• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Walts, posers & wannabes (merged)

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
327
Points
1,130
slayer/raptor said:
are you allowed to wear honours that you did not earn on the right side?

Opinions vary,

Wearing an Ancestor's Medals Mega-thread 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/25589.0;nowap
17 pages,
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
386
Points
880
How about the airforce dude in the strange camo pattern ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/amkfoote/status/797107903123648512/photo/1
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
234
Points
680
Halifax Tar said:
How about the airforce dude in the strange camo pattern ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/amkfoote/status/797107903123648512/photo/1
I would suspect he and the guy in forge cap are from another country.
 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
They appear to be doing the British, palm out, salute we did pre-Unification too.
 

sapperboysen

New Member
Reaction score
1
Points
130
Halifax Tar said:
How about the airforce dude in the strange camo pattern ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/amkfoote/status/797107903123648512/photo/1

That last looks like the new New Zealand combat uniform. Makes sense with the palm out salute.
 

Retired AF Guy

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
41
Points
530
Boysen said:
That last looks like the new New Zealand combat uniform. Makes sense with the palm out salute.


Based on the Sqn badge on right arm, I was going to say 1 Sqn., RAF, but while similar, 1 Sqn has a big red one in the centre.
 

Good2Golf

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
1,987
Points
1,160
Retired AF Guy said:
Based on the Sqn badge on right arm, I was going to say 1 Sqn., RAF, but while similar, 1 Sqn has a big red one in the centre.

RNZAF Pilot Training Squadron (PTS) flying T-6C Texan II trainers based out of Base Ohakea. 

The PTS motto is "Ab Ovo Usque" that you see in the bottom banner of the crest.  RNZAF pilots do their basic training at PTS on the Texan II, then transition to 14 Sqn flying the King Air 200, when they are then given their wings on completion of the course.

Regards
G2G
 

Bzzliteyr

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
410
Good2Golf said:
RNZAF Pilot Training Squadron (PTS) flying T-6C Texan II trainers based out of Base Ohakea. 

The PTS motto is "Ab Ovo Usque" that you see in the bottom banner of the crest.  RNZAF pilots do their basic training at PTS on the Texan II, then transition to 14 Sqn flying the King Air 200, when they are then given their wings on completion of the course.

Regards
G2G

And if I'm not mistaken, the King Air is one of the first to have been painted in the new colours.
 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Boysen said:
That last looks like the new New Zealand combat uniform. Makes sense with the palm out salute.

There is a Kiwi Major I see regularly on my floor.  Their new uniform looks very much like this one.
 

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
403
Points
910
slayer/raptor said:
I saw this today and I know that it is illegal to wear Honours (medals) that a person did not earn themselves. So I am curious from the experts here, are you allowed to wear honours that you did not earn on the right side? My initial thoughts would be no, but for re-enactments such as this case?
Not responding as any sort of dress & deportment 'expert,' but I don't get too worked up by anything re-enactors wear.  They're not trying to pass themselves off as veterans or currently serving military, claiming honours they have not earned; they just like dressing up, for whatever reason.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
1,805
Points
890
Although given the CAF's current penchant for "back to the future" uniforms, who know whether in a few months such re-enactors will cause problems, once the CAF reverts to 1920s uniforms...
 

Journeyman

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
403
Points
910
dapaterson said:
Although given the CAF's current penchant for "back to the future" uniforms, who know whether in a few months such re-enactors will cause problems, once the CAF reverts to 1920s uniforms...
:dunno:  They'll be dressing up in DEUs and Velcro badges....while bidding on contracts to sell puttees to the Army.
 

Retired AF Guy

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
41
Points
530
Good2Golf said:
RNZAF Pilot Training Squadron (PTS) flying T-6C Texan II trainers based out of Base Ohakea. 

The PTS motto is "Ab Ovo Usque" that you see in the bottom banner of the crest.  RNZAF pilots do their basic training at PTS on the Texan II, then transition to 14 Sqn flying the King Air 200, when they are then given their wings on completion of the course.

Regards
G2G

Thank you, much appreciated.
 

Pusser

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1
Points
410
slayer/raptor said:
I saw this today and I know that it is illegal to wear Honours (medals) that a person did not earn themselves. So I am curious from the experts here, are you allowed to wear honours that you did not earn on the right side? My initial thoughts would be no, but for re-enactments such as this case?

Section 419 of the Criminal Code of Canada is pretty clear that it is not allowed and it does not differentiate between wearing them on the left or the right.  The relevant passage states:

419. Unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates

419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,

(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order, ...

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.


Although opinions vary as to whether this section of the Criminal Code is still appropriate or necessary (it is generally believed to have been enacted in order to  people from falsely claiming veterans benefits), the fact remains that it is still the law and there have been a few prosecutions and convictions of late.  It is worth noting that it is different in both the UK and Australia, where descendants are generally allowed to wear deceased ancestors' medals on the right side.

To this end, I find the picture in question a little odd (mind you I find the whole re-enactor business a little odd sometimes as well).  The gentleman in front is wearing a WWI era uniform with WWI medals on the right hand side.  Since the intent of Section 419 is not the prevention of accurate presentations of period uniforms, I would argue that the medals should be worn on the left in this case.  The gentleman in the second rank is likely wearing his own medals as they seem to be from the post-WWII era.  Although that uniform is most associated with WWII, it was worn well into the post war period.  The gentleman in the back, however, seems to be right out of it.  He also seems to be wearing post-WWII medals, but on a uniform that was never worn at that time.
 

Stoker

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
116
Points
680
Pusser said:
Section 419 of the Criminal Code of Canada is pretty clear that it is not allowed and it does not differentiate between wearing them on the left or the right.  The relevant passage states:

419. Unlawful use of military uniforms or certificates

419. Every one who without lawful authority, the proof of which lies on him,

(a) wears a uniform of the Canadian Forces or any other naval, army or air force or a uniform that is so similar to the uniform of any of those forces that it is likely to be mistaken therefor,

(b) wears a distinctive mark relating to wounds received or service performed in war, or a military medal, ribbon, badge, chevron or any decoration or order that is awarded for war services, or any imitation thereof, or any mark or device or thing that is likely to be mistaken for any such mark, medal, ribbon, badge, chevron, decoration or order, ...

is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.


Although opinions vary as to whether this section of the Criminal Code is still appropriate or necessary (it is generally believed to have been enacted in order to  people from falsely claiming veterans benefits), the fact remains that it is still the law and there have been a few prosecutions and convictions of late.  It is worth noting that it is different in both the UK and Australia, where descendants are generally allowed to wear deceased ancestors' medals on the right side.

To this end, I find the picture in question a little odd (mind you I find the whole re-enactor business a little odd sometimes as well).  The gentleman in front is wearing a WWI era uniform with WWI medals on the right hand side.  Since the intent of Section 419 is not the prevention of accurate presentations of period uniforms, I would argue that the medals should be worn on the left in this case.  The gentleman in the second rank is likely wearing his own medals as they seem to be from the post-WWII era.  Although that uniform is most associated with WWII, it was worn well into the post war period.  The gentleman in the back, however, seems to be right out of it.  He also seems to be wearing post-WWII medals, but on a uniform that was never worn at that time.

Every instance of someone getting charged with wearing medals they didn't earn was someone posing as a veteran. There's never been a charge against someone wearing a relatives medals on the right side or a widow wearing her husbands.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
327
Points
1,130
I can appreciate people being offended on parades. But personally, I'm more worried about this sort of thing,

Man posed as federal agent. Was at one crime scene after another. Real First Responders had no idea he was a fake.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20161111_Man_who_posed_as_federal_agent_during_Amtrak_derailment_sentenced_to_probation.html

Or buying police badges on E-Bay,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBSOLETE-1900S-BADGE-MUNICIPAL-POLICE-NEW-YORK-Detective-/172327744989?hash=item281f88b5dd:g:YuAAAOSwMgdXyYAw

 

Pusser

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1
Points
410
Chief Stoker said:
Every instance of someone getting charged with wearing medals they didn't earn was someone posing as a veteran. There's never been a charge against someone wearing a relatives medals on the right side or a widow wearing her husbands.

Fair enough, but I still neither understand, nor approve of the practice of wearing an ancestor's medals.  People say it is to honour their ancestors) or deceased spouses), but why then do we limit a practice like this to medals?  For example, my father was a distinguished academic.  Should I wear his robes (backwards perhaps) on appropriate occasions to honour him?  I don't think so, because I didn't earn them and notwithstanding that I might wear them differently than one who had earned them, there is still the reasonable possibility that someone could think that they were mine.  The same holds true for medals.  Only those educated on the subject know that there is a difference between wearing medals on the left or the right.  There have been plenty of comments on this forum concerning Legion members wearing their impressive racks of Legions medals (worn on the right) and how a lot of people see them as veterans, when in fact, many have never served at all.  Why is there objection to the very existence of Legion medals (which members have actually earned - irrespective of others' opinions of their worth), yet some folks seem OK with the wearing of medals which have not been earned?

There is no argument that anyone is going to think that the 10-year old girl wearing her great-grandfather's medals (on the right) is going to be mistaken for a WWII vet, but what about the 35 year-old grandson?  Again, only the educated know which medals are which.  Most folks only see medals and coloured ribbons and can't tell the difference between an Atlantic Star and General Campaign Star with an Afghanistan ribbon.  For that matter, there plenty of senior citizens now who were too young to have fought in WWII, but who would no look out of place amongst a bunch of other Legion members who did.

Finally, the only time that most of those who wish to wear their ancestors' medals is on Remembrance Day.  Why limit the honour of one's ancestors to one day a year?  I think a far better way to honour them would be to have the medals mounted in a frame and displayed all the time, perhaps with a picture and a story.
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
327
Points
1,130
Pusser said:
Fair enough, but I still neither understand, nor approve of the practice of wearing an ancestor's medals.  People say it is to honour their ancestors) or deceased spouses), but why then do we limit a practice like this to medals?  For example, my father was a distinguished academic.  Should I wear his robes (backwards perhaps) on appropriate occasions to honour him?  I don't think so, because I didn't earn them and notwithstanding that I might wear them differently than one who had earned them, there is still the reasonable possibility that someone could think that they were mine.  The same holds true for medals.  Only those educated on the subject know that there is a difference between wearing medals on the left or the right.  There have been plenty of comments on this forum concerning Legion members wearing their impressive racks of Legions medals (worn on the right) and how a lot of people see them as veterans, when in fact, many have never served at all.  Why is there objection to the very existence of Legion medals (which members have actually earned - irrespective of others' opinions of their worth), yet some folks seem OK with the wearing of medals which have not been earned?

There is no argument that anyone is going to think that the 10-year old girl wearing her great-grandfather's medals (on the right) is going to be mistaken for a WWII vet, but what about the 35 year-old grandson?  Again, only the educated know which medals are which.  Most folks only see medals and coloured ribbons and can't tell the difference between an Atlantic Star and General Campaign Star with an Afghanistan ribbon.  For that matter, there plenty of senior citizens now who were too young to have fought in WWII, but who would no look out of place amongst a bunch of other Legion members who did.

Finally, the only time that most of those who wish to wear their ancestors' medals is on Remembrance Day.  Why limit the honour of one's ancestors to one day a year?  I think a far better way to honour them would be to have the medals mounted in a frame and displayed all the time, perhaps with a picture and a story.

See also,

Wearing an Ancestor's Medals Mega-thread 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/25589.400.html
17 pages.

 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Pusser said:
Fair enough, but I still neither understand, nor approve of the practice of wearing an ancestor's medals.  People say it is to honour their ancestors) or deceased spouses), but why then do we limit a practice like this to medals?  For example, my father was a distinguished academic.  Should I wear his robes (backwards perhaps) on appropriate occasions to honour him?  I don't think so, because I didn't earn them and notwithstanding that I might wear them differently than one who had earned them, there is still the reasonable possibility that someone could think that they were mine.  The same holds true for medals.  Only those educated on the subject know that there is a difference between wearing medals on the left or the right.  There have been plenty of comments on this forum concerning Legion members wearing their impressive racks of Legions medals (worn on the right) and how a lot of people see them as veterans, when in fact, many have never served at all.  Why is there objection to the very existence of Legion medals (which members have actually earned - irrespective of others' opinions of their worth), yet some folks seem OK with the wearing of medals which have not been earned?

There is no argument that anyone is going to think that the 10-year old girl wearing her great-grandfather's medals (on the right) is going to be mistaken for a WWII vet, but what about the 35 year-old grandson?  Again, only the educated know which medals are which.  Most folks only see medals and coloured ribbons and can't tell the difference between an Atlantic Star and General Campaign Star with an Afghanistan ribbon.  For that matter, there plenty of senior citizens now who were too young to have fought in WWII, but who would no look out of place amongst a bunch of other Legion members who did.

Finally, the only time that most of those who wish to wear their ancestors' medals is on Remembrance Day.  Why limit the honour of one's ancestors to one day a year?  I think a far better way to honour them would be to have the medals mounted in a frame and displayed all the time, perhaps with a picture and a story.

I am quite certain that should anyone go up to said relative and question the medals they are wearing on their right side, they will without hesitation let the questioner know who they belonged to and why they are not present with them today.  I personally don't have an issue with someone wanting to wear these medals as a token of respect as long as they're not Walting.  Just as I don't have an issue if you wanted to wear your father's robes as a mark of respect at some appropriate service that would mark his time as an academic (if they in fact do have such things).  Each to their own.
 

Stoker

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
116
Points
680
jollyjacktar said:
I am quite certain that should anyone go up to said relative and question the medals they are wearing on their right side, they will without hesitation let the questioner know who they belonged to and why they are not present with them today.  I personally don't have an issue with someone wanting to wear these medals as a token of respect as long as they're not Walting.  Just as I don't have an issue if you wanted to wear your father's robes as a mark of respect at some appropriate service that would mark his time as an academic (if they in fact do have such things).  Each to their own.

This doesn't seem to be a problem in AUS or NZ where the practice is accepted and encouraged. People should stop being so self righteous and mind there own business unless its a clear case of exposing a Walt and even then some who have every right to wear their honors are being called out by the "experts".
 
Top