We will never trust you again

[Kirkhill]

I acknowledge that you’re having an emotional reaction of your own, but do you actually contest any of the presented facts or any of the product of the analysis? Because it seems pretty aligned with the sort of thinking global decision makers are likely to have.

If you think that what’s happening now is meaningfully comparable to the sentiment surrounding the Bush administration, you’re falling for the same misapprehensions of the Americans referred to in the article, those who seem to think that a correct result at the midterms or a change in which party wins the presidency in 2028 will restore US international relations to ‘normal’.

Trump has broken America’s relationship with the world in a way that will not readily be mended. This isn’t a broken teacup to be soldered whole with gold, or a broken bone to be fixed stronger with steel pins. This is a fault line slip that won’t move back and that may portend more tectonic shifts in the future. There may be another ‘new normal’ in the future, but the western world isn’t going to voluntarily give American back its place of moral leadership.

I accept that all you say is possible.
I don't know if it is fore-ordained.
Lots of moving pieces.

Back to Kate and Anna McGarrigle. Learn to step lively.

 

[Remius]

My own thoughts on the subject:

The America we have known—rooted in shared values, civic unity, and a belief in upward mobility—is lost forever, not through a single catastrophe, but through a slow erosion of trust, truth, and identity. Once bound by a common narrative of freedom and opportunity, the nation now finds itself fractured along political, cultural, and economic lines so deep they seem irreversible.

Technology, once heralded as a democratizing force, has accelerated division. Social media algorithms feed outrage and misinformation, replacing national discourse with tribalism. Institutions that once commanded broad respect—Congress, the press, the justice system—have become arenas for partisan warfare. The very concept of objective truth has eroded, replaced by curated realities that affirm individual biases.

The Trump presidency marked a dramatic turning point. Donald Trump’s rise exploited and widened existing fault lines, transforming politics into spectacle and loyalty tests. His unapologetic attacks on the media, judiciary, intelligence community, and even the electoral process normalized institutional distrust. More dangerously, Trump helped mainstream a deep skepticism—if not outright hostility—toward science and expertise. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he publicly mocked scientists, contradicted health guidelines, and elevated conspiracy theories, contributing to avoidable deaths and permanent damage to public confidence in science.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), which should have led a coordinated federal pandemic response, was marginalized and undermined. Political appointees attempted to rewrite scientific reports and silence public health officials. Experts were pushed aside in favor of ideologues who minimized the severity of the crisis, exposing the fragility of America’s public health infrastructure.

Trump also appointed individuals with little to no experience to powerful positions, prioritizing loyalty over competence. Key departments like Education, the Environment, and Homeland Security were led by figures who often opposed the missions of their own agencies. This erosion of institutional integrity weakened domestic governance and diminished America’s standing abroad.

Trump’s treatment of longstanding American allies further accelerated the nation’s loss of global respect. He openly berated leaders of NATO countries, questioned the value of mutual-defense commitments, and demanded loyalty tests of nations that had stood beside the United States for generations. Traditional partners such as Canada, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom were subjected to public insults and erratic diplomatic behavior, undermining trust built over decades. By treating alliances as transactional and adversarial, Trump destabilized the cooperative frameworks that had underpinned global security since World War II, leaving allies uncertain and adversaries emboldened.

On the world stage, this broader disregard for diplomacy fractured relationships and allowed rivals to expand their influence. Withdrawals from the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, and other international commitments signaled a retreat from leadership and reliability. America's reputation as a steady, principled global partner was replaced by unpredictability and unilateralism.

Perhaps most disturbingly, Trump attempted to wield the Department of Justice as a political weapon. He pressured DOJ officials to investigate critics, interfere in prosecutions, and challenge election results. His attempts to use the courts to punish adversaries reflected authoritarian instincts that threatened the rule of law.

Economically, the American Dream has faltered. For many, upward mobility has become a myth, as wages stagnate and generational wealth gaps widen. The social contract—work hard, play by the rules, and succeed—feels broken.

Most profoundly, the American sense of we—a shared national identity—has fractured into us versus them. Without a unifying narrative, even patriotism has become contested.

This is not to say America cannot adapt or evolve. But the version many remember—confident, cohesive, and united in purpose—is gone. What replaces it remains uncertain, but the old America, for better or worse, is lost to history, lost to her allies, and worst of all, lost to her people.

Good post.

It’s telling that most of the western world now sees the US as a bigger threat than China is.

 

[ytz]

China will implode, demographically and probably economically. The US today on the other hand is the best positioned country on the planet when it comes to demographics and geography - which means economically as well.

Go have a look at birthrates for Gen Z in the US. Not much different than Canada. And honestly, given how fast American governance is becoming a clown show, I'm not sure you assertion can be taken for granted.

Think of where China was in the year 2000. Now they have the largest peacetime trade surplus. The only higher trade surplus in history was the US after WWII. And that economic growth and manufacturing prowess is underpinning their strategic and military threat.

And unfortunately, China's demographics actually make them easier to govern. 90% Han and zero political parties means that when Xi gets on TV everybody understands him. And for all their problems the CCP are nothing if not ruthlessly efficient and pragmatic. They saw Americans talking about cutting off oil and built an EV sector that will eliminate oil imports and a rail network that massively reduces the need for imported airliners. They saw the open Internet as a threat and then built their controlled apps that are actually better than what we have in the West. All of this is competitive advantage, even if the average Westerner doesn't understand.

Meanwhile, the US is stuck in a perpetual cycle of the two party system where nothing gets done., what was already done is getting undone, and what is already built is deteriorating. At this point, there's a bigger risk of American default than China collapsing.

The above might tempt some to paint me as a China sympathizer. Hardly. I just think it's wise not to underestimate or discount the adversary or to simply dismiss our own weaknesses.

 

[ytz]

One should never completely trust any other nation because they all act in their own interests.
Trump won't be POTUS forever. Watch and shoot.

You're right that he won't be POTUS forever. But the disease that led to his second term is there and spreading. It's not going away. And he's normalizing things like mercantilism in trade policy and isolationism in military policy.

This administration is particularly corrupt. They are willing to basically sell out foreign policy for personal interests. That's something you usually see in third world countries. We'll see if that is normalized past this administration.

 

[Brad Sallows]

During that time period, the next 1 to maybe 2 decades, they better hope that China self-implodes, effectively removing themselves from being the next contender.

The US is not at the top of the list of countries that have to worry if China doesn't self-implode (or Russia, or any other international bugbear). Most US voters probably don't care much about abstract things like the advantages of owning the de facto international currency, or the fate of a country like Ukraine that not too long ago was regarded as being not much less corrupt than Russia.

Objections to what Trump has done ought not to sound so much like the grievers are projecting their own worries as "concerns" for the welfare of the US. Also they ought not to characterize "the US" as being the root of their discomfort. The number of people who support Trump and Trump's policies is a decided minority which temporarily has the support of enough independents to make it look like a majority.

Mostly what I hear are the lamentations of elites suddenly confronted with large new spending requirements.

 

[ytz]

He won’t be. The damage though will last a while though.

I question this. We all saw the first Trump term. We learned nothing. And wasted the Biden years instead of building resiliency. Not just Canada. Europe too. Everybody pretended that Trump 45 was an aberration. And we did this despite Biden not reversing a lot of Trump's trade policy and continuing Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal policy.

Even now, all that "Elbows up" talk and we haven't removed any inter-provincial trade barriers. People are fundamentally lazy. They will take on work and hardship until absolutely forced to.

 

[QV]

I acknowledge that you’re having an emotional reaction of your own, but do you actually contest any of the presented facts or any of the product of the analysis? Because it seems pretty aligned with the sort of thinking global decision makers are likely to have.

If you think that what’s happening now is meaningfully comparable to the sentiment surrounding the Bush administration, you’re falling for the same misapprehensions of the Americans referred to in the article, those who seem to think that a correct result at the midterms or a change in which party wins the presidency in 2028 will restore US international relations to ‘normal’.

Trump has broken America’s relationship with the world in a way that will not readily be mended. This isn’t a broken teacup to be soldered whole with gold, or a broken bone to be fixed stronger with steel pins. This is a fault line slip that won’t move back and that may portend more tectonic shifts in the future. There may be another ‘new normal’ in the future, but the western world isn’t going to voluntarily give American back its place of moral leadership.

Make no mistake, no matter the next US election result, the US isn't going to suddenly reverse itself and go back to the Obama days (which only half the US and 3/4 of the Canadian pop. agreed with). The world is changing, not because of Trump, it's just the evolution of things. But Canadians need a boogey man.

 

[OldSolduer]

I question this. We all saw the first Trump term. We learned nothing. And wasted the Biden years instead of building resiliency. Not just Canada. Europe too. Everybody pretended that Trump 45 was an aberration. And we did this despite Biden not reversing a lot of Trump's trade policy and continuing Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal policy.

Even now, all that "Elbows up" talk and we haven't removed any inter-provincial trade barriers. People are fundamentally lazy. They will take on work and hardship until absolutely forced to.

"Elbows Up" was a stupid reaction - no reasoning - just a stupid slogan.

 

[Kirkhill]

My own thoughts on the subject:

The America we have known—rooted in shared values, civic unity, and a belief in upward mobility—is lost forever, not through a single catastrophe, but through a slow erosion of trust, truth, and identity. Once bound by a common narrative of freedom and opportunity, the nation now finds itself fractured along political, cultural, and economic lines so deep they seem irreversible.

Technology, once heralded as a democratizing force, has accelerated division. Social media algorithms feed outrage and misinformation, replacing national discourse with tribalism. Institutions that once commanded broad respect—Congress, the press, the justice system—have become arenas for partisan warfare. The very concept of objective truth has eroded, replaced by curated realities that affirm individual biases.

The Trump presidency marked a dramatic turning point. Donald Trump’s rise exploited and widened existing fault lines, transforming politics into spectacle and loyalty tests. His unapologetic attacks on the media, judiciary, intelligence community, and even the electoral process normalized institutional distrust. More dangerously, Trump helped mainstream a deep skepticism—if not outright hostility—toward science and expertise. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he publicly mocked scientists, contradicted health guidelines, and elevated conspiracy theories, contributing to avoidable deaths and permanent damage to public confidence in science.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), which should have led a coordinated federal pandemic response, was marginalized and undermined. Political appointees attempted to rewrite scientific reports and silence public health officials. Experts were pushed aside in favor of ideologues who minimized the severity of the crisis, exposing the fragility of America’s public health infrastructure.

Trump also appointed individuals with little to no experience to powerful positions, prioritizing loyalty over competence. Key departments like Education, the Environment, and Homeland Security were led by figures who often opposed the missions of their own agencies. This erosion of institutional integrity weakened domestic governance and diminished America’s standing abroad.

Trump’s treatment of longstanding American allies further accelerated the nation’s loss of global respect. He openly berated leaders of NATO countries, questioned the value of mutual-defense commitments, and demanded loyalty tests of nations that had stood beside the United States for generations. Traditional partners such as Canada, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom were subjected to public insults and erratic diplomatic behavior, undermining trust built over decades. By treating alliances as transactional and adversarial, Trump destabilized the cooperative frameworks that had underpinned global security since World War II, leaving allies uncertain and adversaries emboldened.

On the world stage, this broader disregard for diplomacy fractured relationships and allowed rivals to expand their influence. Withdrawals from the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, and other international commitments signaled a retreat from leadership and reliability. America's reputation as a steady, principled global partner was replaced by unpredictability and unilateralism.

Perhaps most disturbingly, Trump attempted to wield the Department of Justice as a political weapon. He pressured DOJ officials to investigate critics, interfere in prosecutions, and challenge election results. His attempts to use the courts to punish adversaries reflected authoritarian instincts that threatened the rule of law.

Economically, the American Dream has faltered. For many, upward mobility has become a myth, as wages stagnate and generational wealth gaps widen. The social contract—work hard, play by the rules, and succeed—feels broken.

Most profoundly, the American sense of we—a shared national identity—has fractured into us versus them. Without a unifying narrative, even patriotism has become contested.

This is not to say America cannot adapt or evolve. But the version many remember—confident, cohesive, and united in purpose—is gone. What replaces it remains uncertain, but the old America, for better or worse, is lost to history, lost to her allies, and worst of all, lost to her people.

One area I differ.

What we now call "objective truth" in my younger days was known as "received wisdom". More appropriately it could be described as the accepted truth. That accepted truth underpinned all our assumptions.

As long as we all shared a common history it was easy to accept those common truths.

We mostly spoke the same, went to the same schools, went to the same churches and read the same Bible.

The Bible that is no longer a common base for decision making but is now a source of hate speech according to our government.

 

[Remius]

I question this. We all saw the first Trump term. We learned nothing. And wasted the Biden years instead of building resiliency. Not just Canada. Europe too. Everybody pretended that Trump 45 was an aberration. And we did this despite Biden not reversing a lot of Trump's trade policy and continuing Trump's Afghanistan withdrawal policy.

That’s my point. Trump will eventually be gone but the damage is done. Trumpism will likely carry on. I don’t think he’s an aberration either. I think the world has this time woken up to that reality.

Even now, all that "Elbows up" talk and we haven't removed any inter-provincial trade barriers. People are fundamentally lazy. They will take on work and hardship until absolutely forced to.

It’s a slow process but it is getting there. The foundation needs to be built up. Time will tell but it seems we are already seeing signs of some resiliency by some actions.

 

[QV]

You're right that he won't be POTUS forever. But the disease that led to his second term is there and spreading. It's not going away. And he's normalizing things like mercantilism in trade policy and isolationism in military policy.

This administration is particularly corrupt. They are willing to basically sell out foreign policy for personal interests. That's something you usually see in third world countries. We'll see if that is normalized past this administration.

This was an Obama and Biden era thing. Trump's net worth has dropped considerably since entering politics, the opposite of his counterparts. Is he just really bad at being corrupt or perhaps not corrupt?

 

[ytz]

Mostly what I hear are the lamentations of elites suddenly confronted with large new spending requirements.

Yep. And most of that spending won't be v in their interest. No more corporate tax cuts. We gotta spend $20B more on defence.

 

[Remius]

This was an Obama and Biden era thing. Trump's net worth has dropped considerably since entering politics, the opposite of his counterparts. Is he just really bad at being corrupt or perhaps not corrupt?

What are you talking about.

Trump Jumps 118 Spots On The Forbes 400 List Thanks To Presidency

Donald Trump lost money during his first term. Out of office, he found a formula for profiting off politics—now he’s piling up billions.

www.forbes.com

 

[ytz]

This was an Obama and Biden era thing. Trump's net worth has dropped considerably since entering politics, the opposite of his counterparts. Is he just really bad at being corrupt or perhaps not corrupt?

Dude sold billions in shady crypto. Buying pardons is now an open secret in DC. Just "donate" to the $300M ballroom he's building. Or rent a room at his DC hotel for $20k a night while in town. And if you have a better explanation for why his peace plan for Ukraine had so many US-Russia specific trade terms I'd love to hear it.

Otherwise, yes, he's corrupt. And no matter how much you defend him, he's not going to sleep with you.

 

[Brad Sallows]

My own thoughts on the subject:

The America we have known—rooted in shared values, civic unity, and a belief in upward mobility—is lost forever, not through a single catastrophe, but through a slow erosion of trust, truth, and identity. Once bound by a common narrative of freedom and opportunity, the nation now finds itself fractured along political, cultural, and economic lines so deep they seem irreversible.

That was conservative America. In the end, "turn-the-other-cheek" Republicans lost the voters when the assaults of the political left on most of the pillars (constitution, courts, police, military, religion, family, etc) became unendurable. What's puzzling is the amount of blame aimed at the average conservative-leaning American and not the political factions who worked tirelessly for decades to establish their own corrosive narratives and priorities in the schools, universities, public agencies, media, entertainment, etc.

The Trump presidency marked a dramatic turning point.

What turned was the emergence of conservative voters willing to abide by the TTPs of the political left being used against the political left. For some reason, suddenly the world ended. Why didn't it end much earlier when the political left became so egregiously dishonest and overbearing?

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), which should have led a coordinated federal pandemic response

Kind of a conveniently fuzzy recollection that omits the behaviour of Democrats who advocated against trusting vaccines...right up until they won the presidential election. That particular thing is one example of many: It. Was. Always. Politics. First.

To lose sight of that is to be incapable of correctly identifying the root causes of this mess.

 

[Czech_pivo]

My own thoughts on the subject:

The America we have known—rooted in shared values, civic unity, and a belief in upward mobility—is lost forever, not through a single catastrophe, but through a slow erosion of trust, truth, and identity. Once bound by a common narrative of freedom and opportunity, the nation now finds itself fractured along political, cultural, and economic lines so deep they seem irreversible.

Technology, once heralded as a democratizing force, has accelerated division. Social media algorithms feed outrage and misinformation, replacing national discourse with tribalism. Institutions that once commanded broad respect—Congress, the press, the justice system—have become arenas for partisan warfare. The very concept of objective truth has eroded, replaced by curated realities that affirm individual biases.

The Trump presidency marked a dramatic turning point. Donald Trump’s rise exploited and widened existing fault lines, transforming politics into spectacle and loyalty tests. His unapologetic attacks on the media, judiciary, intelligence community, and even the electoral process normalized institutional distrust. More dangerously, Trump helped mainstream a deep skepticism—if not outright hostility—toward science and expertise. During the COVID-19 pandemic, he publicly mocked scientists, contradicted health guidelines, and elevated conspiracy theories, contributing to avoidable deaths and permanent damage to public confidence in science.

The Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), which should have led a coordinated federal pandemic response, was marginalized and undermined. Political appointees attempted to rewrite scientific reports and silence public health officials. Experts were pushed aside in favor of ideologues who minimized the severity of the crisis, exposing the fragility of America’s public health infrastructure.

Trump also appointed individuals with little to no experience to powerful positions, prioritizing loyalty over competence. Key departments like Education, the Environment, and Homeland Security were led by figures who often opposed the missions of their own agencies. This erosion of institutional integrity weakened domestic governance and diminished America’s standing abroad.

Trump’s treatment of longstanding American allies further accelerated the nation’s loss of global respect. He openly berated leaders of NATO countries, questioned the value of mutual-defense commitments, and demanded loyalty tests of nations that had stood beside the United States for generations. Traditional partners such as Canada, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom were subjected to public insults and erratic diplomatic behavior, undermining trust built over decades. By treating alliances as transactional and adversarial, Trump destabilized the cooperative frameworks that had underpinned global security since World War II, leaving allies uncertain and adversaries emboldened.

On the world stage, this broader disregard for diplomacy fractured relationships and allowed rivals to expand their influence. Withdrawals from the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, and other international commitments signaled a retreat from leadership and reliability. America's reputation as a steady, principled global partner was replaced by unpredictability and unilateralism.

Perhaps most disturbingly, Trump attempted to wield the Department of Justice as a political weapon. He pressured DOJ officials to investigate critics, interfere in prosecutions, and challenge election results. His attempts to use the courts to punish adversaries reflected authoritarian instincts that threatened the rule of law.

Economically, the American Dream has faltered. For many, upward mobility has become a myth, as wages stagnate and generational wealth gaps widen. The social contract—work hard, play by the rules, and succeed—feels broken.

Most profoundly, the American sense of we—a shared national identity—has fractured into us versus them. Without a unifying narrative, even patriotism has become contested.

This is not to say America cannot adapt or evolve. But the version many remember—confident, cohesive, and united in purpose—is gone. What replaces it remains uncertain, but the old America, for better or worse, is lost to history, lost to her allies, and worst of all, lost to her people.

Beautiful - thank you for writing this.

 

[ytz]

What are you talking about.

Trump Jumps 118 Spots On The Forbes 400 List Thanks To Presidency

Donald Trump lost money during his first term. Out of office, he found a formula for profiting off politics—now he’s piling up billions.

www.forbes.com

Alternative Facts.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This was an Obama and Biden era thing. Trump's net worth has dropped considerably since entering politics, the opposite of his counterparts. Is he just really bad at being corrupt or perhaps not corrupt?

I think you’ve drank a bit too much of the kool-aide if you think his net worth has dropped since taking office.

 

[ytz]

There's a specific turning point in all the polling that you can identify when America broke. 2003. Before the invasion of Iraq most polls said America was moving in the right direction.. Post-invasion Americans haven't had a single year where those polls said the country was moving in the right direction.

Iraq is the gift that keeps on giving. And unfortunately all the people involved in selling that terrible decision were mostly rehabilitated in public. Just imagine what the trillions wasted on Iraq could have done for the average American. Or how Afghanistan would have turned out if the Americans weren't distracted with Iraq.

 

[ytz]

I think you’ve drank a bit too much of the kool-aide if you think his net worth has dropped since taking office.

Just imagine what his feed is like to come to the conclusion that the dude selling crypto before swearing in is less corrupt than his predecessors. The algorithm can really mess you up if you lack basic media literacy and critical thinking.