Ukraine - Superthread

[Quirky]

Good point, better stay where you are. It sucks here in winter time. Especially yesterday

Concrete jungle.

 

[dapaterson]

From an industrial offsets / maintenance of the defence industrial base perspective, offshoring heavy maintenance is a bug, not a feature.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Was thinking about this in a Canadian context, Canada could commit it's entire Leopard fleet to Ukraine and in return get M1's from the US. We could make a deal where DU equipped tanks are allowed to train in Canada and would be eventually replaced by export models. We did similar back in the late 50's when we leased US made 105mm howitzers, while ours were being made. A further advantage of the M1 purchase is that heavy maintenance could be done at US facilities, leaving us only to have to deal with general maintenance. The downside of this arrangement is that there are no M1 based ARV (there is the M88A2) and the AEV versions are a Breaching vehicle M1150 and the M1074 bridging vehicle. But they don't have direct replacement for the Leo 2 AEV.

​

Stop thinking proactively and outside of the box - people don't like smart people, it makes them nervous.

 

[CBH99]

Subjective. I prefer a cold, clear day in the winter than miserable overcast and rain.

As someone who survived the 'polar vortex' bullshit from a few months ago, where it hit -51'C some days...give me some overcast & rain any day 🙏

 

[Kat Stevens]

Good point, better stay where you are. It sucks here in winter time. Especially yesterday

View attachment 76136

All of those things have people in them? And you like that?? Whatever blows your skirt up, I guess.

 

[Prairie canuck]

Was thinking about this in a Canadian context, Canada could commit it's entire Leopard fleet to Ukraine and in return get M1's from the US. We could make a deal where DU equipped tanks are allowed to train in Canada and would be eventually replaced by export models. We did similar back in the late 50's when we leased US made 105mm howitzers, while ours were being made. A further advantage of the M1 purchase is that heavy maintenance could be done at US facilities, leaving us only to have to deal with general maintenance. The downside of this arrangement is that there are no M1 based ARV (there is the M88A2) and the AEV versions are a Breaching vehicle M1150 and the M1074 bridging vehicle. But they don't have direct replacement for the Leo 2 AEV.

​

With the present GoC always looking to make a media splash this would certainly create the buzz they're looking for in the world's media and actually have some substance to it.
Now, send a couple hundred LAV6s to Ukraine and replace them with Bradley variants an you've got something...

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

Well, here’s a bit of a shocker and if it holds true, makes us look even more pathetic in the eyes of NATO and the G7.

Greece to send Leopard-2 tanks to Ukraine​

It is expected that Greece will supply Ukraine with a total of 40-80 Leopard-2A4 tanks out of 181 tanks of this model, which are in service with the Greek army.

Greece To Send Leopard-2 Tanks To Ukraine

The Ukrainian edition kyivpost.com in today’s publication includes Greece among the countries from which the delivery of Leopard tanks is expected. It says

greekcitytimes.com

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

Helps if you know exactly who your enemy has always been.

 

[Kat Stevens]

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

First step is to get the hell out of your own way.

 

[Czech_pivo]

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

Question - is there any attempt within NATO for countries that share similar equipment to pool their supply/maintenance needs amongst each other? The same with 'best practice' methods/procedures? Or is each country an island onto itself?

 

[NavyShooter]

The question is - have the Greeks actually maintained them? Or, are they giving away the tanks that they cannot maintain? Donate to Ukraine via Germany - who then have to fix them as they go through their hands lest they end up looking any worse in the eyes of John Q Public.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

The Greek fleet of tanks, wheeled, and tracked vehicles is huge. How do they do it? That is my main question?

 

[AmmoTech90]

The Greek fleet of tanks, wheeled, and tracked vehicles is huge. How do they do it? That is my main question?

Conscription

 

[IKnowNothing]

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

Don't the Greeks have a primarily conscript army that pays about 2 bigmac's per month?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Greek fleet of tanks, wheeled, and tracked vehicles is huge. How do they do it? That is my main question?

A lot of it is not running though. I expect most of those M48's are in the same shape as most of those Russian tanks are in Siberia.

 

[RangerRay]

In Greece, money is an abstract concept…the people pretend to pay taxes, the government pretends to pay its debt!

 

[dapaterson]

Question - is there any attempt within NATO for countries that share similar equipment to pool their supply/maintenance needs amongst each other? The same with 'best practice' methods/procedures? Or is each country an island onto itself?

The C130 and C17 user communities enter the chat.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The Greek fleet of tanks, wheeled, and tracked vehicles is huge. How do they do it? That is my main question?

They are technically at war with Turkey, so need a sizable military force to deter aggression from the East.

 

[WLSC]

How can the Greeks do this and maintain a fleet of tanks with the Defense budget of $5.03 Billion in US funds in 2020, and $8.4 Billion in US funds in 2021? They have 170 Leo 2A6, 183 Leo 2A4, and 520 Leo 1A5 models plus 100 M60A3 TT, plus another 279 in storage, plus the 392 M48A5.

How do they maintain this fleet?
Have an army almost double out size.
Somebody should come to Canada and explain this and show us how to do it?

What are their social benefit and pay? IMHO, You’ll got your answer there.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

They are technically at war with Turkey, so need a sizable military force to deter aggression from the East.

Particularly when many of their islands are a stone's throw from the Turkish coast and Turkey considers them theirs.