Who crews the LAV III? What are the dismount drills?
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My experience is that it varies from unit to unit, though there is probably some standardied doctrine on it now. Some have 10 man sections, some have 8 man sections, sometimes the Pl Comd and 2IC are in the same track, sometimes in different tracks. Sometimes a gunner stays behind, sometimes the Sect Comd stays behind and sometimes the 2IC stays behind.
I guess that‘s not much of an answer really...
I guess that‘s not much of an answer really...
MJP
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With the LAV, for the most part the sect comd is never in the turret. He sits in the back with the 2IC and they both dismount with the troops. The Pl Comd usually still sits in the turret and controls the LAV‘s till the dismount.
Within the plt each lav is controlled by a crew comd( who has to be lav gunner with the crew comd‘s course and be JLC qualified). Every plt has a LAV SGT, which controls the LAV‘s after the PL COMD has left the turret to join the attack on the ground. The LAV sgt for us sits in the Bravo carrier and controls the zulu LAV‘s under the direction of the the LAV CAPT, who is part of COY HQ.
So as you can see it‘s a little different from the grizzly or for that matter the 113. This is how our coy does it, every OC probably has his little variations on what he likes to put in.
Within the plt each lav is controlled by a crew comd( who has to be lav gunner with the crew comd‘s course and be JLC qualified). Every plt has a LAV SGT, which controls the LAV‘s after the PL COMD has left the turret to join the attack on the ground. The LAV sgt for us sits in the Bravo carrier and controls the zulu LAV‘s under the direction of the the LAV CAPT, who is part of COY HQ.
So as you can see it‘s a little different from the grizzly or for that matter the 113. This is how our coy does it, every OC probably has his little variations on what he likes to put in.
Jungle
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All those variations make for an Army that has a hard time working together. It‘s more than time the Army leadership come up with a LAV doctrine and all units work and train accordingly. We have been talking about this machine for so long, yet we don‘t have a standardized way to do business in it.
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Thanks for the answers. I was wondering about it because someone was telling me the section commander sits inside the turrent with the gunner and when they dismount he jumps out and the 2IC hops up (which seemed a little silyl to me) then someone else argued something different.
Having a designated LAV3 crew seems like the best idea. When i heard a reserve company was going to bosnia and they had LAV3s there now i was thinking great, lav3 drivers or gunners course here i come.
Then i heard the great news, 4 Dozen iltis jeeps.
Having a designated LAV3 crew seems like the best idea. When i heard a reserve company was going to bosnia and they had LAV3s there now i was thinking great, lav3 drivers or gunners course here i come.
Then i heard the great news, 4 Dozen iltis jeeps.
P
Pugil
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He might be correct, I dont know if the sop‘s is a standard or it is up the the unit, but when I trained with the vandoos a year ago, the section commander sits in the turret when there is no combat but when they expect a contact, he switch position with the 2ic at the back and the 2ic gets in the turret. I noticed that the section commander is constantly working from directing the section to lead the section for an attack, theres almost no break for him. But it might change since then.
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what‘s this about 4 dozen iltis jeeps?
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Which is a good thing. Although a little tight at times, the Iltis will let you go places in Bosnia where you would not want to take a Griz or a LAV. The biggest headache overthere in terms of recovery were
A) Armoured vehicles of various types that the ****ty roads could not handle.
B) Rear Ech retards in Jeep Grand Cherokees driving where there not supposed to be.
Alas, I digress...
A) Armoured vehicles of various types that the ****ty roads could not handle.
B) Rear Ech retards in Jeep Grand Cherokees driving where there not supposed to be.
Alas, I digress...
MJP
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Hmm that‘s interesting Pugil...as far as I knew it was pretty standard across the board for how the LAV‘s operated. But then again it‘s only beeen pretty recently that we have adopted this way. Before we were trying every combo under the sun! 
But it was found to be to much of a hassle for the sect comd to scoot down and have someone switch around with him. I think it‘s better to have a dedicated crew commander but that‘s just my opinion and you know what they say about opinion‘s
But it was found to be to much of a hassle for the sect comd to scoot down and have someone switch around with him. I think it‘s better to have a dedicated crew commander but that‘s just my opinion and you know what they say about opinion‘s
P
Pugil
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It was a while ago, the unit I trained with was the fist unit in Canada to be fully converted with Lav, I dont know if the tactics have changed since then.
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Before somebody answers with the correct answer, here's a rumour that was going around in the Armoured world a while back (a year or so ago) when we heard we were going to lose the Leopards (and in most peoples opinions at the time, our livelihood): black hatters (Armour Corps guys) would be tasked to drive, gun and command the infantries LAVIII fleet, and they would focus on doing what they do best: piling out of the back and kicking some butt. That caused a bit of fear in our hearts (ie work for the infantry) and fear for them as well (ie lose out on the cushy jobs where they don't have to dismount).
As it is, I think that the way it has been (ie infantry crewing their own vehicles) will continue. Somebody in a Mech Battalion will no doubt answer soon enough, but I believe that the crews are still part of the section.
Al
As it is, I think that the way it has been (ie infantry crewing their own vehicles) will continue. Somebody in a Mech Battalion will no doubt answer soon enough, but I believe that the crews are still part of the section.
Al
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When a LAV-III came to a recruiting display I was working at in May, I had a chance to talk to the crew, (among other fun LAV activities), and they were PPCLI - they said that if I went Reg force infantry I could learn how to drive one, and AFAIK the other mechanized units are the same.
My question is, are LAV (infantry) crews organized in with a rifle section, or are they just attached to whatever troops need transport, and they train separately?
My question is, are LAV (infantry) crews organized in with a rifle section, or are they just attached to whatever troops need transport, and they train separately?
MJP
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The LAV crew is incorporated into the section which consists of ten pers;
1 Sect Comd
1 Sect 2IC(second in command)
1 LAV driver
1 LAV gunner
2 C9 gunners
4 C7 rifleman(2 of which have M203s)
In an ideal world both the section commander and the 2IC would be LAV crew commander qualified and the question of who would command the vehicle and who would command the section would be dictated in orders dependant on the mission.
Armour doing the driving for the infantry would be worthy of a new topic altogether.
1 Sect Comd
1 Sect 2IC(second in command)
1 LAV driver
1 LAV gunner
2 C9 gunners
4 C7 rifleman(2 of which have M203s)
In an ideal world both the section commander and the 2IC would be LAV crew commander qualified and the question of who would command the vehicle and who would command the section would be dictated in orders dependant on the mission.
Armour doing the driving for the infantry would be worthy of a new topic altogether.
KevinB
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in addition to MJP's
LAV sections have a 3 i/c (ideally a leadership qual'd Cpl) who is the ground 2 i/c when the Vehicle commander is off doing his stuff with the Zulu vehicle.
Ideally the vehicle role would be 011, but too many fat 031's would be out of a job...
LAV sections have a 3 i/c (ideally a leadership qual'd Cpl) who is the ground 2 i/c when the Vehicle commander is off doing his stuff with the Zulu vehicle.
Ideally the vehicle role would be 011, but too many fat 031's would be out of a job...
Lance Wiebe
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Canada has been doing some serious research in to the New Zealand situation.
New Zealand decided to get rid of its Armour Corps a few years back, as the Armoured had no armour vehicles that the Infantry didn't have. Something like us now, or when we get rid of the Leo....
Anyway, New Zealand is keeping the Armour Corp alive by placing all vehicle crews in the Armour, and all Infantry in the back. New Zealand operates LAVIII, BTW. The logic is twofold, one, let the seperate Corps do what they do best, and secondly, once the Infantry dismount, the vehicles can still operate as IFV,s, and conduct other tasks.
The downside of course, is that the Armour has no armour, and no direct fire capability. Which seems to be the way we are heading.
I do know that Canada has been observing the New Zealand army with a great deal of interest.....for what it is worth.
New Zealand decided to get rid of its Armour Corps a few years back, as the Armoured had no armour vehicles that the Infantry didn't have. Something like us now, or when we get rid of the Leo....
Anyway, New Zealand is keeping the Armour Corp alive by placing all vehicle crews in the Armour, and all Infantry in the back. New Zealand operates LAVIII, BTW. The logic is twofold, one, let the seperate Corps do what they do best, and secondly, once the Infantry dismount, the vehicles can still operate as IFV,s, and conduct other tasks.
The downside of course, is that the Armour has no armour, and no direct fire capability. Which seems to be the way we are heading.
I do know that Canada has been observing the New Zealand army with a great deal of interest.....for what it is worth.
R
RyanNS
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This is somewhat of a specific question that I couldn't find an answer for by searching. Hopefully someone can answer this for me. In a LAV III rifle company I was wondering who generally manned the turret in each section, but more specifically of the Platoon HQ LAV. I see that it consists of a Lt., W.O., Sgt., MCpl., and a C-P mix. I'm guessing here that an Infantry LAV III rifle company doesnt have a dedicated armour crew . So out of that mix of ranks, who generally drives, commands and acts as the gunner in the LAV and what happens when it comes time to dismount? Thanks
Ryan
Edit: Wow how did I miss this thread ??? Thanks for shutting down my previous thread and moving this. My bad. Anyone can feel free to answer this question though ;D
Ryan
Edit: Wow how did I miss this thread ??? Thanks for shutting down my previous thread and moving this. My bad. Anyone can feel free to answer this question though ;D
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In our Pl the Platoon Comd commands the lav until the dismount, when he dismounts the LAV Sgt switch's places with him and commands it. It is a bit time consuming for the Pl comd to dismount and get geared up but he has to be able to see what he is going into and he can not do that riding in the back. In the past the Wpns det comd switched with the Pl comd and the LAV Sgt commanded our 1 section LAV.
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