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Ukraine - Superthread
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daftandbarmy
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Australia sharing retired F-18s with Ukraine.
Gee, I wonder if Canada has any of those it could spare?
Military experts back transferring Australia’s retired F/A-18 fighter jets to Ukraine, saying they would provide air cover for Ukrainian troops and help them consolidate any breakthroughs of Russian defensive lines.
The Australian Financial Review revealed on Tuesday talks were under way between the Australian, Ukrainian and US governments over providing the Classic Hornet aircraft instead of breaking them up for scrap.
With the Albanese government not dismissing the potential transfer, there were indications the long-planned counteroffensive had begun, with reports of Ukrainian forces probing for weak spots in the Russian lines.
Russia claimed it killed 250 Ukrainian troops in thwarting one large-scale attack, but this has not been verified. Ukraine’s deputy defence minister told local TV “the offensive is taking place in several directions” but did not say it was the start of the major counterattack.
A dam in Russian-held southern Ukraine across the Dnipro River was blown up early on Tuesday, unleashing a torrent of floodwater. Each side blamed the other for the damage.
While commercial-in-confidence requirements over the 41 Hornets’ disposal means details are being kept tightly held, the Defence Department did not dismiss the possibility of the RAAF’s planes being supplied to the Ukrainians.
“Defence continues to retain possession of former Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F/A-18A/B Hornets,” the department said in a statement.
“The Australian government remains committed to delivering on its current contribution to Ukraine.
“Australia continues to engage with the government of Ukraine and our allies and partners to ensure meaningful support continues to be provided to Ukraine in its ongoing battle against Russian aggression.”
The Financial Review understands the transfer of retired RAAF fighter jets would be done as a military sale rather than gift, although the cost would not be high given the age of the planes and likelihood they would be scrapped if not sold. The Ukrainians have the funds available to buy the planes.
After months of campaigning by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for fast jets, the US in late May agreed to allow foreign militaries to transfer American-made or designed fourth-generation aircraft to Ukraine. While the focus has been on F-16s, which are popular in Europe, the F/A-18s also fit this category.
Boeing, which took responsibility for helping maintain and upgrade the F/A-18 after merging with its designer McDonnell Douglas in the 1990s, would play a part with supplying mission packages for the jets.
Ukraine’s Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov on the weekend met Defence Minister Richard Marles and requested pilot training as part of fresh military assistance. Mr Reznikov said Australia would announce further support next month, but Anthony Albanese said aid would be confirmed when the government was ready.
Separately, The Sydney Morning Herald reported the government would supply Hawkei four-wheel-drives to Ukraine after the army had previously rejected doing so because of braking issues with the vehicles and an inability to sustain them on the frontline.
Strategic Analysis Australia director Michael Shoebridge, a former Defence Department official, said the Ukrainians successfully countered Russia’s purported air superiority but needed to be re-armed and resupplied now.
He said F/A-18s would “continue this protective air force bubble”, and with their own missiles and radars hit targets at longer range.
“If the Ukrainians make breakthroughs but don’t have air defences over the top, their forces could be destroyed by Russian aircraft,” he said.
“We are putting these things into museums when they are desperately needed by the Ukrainians to fight a war.”
Former army major-general Mick Ryan said a major problem for Ukraine was there were just not that many F-16s available to it from other countries.
“But the F/A-18s are available now. This is about levelling the playing field when it comes to air-to-air combat,” he said.
He said F/A-18s would be used to push back Russian jets capable of firing missiles away from the frontlines.
Liberal senator David Van, who chairs the federal parliament’s “Friends of Ukraine” group, said the Albanese government had embarrassed Australia by slipping down the league table of donors to Ukraine but welcomed potential supply of Hornets.
“The Classic Hornet would be a great jet for them,” he said.
www.afr.com
Gee, I wonder if Canada has any of those it could spare?
RAAF Hornet jets ‘better in a war zone than a museum’
Military experts back transferring Australia’s retired F/A-18 fighter jets to Ukraine, saying they would provide air cover for Ukrainian troops and help them consolidate any breakthroughs of Russian defensive lines.
The Australian Financial Review revealed on Tuesday talks were under way between the Australian, Ukrainian and US governments over providing the Classic Hornet aircraft instead of breaking them up for scrap.
With the Albanese government not dismissing the potential transfer, there were indications the long-planned counteroffensive had begun, with reports of Ukrainian forces probing for weak spots in the Russian lines.
Russia claimed it killed 250 Ukrainian troops in thwarting one large-scale attack, but this has not been verified. Ukraine’s deputy defence minister told local TV “the offensive is taking place in several directions” but did not say it was the start of the major counterattack.
A dam in Russian-held southern Ukraine across the Dnipro River was blown up early on Tuesday, unleashing a torrent of floodwater. Each side blamed the other for the damage.
While commercial-in-confidence requirements over the 41 Hornets’ disposal means details are being kept tightly held, the Defence Department did not dismiss the possibility of the RAAF’s planes being supplied to the Ukrainians.
“Defence continues to retain possession of former Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) F/A-18A/B Hornets,” the department said in a statement.
“The Australian government remains committed to delivering on its current contribution to Ukraine.
“Australia continues to engage with the government of Ukraine and our allies and partners to ensure meaningful support continues to be provided to Ukraine in its ongoing battle against Russian aggression.”
The Financial Review understands the transfer of retired RAAF fighter jets would be done as a military sale rather than gift, although the cost would not be high given the age of the planes and likelihood they would be scrapped if not sold. The Ukrainians have the funds available to buy the planes.
After months of campaigning by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for fast jets, the US in late May agreed to allow foreign militaries to transfer American-made or designed fourth-generation aircraft to Ukraine. While the focus has been on F-16s, which are popular in Europe, the F/A-18s also fit this category.
Boeing, which took responsibility for helping maintain and upgrade the F/A-18 after merging with its designer McDonnell Douglas in the 1990s, would play a part with supplying mission packages for the jets.
Ukraine’s Defence Minister Oleksii Reznikov on the weekend met Defence Minister Richard Marles and requested pilot training as part of fresh military assistance. Mr Reznikov said Australia would announce further support next month, but Anthony Albanese said aid would be confirmed when the government was ready.
Separately, The Sydney Morning Herald reported the government would supply Hawkei four-wheel-drives to Ukraine after the army had previously rejected doing so because of braking issues with the vehicles and an inability to sustain them on the frontline.
Strategic Analysis Australia director Michael Shoebridge, a former Defence Department official, said the Ukrainians successfully countered Russia’s purported air superiority but needed to be re-armed and resupplied now.
He said F/A-18s would “continue this protective air force bubble”, and with their own missiles and radars hit targets at longer range.
“If the Ukrainians make breakthroughs but don’t have air defences over the top, their forces could be destroyed by Russian aircraft,” he said.
“We are putting these things into museums when they are desperately needed by the Ukrainians to fight a war.”
Former army major-general Mick Ryan said a major problem for Ukraine was there were just not that many F-16s available to it from other countries.
“But the F/A-18s are available now. This is about levelling the playing field when it comes to air-to-air combat,” he said.
He said F/A-18s would be used to push back Russian jets capable of firing missiles away from the frontlines.
Liberal senator David Van, who chairs the federal parliament’s “Friends of Ukraine” group, said the Albanese government had embarrassed Australia by slipping down the league table of donors to Ukraine but welcomed potential supply of Hornets.
“The Classic Hornet would be a great jet for them,” he said.
RAAF Hornet jets ‘better in a war zone than a museum’
Canberra did not dismiss the prospect of transferring retired fighter jets to Ukraine, as military experts say they could be useful amid signs of a counter-offensive.
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Every time I see that set I find myself wondering if Darth Vader designed it. Are they consciously playing the Bad Guy role?
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An advantage to the older, lighter, amphibious LAV.... (Coyote-Bison LAV II)
Edit - 13 tonnes vs 17 tonne LAV III vs 20.6 to 28.6 tonne LAV 6.0
Halifax Tar
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That fish made the ultimate sacrifice in the service of Ukraine!
daftandbarmy
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It looks like the Russian Reserves run a BFT too....
Colin Parkinson
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Likley in the process of being recovered. Looks like an ARV upper right plowing a safe access to the vehicles. The 2A6 looks like a mobility kill, as do the Bradely's. I bet teams of American and German experts are going to want to inspect the damage to learn from it.
Mills Bomb
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I've talked to a lot of Second World War veterans and lots of top tier equipment (Of the time) was lost on D-Day and the start of major operations, they were ultimately going to lose Leopards, Bradley's, etc. so it's not really terribly surprising. Was it wise to use Leopards at this stage? I don't know?
Fingers crossed for a breakthrough, we'll see what happens when / if they reach the more elaborate Russian defences setup behind the front lines to prevent this attack. So far war mappers have confirmed what appears to be small gains in mostly empty fields, highest risks so far seems to be arty and mines.
Still no confirmation of who blew the dam, most likely Russia based on what we've seen so far but hard to say. Very strange they opted for that plan, some sources say they flooded many of their own defences, or maybe they just needed to pull reserves from those areas and buy time. Hopefully more concrete proof surfaces soon.
Fingers crossed for a breakthrough, we'll see what happens when / if they reach the more elaborate Russian defences setup behind the front lines to prevent this attack. So far war mappers have confirmed what appears to be small gains in mostly empty fields, highest risks so far seems to be arty and mines.
Still no confirmation of who blew the dam, most likely Russia based on what we've seen so far but hard to say. Very strange they opted for that plan, some sources say they flooded many of their own defences, or maybe they just needed to pull reserves from those areas and buy time. Hopefully more concrete proof surfaces soon.
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The more I look at the image, the more questions I have... I'm not saying it's falsified, but it doesn't look right to me.Likley in the process of being recovered. Looks like an ARV upper right plowing a safe access to the vehicles. The 2A6 looks like a mobility kill, as do the Bradely's. I bet teams of American and German experts are going to want to inspect the damage to learn from it.
Retired AF Guy
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You wouldn't happen to have the URL to the original photo?Likley in the process of being recovered. Looks like an ARV upper right plowing a safe access to the vehicles. The 2A6 looks like a mobility kill, as do the Bradely's. I bet teams of American and German experts are going to want to inspect the damage to learn from it.
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We might need to send another 8 tanksLikley in the process of being recovered. Looks like an ARV upper right plowing a safe access to the vehicles. The 2A6 looks like a mobility kill, as do the Bradely's. I bet teams of American and German experts are going to want to inspect the damage to learn from it.
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A minefield breach lane is always going to look ugly. We just never see it in training.
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