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Will 2021 see a new pistol buy?

Will the CAF's new pistol be a:

  • the new US service pistol, the Sig Sauer P320 (M17/M18)?

    Votes: 7 43.8%
  • the British version of the Glock 17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Beretta APX?

    Votes: 1 6.3%
  • a Canadian designed Black Creek Labs PX17?

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • a Norinco?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • something else?

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .

Haggis

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I have a couple of different ones for the AR platform. I also have a sub kit for my .45 Commander. They all work flawlessly. Glock, Sig & Beretta all have .22 sub kits an full sized pistols in .22. For the government, 20 of these per unit, would not be a big deal and what is does costs them will be saved in ammo costs.
Totally agree. I teach at my local gun club and always start newbies out on .22 cal. There's a reason why SATS is such an effective training tool (if properly used). Subcal is an extension of that philosophy.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I have DAR-22 (Dlask built 10/22 with a VQ trigger group, scope and bipod. It will shoot accuratly out to 200m, the trigger is beautiful, the heavy barrel is supported by the bipod and the hogue stock allows a firm grip. Newbies love shooting it as they getting the reward of hitting something with no recoil or strain, great for kids and the bipod reduces the chance the barrel will be pointed the wrong way. I also have several .22 pistols and pistol adaptors. Great on the ammo budget and for teaching pistol work to. I always encourage people getting into pistols to stick to 9mm and get an .22 adaptor or .22 pistol to practice with. Easier on the pocket book and extends your range time.
 

NavyShooter

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I specifically built a dedicated .22 LR upper receiver for my AR. I took a proper 1/16 twist barrel, mated it with a Ceiner .22 kit (which I found worked better than the old Colt style kits) and when I was seriously competing in service rifle, I'd shoot about 5000 rounds a year through it in the winter months as training/prep. Got me to the top 10 a number of times, and maxed out as the runner up for the Queens' in 2008.

Using a dedicated barrel of the proper twist, I was getting 1/2" groups standing at 20m. Reliability with the right ammo was nearly 100%.
 

Haggis

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Beretta APX, Ruger American Pistol and Steyr M9A2 all meet the specifications.
While browsing some gun sites for a another potential purchase this morning, I noticed that the Ruger American is selling in Canada (retail) for half the price of the P320 and hundreds less than the APX and Steyr M9A2.
 

calculus

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A bit of topic, but I've been thinking about a conversion kit for my G17 for a while now. Anyone here on this thread have any positive experience with the Advantage Arms kit? Or the Tactical Solutions?

With regards to the replacement pistol, rumour has it that the RCMP might also be looking for a new service pistol. Any thoughts on a common pistol design between both services? The P320 has been making some inroads into law enforcement lately south of us, and also in Europe.
 

Haggis

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With regards to the replacement pistol, rumour has it that the RCMP might also be looking for a new service pistol. Any thoughts on a common pistol design between both services? The P320 has been making some inroads into law enforcement lately south of us, and also in Europe.
At least one segment of the RCMP has gone to Glocks already. I expect this may influence their selection of a general duty pistol.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I personally despise the trigger on the Glock, that being said the G17/G19 is a absolutely solid pistol and either the CF or RCMP won't be let down with them, if they get picked.
 

Haggis

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I personally despise the trigger on the Glock, that being said the G17/G19 is a absolutely solid pistol and either the CF or RCMP won't be let down with them, if they get picked.
Except that the tender documents disqualify the Glock. But Glock complained, so the CAF may not get a new pistol for a very long time.....
.....or they will get Glocks.
 

Maxman1

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Because Glock gets pissy whenever someone suggests their design might not be "perfection" (such as pulling the trigger to disassemble, having a chunky, non-adjustable grip size).
 

Jarnhamar

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Except that the tender documents disqualify the Glock. But Glock complained, so the CAF may not get a new pistol for a very long time.....
.....or they will get Glocks.

Does it look like Glock are being sore losers or did the CAF purposefully write them out of the tender?
 

Haggis

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Does it look like Glock are being sore losers or did the CAF purposefully write them out of the tender?
By reading the tender documents (posted far above), I'd say that the CAF favours the P320, likely due to Sig Sauer beating out Glock in the US MHP, despite the recommendations of all the Glock owners who roam the halls of NDHQ.
 

Ostrozac

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By reading the tender documents (posted far above), I'd say that the CAF favours the P320, likely due to Sig Sauer beating out Glock in the US MHP, despite the recommendations of all the Glock owners who roam the halls of NDHQ.
I belong to a gun club in the NCR, and I don’t see all that many Glocks out in the hands of other military members and veterans. CZ (the proud new owners of Colt Canada) seems to be the most popular, followed closely by Sig. Glock seems to be firmly in the second tier of popularity, along with the likes of S&W and Beretta.

If there is a bias for Glock, it would be in the long strain of Anglophilia in our ranks — when in doubt, we often follow the lead of the British Army, who use the Glock 17, designated the L131A1, as their standard pistol.
 

Colin Parkinson

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The CZ has taken over IPSC thanks to reliability, customizable, long service life, lower bore axis. I like the CZ, but would like one with a area around the rear sight raised to make gripping the slide easier. AR offered a Turkish clone like that for awhile.
 

Haggis

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I belong to a gun club in the NCR, and I don’t see all that many Glocks out in the hands of other military members and veterans. CZ (the proud new owners of Colt Canada) seems to be the most popular, followed closely by Sig. Glock seems to be firmly in the second tier of popularity, along with the likes of S&W and Beretta.

The CZ has taken over IPSC thanks to reliability, customizable, long service life, lower bore axis.

I shoot IPSC and IDPA alongside a few CAF members/vets who are Glock-people. I'm seeing more P320's showing up (notably the Legion model) with and without RDOs. But CZ's rule the roost in numbers for new shooters.
 

MilEME09

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Cz already has a leg up after buy colt, they are probably already retooling north American factories to make CZ products so they could potentially make them in Canada for us.
 

Eaglelord17

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Weld a Pic rail onto the BHP, add a coat of blueing, some Pachmayr grips and 3-dot sights. Good as new.
To be fair, provided the pistols were in newer shape they could just do this.

It's not that the BHP is a bad pistol (most modern pistol designs are pretty much the same design reworked a bit), it is just a worn one. The quality of the pistol is a lot of why it has remained in service so long. If anyone is expecting some sort of amazing new pistol which performs significantly better than a decent condition BHP they will be disappointed.

Realistically it doesn't matter which major pistol they pick, they all perform about the same, and with the amount of training we provide our troops, any slight difference between the pistols will be levelled off through lack of skill. Personally I favour CZ or Sig myself, just because those are the ergonomics I am used to, but there is nothing wrong with Glock either.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Buying the pistol is the easy part, increasing the training is more important. in the 1980's pistol training was the blind leading the blind and I can shoot pistol despite my army training. I think it's better now, but not sure by how much. When I was actively practising for IPSC, it was not uncommon to go through 300 rds in a night, twice a month and another 2 days at the range with 100-150 rds. My instructor was averaging 40,000rds a year to stay competitive at the international level. Besides the .22 sub cal kits, there are quite a few laser based training systems out there that would allow units to train a lot of the basic skill sets, prior to going on the range.
 

dangerboy

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Unfortunately, I can't see the pistol training changing much. I suspect that for the project the assumption would be that the soldiers would have the same amount of time and ammunition for pistol training as what is currently allocated.
 

Haggis

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Besides the .22 sub cal kits, there are quite a few laser based training systems out there that would allow units to train a lot of the basic skill sets, prior to going on the range.
We have trialled a couple of the newer LASER based training systems at work (e.g. Mantis-X) during both dry and live fire. Basically, they don't work very well unless you have a DAO trigger as you have to break your grip to either reset the hammer or cycle the slide after every shot. So, any hint of consistency in grip is out the window. For the other diagnostics, (trigger slap, flinching etc.) they use a simple accelerometer/software package which "guesses" which shooter error you committed based on the movement of the gun.
 
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