culture with "common values ... the common currency of the English language, honoring the culture of these islands, like Shakespeare and ****ens."

The idea of imposing British values on the country‘s different racial groups was likened by one MP, Keith Vaz, to the work of Christian missionaries.

"Britishness cannot be imposed on people of different races, cultures and religions," he said. "In Britain‘s multicultural society differences are celebrated, not exploited."
The man actually had the balls to suggest the truth! Too bad his own government won‘t back him.
Slim, do you think Canada should thrive towards a more homogeneous society?
Originally posted by absent_element:
[qb] Slim, do you think Canada should thrive towards a more homogeneous society? [/qb]
I think we should.

I favour the ‘melting-pot‘ over the ‘salad bowl‘ ideology when it comes to new arrivals. Let‘s stop calling people by hyphenated nationalities for starters. There should be no ‘Russian-Canadians‘ or ‘Somali-Canadians‘ or ‘Chinese-Canadians‘, just ‘Canadians‘, plain and simple. For example; If you want call yourself a Spanish person and speak Spanish, move to Spain.

Multi-culturalism is a myth that has been forced down our throats for 30 odd years in Canada starting with the trudeau liberals. Different groups of people with different beliefs rarely get along, just look at history. H*ll, alot of the new arrivals don‘t share the white liberal views of ‘multi-culturalism‘ that some people think they do. They just wind up brigning old world tensions over here. Just look at some of the racially motivated gang wars going on in T.O. and Vancouver.

Suggesting that multi-culturalism doesn‘t work isn‘t being racist at all, in my opinion it‘s being realist. France is a fine example of a multi-cultural and multi-lingual society that today is one of the most homogeneous places on the planet.

As for the writer of the article: Denouncing someone as a ‘racist‘ or anything else is a liberal tactic to discredit anyone who doesn‘t fall in line with liberal beleifs.

Maybe Clasper can address this better than I can, and maybe I‘m even wrong, but my short stay in France a few weeks ago has pretty much convinced me that it is NOT a homogeneous nation at all. Let‘s not forget about that headscarf ban and the associated public debate that they‘re having over there. That doesn‘t sound to me like one of the trappings of a truly homogeneous nation.
Well, IMHO, France is a more homogeneous society than Canada. The three tenets of the revolution (liberté, egalité, fraternité) seem to hold pretty well, and fraternité is the kicker. The idea is that all Frenchman should feel fraternal towards each other, and shouldn‘t think of themselves as African-French, Vietnamese-French, etc.

In recent years, there has been an increase in isolationism among certain communities in France. (I‘ve read Wes complaining about the same thing in Australia.) The French government is making an effort to reintegrate these communities. For example, the Chinese New Year parade was held down the Champs Elysées this year for the first time, instead of in Chinatown. The ban on hijabs in school is a (misguided) attempt to make seperate communities within France feel more fraternal towards each other and reduce isolationism.

So while Paris is one of the world‘s most multicultural cities, most naturalized citizens think of themselves as French. I ran into many more hyphenated nationalities in Toronto than I have in Paris, even though at a glance, the cities are roughly equally diverse.
Every French sailor I met when they were in town was clearly of a different ehtnic background, but all of them referred to themselves as French first and foremost.

Melting pot..not so good.
Multi-Culuralism...also not so good.

I don‘t know if gang-wars and the like would stop if we gravitated towards a melting pot; Melting pot was the idea behind the new york immigrant wave, and that produced it‘s own share of problems.

I would have to disagree that melting pot is more realist than multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is an attempt at least addressing the obvious differences between Canadians of different origins, whereas a melting pot society could be interpreted as a supression of different backgrounds, and generally a supression can‘t last that long.

Sort of one of those, you‘re ****ed if you do, you‘re ****ed if you don‘t situations.

But discrediting someone as racist for trying to establish a set of common values and beliefs in a country is just uber-liberal and not particularly valid.
To me, the melting pot idea says that we do not accept or acknowledge any culture but "our own" . That being some kind of Anglo-saxon protestant sort of thing. A thriving culture is one that constantly grows and adapts. Otherwise it stagnates and dies.This idea of establishing a set of cultural norms and then forcing everyone to conform is frightening at best. You need to reread your twentieth century history to remind yourself of the dangerous paths this can lead to. Our culture is growing and vibrant as we continue to accept different and diverse peoples into it. And make no mistake, this is our Canadian culture. You just have to take a step back and really look at it to see it. The mosaic, in its present form, is not perfect. But it is a start, and in the long run, stands a better chance to prevail than the melting pot.
I couldn‘t agree with you more S_Baker.

If you don‘t agree with the values of a country stay the **** out. What could be simpler than that?
Unfortunately it is not so simple for the Native people living in North America before we got here. They have nowhere else to go.
Originally posted by S_Baker:
[qb] The problem with Canada‘s "multicultuarlism" is that a sizeable majority of people coming to Canada do not believe in the same things you and I do. Respect for other religions, respect for other peoples differences, respect for our western way of life. [/qb]
I live in a heavily multicultural neighbourhood here in Calgary and I see all those characteristics every day, both from the majority and the minority. We do respect each other. We all have the same goals in life: to be sucessful, happy and safely raise families. The only difference I can see is that we all eat different styles of food, and even then, there‘s a fair bit of mixing up

[qb] Please see all that has been said about the Pakistani "Al Qaeda" family, they despise western culture, condem us as being decadent, etc...well my answer to that is F U, don‘t come! I don‘t like Saudi Arabia, you don‘t see me emmigrating legally or illegally there....

My opinion is if you want to come to a western country you must embrace its values (without loosing your own identity), otherwise don‘t come... [/qb]
And I agree with you there on the Al Qaeda family, but not every immigrant familiy belongs to a terrorist group. Many, many more people come to Canada (and the US) because they are trying to escape terrorists, dictators and war torn countries.

Terrorists such as Al Qaeda are a minute minority among minorities. Yes, there will always be those who abuse immigration laws, and come to our countries seeking to leach off the system and possibly plan against us, but lets not forget that there were still spies and communist supporters here during the cold war. This is nothing new.
In my view there are, broadly speaking, two flavours of multicultural policy:

1) We suffer / tolerate / ignore / enjoy each other‘s private cultural practices.

2) We force each other to share cultural values.

Multiculturalism does not necessarily improve tolerance; tolerance must exist for multiculturalism to be strifeless. As long as respect is mutually accorded, there will be minimal problems. If any group demands recognition of its culture while steadfastly refusing to recognize others, there will be many problems. You can decide for yourself whether you believe there are any cultural groups which tend to practice unidirectional multiculturalism.

What does it mean for a politician to speak of "British" values or "Canadian" values? Does he mean forcing immigrants to eat bangers and mash or poutine, or rather of forcing them to accept and practice rule of law, equality before the law, universality of human rights and freedoms, etc?

I believe that a society uninterested in affording duties and responsibilities absolute precedence over rights and privileges, or which fails to firm[ly] insist everyone abide by its core legal and social principles, will eventually fail.
Its not immigration anymore. They are colonising! The poor UK is being held hostage thru the kindness, nieveity, and political correctiveness of their government. Look at the recent ‘loyal immigrants‘ who planned to blow up a shopping centre in London this week! Its out of control.

The sewer gates have opened, the shyte has flowed, and its too late.

I view the UK as a big giant Titanic, as I know many who have lived there all their lives and see their homeland has been raped by these ‘assylum seekers‘ who came from the shyteholes of the earth. Now the real English want to migrate to other countries.

Its really sad.

Abandon ship!


As for Sydney, in recent years we have seen our culture attacked, here is a few examples from the Christmas period alone...

- No Nativity scences in shopping centres in areas where some non-Christians live

- No Santa Claus at some shopping centres either

- No Santas as some schools or Christmas parties

- No Christmas decorations put up by councils in areas where some ‘non‘ Christians live

- No Christmas or Easter programs on the TV

- the ever increasing crimes of hatred against western women and men, and young men who are attacked by large groups of ‘others‘.

- on the news, Christmas Day is now referred to as a day "when Christians believe Christ was born". Not that I am a religious person, but this is getting out of hand!

- No ANZAC Day celebrations for fear of offending other cultures! Thats a shocker!

In Melbourne an elected muslim mayor wanted to ban all pork products from the suburb.

In Sydney, a public pool was closed to the general public so only muslim women could swim

The changing of the Boy Scouts uniform, because it looked to military, not to offend other cultures who came from a war torn country. Their shirts are now BLUE T shirts BTW!

At the Sydney Easter Show last week, a group of 50 muslim youth clapping and chanting ALLAH ACKBAR ran amok thru the show (big fair) stealing and even beating a handicapped man up, finally stabbing an Aussie man (attacked at random) in the head with a screw driver infront of a group of children. They dispersed before the police could catch them.

The list goes on and on, and this from the top of my head.

We too are being ‘colonised‘ with PLO demonstrations in the streets, Pro OBL slogans painted on Jewish property, Also property has been burned, and cars destroyed.

No we too have to deal with terrorism from within our shores, and many arrests have been made. Recently a man of Pakistani origin was arrested on terr charges, and is now at the Super Max at Golburn Gaol!

There are about 240,000 Indiginous Aussies (Aboriginies), and around 450,000 muslims (with a small exception most who have come out here the past 20yrs or so, and more even the past 10 yrs), over 300,000 living in Sydney alone. I have walked the streets of my own city and had some very bad looks. Pretty sad when one feels that in his own country.

However at least our govt has the BALLS to become hardline with assylum seekers and people coming in illegally. we know its too,late now, but now we shelf em off shore until they are booted out and sent packing. Its a rare occasion now to have a boatload of ME DPs coming thru now, and when they do, its off to Christmas Island, and the CAPT of the vessel in question is arrested and sent to gaol for years.

Australia has had a big giant gutful of the lot, adn is becoming LESS tolorant everyday!

What are our countries going to be like for our kids, or worse our kids kids?

Remember I am just passing the info on, so dont shoot the messanger, as I am sure a few ‘bleeding heart do gooder snivel libertarians‘ will have a read and brand me something I am NOT.


Wesley H. Allen, CD:

While I agree with many of the things you have said in other threads regarding anti terrorist actions, etc, and while, frankly, I did sign the online petition regarding the Khadrs, I think that the above few posts show a blanket hatred for immigrants on your part, and I don‘t agree with that at all.

I don‘t know you personally, of course, so maybe I‘m completely wrong, but reading those posts, it seems to me that you‘re concerned because immigrants don‘t conform exactly to your lifestyle, religious beliefs, etc. I think its actually pretty ridiculous to be getting worked up about a lack of Santas in malls at Christmastime. And so that you know, 25 Dec is actually not Jesus‘ actual birthdate, and that fact is fairly widely known. You can read about the issue for yourself at the following website, which is run by a Christian research group, so don‘t think that this is an anti Christian conspiracy of any sort:

You‘re entitled to your opinion, of course, but I really don‘t understand why some of the things you‘ve listed above anger you so much.
Fair enough pal, you have an opinion too, but you are obviously not effected by such happenings. So unless yo live it, and see it think twice before you post. If you want to keep teh blinders on thats okay with me.

I am not really angry about it, i recognise the problem, thats all. And it is a BIG problem here.

Remember the Bali bombings of 12 Oct 2002, when 202 people were killed by radical Islamics ( seems we all think about Spain). Of the 202 89 were Australians on holiday and many from my own suburb, who were only gulirty of having a few drinks with family and friends. Whole families were vapourised. When was the last time Canada had 89 civvy people killed in a terror bombing? I hope never. Its a different kettle of fish here.

Remember that befoer you try to chastise me!

Personally I think it sad when our Christma time is disrupted by such ongoing, and if you think its silly to see your culture put aside, then speak to other Australians!

As I said, I am only the messanger, so dont go taking a shot at me for telling you the truth about whats going on here.


I do remember the Bali bombing, and that‘s why I said that I agree with many of the anti terrorist comments you‘ve made. I think we can both agree that the terrorists responsible are criminals of the worst kind, as are the people responsible for the various acts of violence you described in those posts. It wasn‘t every immigrant that committed those acts though, so as convenient, and at times, tempting as it is to do so, it isn‘t fair to blame them all for it.

Also with regards to this statement made by you:
"There are about 240,000 Indiginous Aussies (Aboriginies), and around 450,000 muslims (with a small exception most who have come out here the past 20yrs or so, and more even the past 10 yrs), over 300,000 living in Sydney alone. I have walked the streets of my own city and had some very bad looks. Pretty sad when one feels that in his own country".

The aboriginals were in Australia thousands of years before anyone else. So making mention of them in an anti immigration rant is, to me, nothing short of pure racism. And correct me if I‘m wrong, but aren‘t you a Canadian who moved to Australia? Aren‘t you yourself an immigrant? In that case, how is Sydney "your" city any more than it is anyone else‘s?

As for myself, I grew up in Vancouver, which, in the past 20 years or so, has had a massive influx of Chinese and other Asian immigrants. There are areas of Vancouver nowadays where Cantonese is the most commonly heard language. I know all about living in a city that has been swamped with immigrants. I suppose it can be a little unnerving to no longer be the dominant racial group. But it‘s something that has to be accepted, because times change, and not neccessarily for the worse. I don‘t think it‘s something to get worked up over.
Well I, for one, can understand some of the sentiments raised by Mr Allen, even though he clearly stated that he was just passing on info and not presenting a viewpoint. I took it as info to think about. I‘ve read the growing list of posts on this thread and I agree with some points and disagree with others. As stated previously by lostgrenadier, Canada has chosen the mosaic model of integration which sees it‘s society as a puzzle of various backgrounds. Compare this to the U.S.‘s melting pot model where new cultures are expected to adapt their previous background to a common society. Perhaps this is why the U.S. appears to be much more vocal about it‘s national pride. At any rate, I don‘t see the mosaic model as one that promotes a strong national identity. What you end up with is too many different "factions" fighting to promote their own interests. People can talk about living in peace together and understanding and respecting everyone‘s culture but the truth of the matter is that a group, be it political, racial, ethnic or religious, will always in the end look out for it‘s own interests. A mosaic society such as Canada‘s will never have complete unity in terms of political or moral ideals because everyone is all over the map with regards to who or what‘s right and wrong.

The funny thing is we as western society are so busy trying to accomodate those from other countries so that we don‘t offend them and so they feel welcome. Think about if one of us were to move to a hardline Muslim country, or any other strict culture for that matter, and only spoke english, ate hot dogs, had a few beers after work, tried to set up a Christian church and basically adopt a western style of living, I wonder how long their accomodating spirit would last.
As for our Indiginous brothers, I am referring to them simply as a qty in this case, comparing their population to the qty of migrants from another culture. So dont try reading between the lines. Australias population is what Canada‘s was 35 yrs ago (about 19 million).

As I said, I AM ONLY THE MESSENGER! So dont go shooting me between the eyes from the hip for no reason.

Yes, I am Canadian born, but I did not bring Canada with me, I left that behind. Although I never forget where I come from, and I am totally proud of that. If I am asked where I come from, I state I am Australian but born in Canada. Yes, my heritage is from Northern Ireland, but you dont see me supporting the IRA or the UDR, however I do enjoy St Patricks Day, like we all do.

I love going into Sydney‘s Chinatown. It great. very friendly people, and most humble to. There is no serious unrest and turbulance in our Asian communities, but its a different story in the muslim ghettos of Sydney‘s southwest. Sadly thats fact, not fiction. I am not pointing the finger at anyone, but SIMPLY just reporting what happens here. We cannot lie about the truth, can we.

I learned about the way things are here, and accepted the Australian culture, and I was accepted with open arms in return too. I EARNED my citizenship, and have adapted to society here, as many others have. I did not drag my culture here, nor try to force it upon others in any way, as others are tyring to do.

Have you ever been threatened, or had your girl friend spat at, and called as slut because her arms and legs were showing (when you are at the beach), or followed and abused by a dozen arabic speaking muslims? I have. What about some local boys who were hospitalised by a group of muslims just for being Australian? It happens all to often here.

There is a serious cultural issue down here which is continuing to constantly boil and overheat. Sadly is islam vs the rest( and I dont mean the west). We read about it in the papers and see it on the news. Again thats a fact. A group of muslim men attacked and killed 14 yr old Asian boy as he walked to a friends birthday party. He was murdered in cold blood because of teh colour of his skin.

Frankly, I wish we could all get along, and celebrate, enjoying our food and drink, but the reality of it all, thats not true. if you want to see islamic unrest in Sydney try www.islamicsydney.com and go to the forums for a small taste of what its like here.

Again dont go branding me something I am NOT. I simply want harmony and peace in my own country for all who live here, and for them to obey our laws as most od anyway, and if the others that come here want to fight, they can go to their homeland and do it.