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"Vibe" of CIS-White men [Road Split from: Sexual Misconduct in the CAF

KevinB

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This you?

If you can't understand how someone can be forced to do something sexually (or other actions for that matter), then you may not understand how you that lack of understanding can create a "vibe".
MJP, I acknowledge I had misread the facts there.
 
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Remius

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Follow on thought.

I am successful by most metrics, and enjoy some of the privileges that go with that. I am also an immigrant.

Am I a privileged immigrant, or an immigrant who is privileged?

Does my privilege derive from being an immigrant or is it just that I am an immigrant who has earned some privilege?

Success does not equal “privilege” in the context of this. Being poor does not mean one does not have certain “privilege”.

I’ll give the best example I can think of: I have been pulled over for speeding or whatever traffic violations a few times in my life. Not once did I think it was because I was a white guy. Ever.

Or not once have I gone out to a bar or a walk at night feeling like some guy might jump me and sexually assault me. I’m pretty sure we all know plenty of women who have to prepare or take precautions when they partake in things we inherently think we are safe from as men.

Two examples of the privilege of 1) being white and 2) being a man

I don’t think that “privilege“ is necessarily one encompassing thing that only applies to “whites” or “males” though. Depends on the context it is being used.
 

Halifax Tar

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Success does not equal “privilege” in the context of this. Being poor does not mean one does not have certain “privilege”.

I’ll give the best example I can think of: I have been pulled over for speeding or whatever traffic violations a few times in my life. Not once did I think it was because I was a white guy. Ever.

Or not once have I gone out to a bar or a walk at night feeling like some guy might jump me and sexually assault me. I’m pretty sure we all know plenty of women who have to prepare or take precautions when they partake in things we inherently think we are safe from as men.

Two examples of the privilege of 1) being white and 2) being a man

I don’t think that “privilege“ is necessarily one encompassing thing that only applies to “whites” or “males” though. Depends on the context it is being used.

I think you're right. I have only ever been pulled over by the Police in Que. And I can safely surmise its because my license plates weren't from that province.
 

KevinB

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Success does not equal “privilege” in the context of this. Being poor does not mean one does not have certain “privilege”.

I’ll give the best example I can think of: I have been pulled over for speeding or whatever traffic violations a few times in my life. Not once did I think it was because I was a white guy. Ever.

Or not once have I gone out to a bar or a walk at night feeling like some guy might jump me and sexually assault me. I’m pretty sure we all know plenty of women who have to prepare or take precautions when they partake in things we inherently think we are safe from as men.

Two examples of the privilege of 1) being white and 2) being a man

I don’t think that “privilege“ is necessarily one encompassing thing that only applies to “whites” or “males” though. Depends on the context it is being used.
I don't think privilege is the correct term for this however.
I will concede that as a white male, I probably don't have the ability to see the issue with the same view point.

Also with an admission that as an LEO, the sexual assaults I did see where ones the victim fought back, and while traumatized, they had reported it immediately after the attack. So I will also concede my lens is colored by not seeing those who didn't initially report the incidents - so I have no idea as to why they didn't report it immediately to authorities (also acknowledging that in the past, some authorities did not do much).

In the same vein as a man, I can't fathom the concept of willingly putting ones member into the hands of an unwilling persons hand etc -- for I know what I would do if that happened to me (rip it out and feed it to them...) something that I had assumed would be common place for any member of the CAF in that situation. I would also expect we have all told our daughters to do that too.

Edit - I guess the admission is, I am not qualified to understand the mentality of some of the victims, but my intent wasn't to diminish them, or suggest they acquiesced or "wanted it", just simply that I didn't understand why they wouldn't react as violently as possible to the situation.
 

MJP

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Mike, I acknowledge I had misread the facts there.
Misread sure and I acknowledge that...but not understanding how that can happen is what you wrote regardless of what you thought you read. That among others as Lumber gives the discussion a certain vibe. Now that post was not the only one, it was just the biggest closest example I could find. It is also an online forum where it is hard to interpret what a person actually meant vs-a-vis how it was/is largely interpreted so there is that as well.

FWIW I got the same sort of vibe largely from this thread that Lumber alluded to, but that is not unusual for this forum. I generally avoid posting in these sort of topics along with politics and other contentious subjects as they generally circle the drain pretty quickly. Just felt the need in this case to back up/highlight what Lumber felt wasn't some isolated person feeling some vibe.
 

KevinB

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Misread sure and I acknowledge that...but not understanding how that can happen is what you wrote regardless of what you thought you read. That among others as Lumber gives the discussion a certain vibe. Now that post was not the only one, it was just the biggest closest example I could find. It is also an online forum where it is hard to interpret what a person actually meant vs-a-vis how it was/is largely interpreted so there is that as well.

FWIW I got the same sort of vibe largely from this thread that Lumber alluded to, but that is not unusual for this forum. I generally avoid posting in these sort of topics along with politics and other contentious subjects as they generally circle the drain pretty quickly. Just felt the need in this case to back up/highlight what Lumber felt wasn't some isolated person feeling some vibe.
Ack -- I tried to better expound on my thoughts above.
 

lenaitch

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I don't think privilege is the correct term for this however.
I will concede that as a white male, I probably don't have the ability to see the issue with the same view point.

Also with an admission that as an LEO, the sexual assaults I did see where ones the victim fought back, and while traumatized, they had reported it immediately after the attack. So I will also concede my lens is colored by not seeing those who didn't initially report the incidents - so I have no idea as to why they didn't report it immediately to authorities (also acknowledging that in the past, some authorities did not do much).

In the same vein as a man, I can't fathom the concept of willingly putting ones member into the hands of an unwilling persons hand etc -- for I know what I would do if that happened to me (rip it out and feed it to them...) something that I had assumed would be common place for any member of the CAF in that situation. I would also expect we have all told our daughters to do that too.

Edit - I guess the admission is, I am not qualified to understand the mentality of some of the victims, but my intent wasn't to diminish them, or suggest they acquiesced or "wanted it", just simply that I didn't understand why they wouldn't react as violently as possible to the situation.
I agree, but I think that, in the context of what is being discussed, the word 'privilege' has taken on a particular and perhaps new meaning. To my mind, it started out being used by those who wished to exclude, some might say devalue, the input or opinions of the mainstream, numerically dominant society because they couldn't possibly understand the core issues. When used by some, it has also turned into a bit of a slur. There might well be a better word but it seems this is one we are stuck with.

Obviously, as a male, I can't completely view things or experience the world from the perspective of my wife or daughter, but it doesn't mean I am dismissive of their views.

And, of course, I have learned that sometimes it is simply better just to shut up. ;)
 

ModlrMike

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Where the challenge lies is in the delta between "believe the victim" and " the presumption of innocence". There is a segment of the population that believes all accusations are prima facie true, and that the alleged perpetrator should be tarred and feathered from the outset. This also exists to a lesser extent in the general population. What people don't understand, or fail to accept, is that "believe the victim" simply means that you take the complaint seriously, and not try to minimize the incident. While cases of false accusation are incredibly low, the inate power of an accusation demands that we do our utmost to protect both parties. This should not be confused with exercising some form of male privilege.
 

Good2Golf

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That is the "privileged white person" vibe I am referring to. People discussing and saying things about the victim of sexual assault that clearly show they have no real appreciation of her plight.
Who specifically? And what is it that was said that indicates they don’t have an appreciation of ‘her’ plight? Are such plights to be limited to CIS-female only? Other variations of gender don’t count? Or all but CIS-male count?

@Lumber, your “vibe” brush casts broadly…across a specific grouping. You also seem to follow up that that specific grouping can’t possibly appreciate plights of those who are not in their grouping, which is a questionable and closed-minded assertion, since you know little to nothing of others’ situations and their experiences, even the “vibe”ing CIS white males, and then preclude them from ever being able to appreciate, so by your logic, why should they even try to appreciate others plight?

In your haste to “vibe” judge many, you have potentially, likely…and at least in one case I know with certainty, denied the validity of any of your target/accused group to now or ever appreciate…’her’, or consider this - a ‘his’, or a ‘their’…plight, notwithstanding the near pan-acknowledgement by all that there has been historically systemic bias against victims (primarily, but not uniquely women) of sexual assault.
 

Lumber

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Holy astringent plum-like fruit, Batman, there's been more discussion about my meagre response to MJP than there has been about the original post about the Fortin case.

Not only was there others who felt the same way as I do, but one of those who contributed to the "vibe" even apologized for his contribution (I'm choosing not to name them because this was never about naming and shaming people).

I specifically stated it was a "vibe" and specifically avoided naming anyone in particular to avoid, you know, actually offending anyone in particular.

Vibe: "a person's emotional state or the atmosphere of a place as communicated to and felt by others."

I communicated to MJP the vibe that I was feeling in the forum at that time.

Are you invalidating my feelings, G2G?
 

Good2Golf

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Are you invalidating my feelings, G2G?
Nope, your feelings are all yours. You’re entitled to them. You keep your vibe, if you feel it works for you.
 

PuckChaser

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I was todays years old when I found out only white people can be falsely accused of sexual misconduct. Here I thought trying to solve the false accusation issue would actually help BIPOC individuals more, as they tend to be overepresented in the Justice system. Guess they must all be guilty.

Learn something new from Army.ca everyday.
 

KevinB

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Holy astringent plum-like fruit, Batman, there's been more discussion about my meagre response to MJP than there has been about the original post about the Fortin case.

Not only was there others who felt the same way as I do, but one of those who contributed to the "vibe" even apologized for his contribution (I'm choosing not to name them because this was never about naming and shaming people).

I specifically stated it was a "vibe" and specifically avoided naming anyone in particular to avoid, you know, actually offending anyone in particular.

Vibe: "a person's emotional state or the atmosphere of a place as communicated to and felt by others."

I communicated to MJP the vibe that I was feeling in the forum at that time.

Are you invalidating my feelings, G2G?
I don’t mind being named, I find it’s less insulting that way.
 

Brad Sallows

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Everyone has only his own experience, and what he thinks about others is inflected by his experience and his own prejudices.

People with chips on their shoulders can't measure anyone else's "vibe".
 

Lumber

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Everyone has only his own experience, and what he thinks about others is inflected by his experience and his own prejudices.

People with chips on their shoulders can't measure anyone else's "vibe".
Concur. That's why I was only expressing the vibe I was feeling.
 
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