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Ukraine - Superthread

Dana381

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I suggested some time ago that we should send Ukraine all our M777s and begin training them on our LAVs.

I believe I read that one of the reasons that modern tanks weren't being shipped there was because there was some kind of agreement by NATO members not to do so. So instead I suggested we give our Leopards to Poland so they can ship Ukraine more of the Russian models they have in stock.

I'll reiterate what I said then. Our weapons and equipment do nothing to deter Russia while they are sitting in Canada. While Russia is tied up in Ukraine they don't have the strength to simultaneously launch a new attack against NATO so our military hardware equally has no real deterrent effect sitting in Latvia either. The only way right now for our artillery, LAVs and tanks can actually achieve the goal of deterring a militarily aggressive Russia is to give it to Ukraine so they can more effectively fight Russia on NATO's behalf. Give them our equipment and purchase heavier replacement equipment from the US to replace it (M109's, Abrams and eventually Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicles.

$0.02

That is likely China's master plan. NATO and other western countries deplete their war stocks supporting Ukraine against Russia so when China attacks Taiwan we have little left to help Taiwan with and therefore think twice. Putin played into Xi's plan like a good puppet. The only resource we arent depleting is the navies because we can't access the Black sea. Hence why China has been building and commissoning so many ships. Between their Navy and fishing boat militia they can encircle Taiwan and prevent any help getting into the country. I would not be suprised at all if China was helping both sides in order to prolong the war and deplete western arms supplies even more.

This is of course only my opinion and I have no evidence to back it up. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...
 

FJAG

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Reiterating what Gen Leslie said previously. Send the tanks and LAVs.
The more that I see NATO nations giving older kit to the Ukrainians and getting newer US, Brit or German kit as replacements, the more I think that we should ship all of our tanks and 3 battalions worth of LAVs to Ukraine and negotiate a US ABCT as per EIS as replacement. Hell, I'd be happy with an ARNG ABCT's gear.

🍻
 

McG

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If we want to send our new LAV fleet and buy replacements, then I am sure Ukraine could make could use of it. Why would we send our Leopard 2 fleet when it becomes actually combat ineffective after just using it for a two month exercise (where nobody is trying to destroy it)?
 

GR66

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That is likely China's master plan. NATO and other western countries deplete their war stocks supporting Ukraine against Russia so when China attacks Taiwan we have little left to help Taiwan with and therefore think twice. Putin played into Xi's plan like a good puppet. The only resource we arent depleting is the navies because we can't access the Black sea. Hence why China has been building and commissoning so many ships. Between their Navy and fishing boat militia they can encircle Taiwan and prevent any help getting into the country. I would not be suprised at all if China was helping both sides in order to prolong the war and deplete western arms supplies even more.

This is of course only my opinion and I have no evidence to back it up. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then...
How much use will our Leopards, LAVs and M777's be in defending Taiwan against a Chinese invasion?
 

Dana381

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How much use will our Leopards, LAVs and M777's be in defending Taiwan against a Chinese invasion?
Absolutly no use if they are destroyed by the Russians or worn out by the Ukrainians.

Anything that can shoot and that can make it to Taiwan can be a threat to China. If western countries send all their excess kit to Ukraine they won't have it to send to Taiwan.

If western countries send kit to Ukraine expecting new kit to replace it then China just needs to disrupt the factories making the new stuff. No country will send all their weapons they will keep a certain ammount to defend the homeland. If China depletes the extra kit by working to extend the ukraine war then there will be nothing to send to Taiwan or other countries.

China does not just want Taiwan they will not stop there. No one really knows their true intent but I would wager they have pretty grand ambitions.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I am sure GDLS will be happy to continue building new LAV 6's for the CAF to replace ones being shipped to Ukraine. NATO really needs a "Monkey Model" reliable MBT with at least a 120mm to build and supply Allies like Ukraine and others. Bog Standard Leopard 2 hull with a M1A1 turret. Germany builds the hull, UK the suspension, Canada tracks and wheels, Commercial engine.
 

The Bread Guy

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I am sure GDLS will be happy to continue building new LAV 6's for the CAF to replace ones being shipped to Ukraine. NATO really needs a "Monkey Model" reliable MBT with at least a 120mm to build and supply Allies like Ukraine and others. Bog Standard Leopard 2 hull with a M1A1 turret. Germany builds the hull, UK the suspension, Canada tracks and wheels, Commercial engine.
Makes sense, but would require more co-operation and will than is present right now.
 

KevinB

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I am sure GDLS will be happy to continue building new LAV 6's for the CAF to replace ones being shipped to Ukraine. NATO really needs a "Monkey Model" reliable MBT with at least a 120mm to build and supply Allies like Ukraine and others. Bog Standard Leopard 2 hull with a M1A1 turret. Germany builds the hull, UK the suspension, Canada tracks and wheels, Commercial engine.
So one country can twitch and disarm all of NATO…
I wouldn’t tie anything to Germany.
 

Colin Parkinson

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So one country can twitch and disarm all of NATO…
I wouldn’t tie anything to Germany.
To be part of the Contract you need to sign away some restrictions, would be the only way it would work. Then NATO appoints a group within itself to determine who can get them. Basically you want to build a modern Sherman, maybe not the best tank, but one capable of being built quickly, standardised bits.
Frankly I don't trust the US to be able to build a budget tank either, look at the C*****F**K that is the Light Tank Program. Germany is the only other country with significant industrial and technical knowhow. There was a time when Vickers would have been a good choice, but the brits, threw out the bath water, broke the tub, faucet and strangled the baby just to be sure.
 

daftandbarmy

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Who needs SAMs when you have sanctions …


In Russia, Western Planes Are Falling Apart​

After months of sanctions that have made critical repair parts difficult to access, aircraft operators are running out of options.

None of the experts WIRED spoke to said they’d rush to step onto a plane operating in Russia at the moment. Bilotkach—a Ukrainian national—equated it to taking international-facing Russian airlines that had significantly improved their safety records in the post-Soviet Union back 30 or more years. “Just look it up on Wikipedia,” he says. “They have a separate page for air crashes in the Soviet Union.”

 

Skysix

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Who needs SAMs when you have sanctions …


In Russia, Western Planes Are Falling Apart​

After months of sanctions that have made critical repair parts difficult to access, aircraft operators are running out of options.

None of the experts WIRED spoke to said they’d rush to step onto a plane operating in Russia at the moment. Bilotkach—a Ukrainian national—equated it to taking international-facing Russian airlines that had significantly improved their safety records in the post-Soviet Union back 30 or more years. “Just look it up on Wikipedia,” he says. “They have a separate page for air crashes in the Soviet Union.”

From 3 months ago...

 

The Bread Guy

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One way to ding USSR 2.0 ...
... with some leaks yet to be plugged
 

Skysix

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Why is the west so surprised? The stated aim all along from SU2.0 has been to eliminate Ukraine as a nation and people.

So 10-15 million flee, another million or so killed (military and civilian), another 15-20 million absorbed and distributed throughout Russia leaving only the 15 million or so ethnic Russians and collaborators to populate the captured landmass of the former Ukraine.

Actually that is fairly civilised of them compared to the Starvation strategy Stalin used in the SU1.0 version.
 

Kirkhill

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The partial removal of potentially trouble-making ethnic groups was a technique used consistently by Joseph Stalin during his government;[20] between 1935 and 1938 alone, at least ten different nationalities were deported.[21] Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union led to a massive escalation in Soviet ethnic cleansing.[22]

 

daftandbarmy

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Kyle Porter, CAF member, doing the business. I just saw him on the news wearing a balmoral, so he might be a reservist.

Well done all these CIRO folks:



Members of an Alberta search and rescue group are in Ukraine working to save the lives of those trapped beneath the rubble of buildings collapsed by airstrikes.

The Canadian International Rescue Organization (CIRO) consists of eight volunteer team members, mostly from central Alberta, who have travelled to Kyiv to conduct a series of high-tech missions in hopes of finding survivors.

After reaching out to the Ukrainian consulate in Edmonton at the end of February to offer their services, the team embarked to Ukraine the following week with food rations and equipment.

Team leader Marcel Schur from Red Deer described unsettling moments that occur daily as his group enters the danger zones of Kyiv where strikes have hit less than a kilometre away.

This included a tense moment on Monday, when a bomb went off across the freeway from where his team was conducting a search effort.

“It’s just up and down with these emotions,” Schur said.

“You go through the chaos and the confusion and everything like that, there’s high and lows, it’s hot and it's cold at night and you get this big rollercoaster of a day.”

Schur says his team members are using cameras along with seismic sensors to detect movement. CIRO has been working exclusively with the Kyiv Fire and Rescue Service to train their firefighters how to use the technology.

“As long as it’s a conscious person and you can get them to tap or scratch on the surface of the rubble, we’ll be able to hear them,” said Schur.

“Normally in an earthquake you get layers of destruction, but because it’s all blown in, it all just falls and intertwines with each other. There’s not a lot of spots for the person to be underneath, but there is always a chance and that’s what we work for.”

As of Wednesday, the group has successfully completed searches of three buildings and has found one survivor.

Sadly, many people discovered are already deceased, but the hope of finding even a single survivor is why Calgarian Kyle Porter made the trip.

The nine-year member of the Canadian Armed Forces is a medic who was watching the Ukrainian conflict on television and felt it was an obligation to offer his services.

"I saw that footage and I thought, ‘that’s not fair.' I have equipment, I have training. I have experience, and the fact that I get to sit here and enjoy the benefits of where I live compared to these people and their families, I knew I needed to do what I could to get some cosmic level of justice."'


Porter says he’s seen everything from minor wounds caused by pieces of glass falling from buildings, to people who are critically injured in explosions.

Those scenes are still difficult to experience for search and rescue team members like Jackson Siewert from Okotoks, Alta.

"It’s tough to see, but we’re here for a reason and you have to focus on that reason, because we want to help," he said.

"There’s a lot of emotions for sure, but as a team we have to hold things together.”

CIRO is a non-profit organization that relies on donations for help.

Anyone wishing to donate to CIRO can visit CanadaHelps.Org.

Alberta-based search and rescue team works to find Ukrainian survivors beneath collapsed buildings


Looks like Marcel Schur is CAF as well:


 
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