SISIP LTD 2002 - 2018

[The Bread Guy]

The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, today announced that, pending court approval, the Government of Canada, through the Department of Justice, and the counsel for members of the class action have concluded discussions to resolve the issues raised in the class action of Dennis Manuge v. Her Majesty The Queen.

“The well-being of both our serving and retired members is very important for the Government of Canada,” said Minister MacKay. “Acting quickly and fairly to resolve this matter is of the utmost importance, and I am pleased an agreement in principle has been reached.”

Today the Federal Court approved a notice to inform the class members that an agreement in principle had been reached regarding the reduction of Pension Act disability benefits from SISIP Long Term Disability benefits. A Federal Court hearing for approval of the agreement will be held on February 14, 2013 in Halifax ....

DND/CF Info-machine, 9 Jan 13

 

[Occam]

Details on the agreement can be found at http://leavenovetbehind.ca/proposed_agreement.

 

[bigcletus]

I'm just starting to fill in the app for LTD.  I read it over in full before I'll complete it and notice that SISIP are asking what VAC pension/Awards have been received.  With the court case last year eliminating the SISIP claw-back, has anyone just ignored that portion of the info ??  I don't want to stop the process by refusing to provide the info, but really VAC benefits have no bearing on SISIP LTD now...or does it ??  I'm just trying to get a feel for what others have done recently with this.

Thanks

 

[ArmyGuy99]

Its the same old case of the paper work not catching up with reality.  I wouldn't worry about it.  I just did mine.  I left it blank, or I ball parked it (I can't remember).  I've been getting my awards in tidbits as I fight and I've lost count of the actual amount.

 

[bigcletus]

Thanks Med...that's the way I'll go too (and that what my initial plan was lol)

Cheers

 

[The Bread Guy]

Latest from the Federal Court:

T-463-07; DENNIS MANUGE v. HMQ Federal Court Hearing will take place at the World Trade and Convention Centre, 1800 Argyle Street, Halifax, NS on February 14 and 15, 2013 at 10:00 a.m.

 

[Nemo888]

Slightly off topic but 100% LTD related.

When you are receiving LTD in the first 2 years of your rehab before you can get VAC voc rehab are you eligible for the earnings loss benefit and the 40k per year minimum?

 

[The Bread Guy]

This just out from the Minister of Defence on how much the lawyers'll get....

“Our Government has enormous respect for the men and women who have sacrificed in service of their country. Government officials have concluded discussions with the class’ legal team to come to an agreement in principle in the class action of Dennis Manuge v. Her Majesty the Queen regarding the offset of Pension Act disability benefits from the Service Income Security Insurance LTD Plan (SISIP). The current estimated value of the settlement is approximately $887.8 million.

Obviously, in settling the case, we expect that as much of that settlement as possible reaches its intended beneficiaries, the veterans themselves. The Crown informed the judge that the Government of Canada will oppose the amount of legal fees ($66.6M) being sought by class members as excessive and unreasonable. Class counsel are entitled to recover reasonable legal fees for their work; however, the legal fees sought, which equates to a top hourly rate of $13,487.50, are so far beyond what can be characterized as reasonable as to be grossly excessive.

The Crown has filed submissions oppose the amount of legal fees that are being sought by class counsel on the basis that they are excessive. The issue of legal fees for class counsel was not part of the settlement agreement and will be decided separately by the Court. Our government continues to reflect and improve upon its programs dedicated to supporting Canada’s ill and injured military personnel and veterans, and to provide the care that our personnel and their families deserve.”

 

[Privateer]

In fairness, the proposed amount for legal fees was discussed in detail in the notice to class members approved by the Court.  Details were also posted online, here: http://leavenovetbehind.ca/proposed_agreement

It's not like the lawyers were keeping the proposed fee (which has to be approved by the Court) a secret.

The Government fought this claim all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada on certification, and then on the merits.  Their claim that they are now concerned for the rights of veterans is, frankly, ballsy BS at this point.  A desperate attempt at seeking some good optics at the end of the process.

 

[The Bread Guy]

In fairness, the proposed amount for legal fees was discussed in detail in the notice to class members approved by the Court.  Details were also posted online, here: http://leavenovetbehind.ca/proposed_agreement

It's not like the lawyers were keeping the proposed fee (which has to be approved by the Court) a secret.

The Government fought this claim all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada on certification, and then on the merits.  Their claim that they are now concerned for the rights of veterans is, frankly, ballsy BS at this point.  A desperate attempt at seeking some good optics at the end of the process.

Or to hang on just a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitle bit longer?

How cynical of me ....

 

[BeyondTheNow]

Veterans relieved
CBC News
Last Updated: Feb 14, 2013 8:55 PM ET

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/02/14/ns-disabled-vet-clawback-hearing-day-1.html

"Veterans have fought and won a six-year battle to get money for comrades who have been disabled in a conflict zone or at home. CBC

Alisa Sellar, whose husband is a veteran who suffers from MS, says the settlement will change her family's life. CBC

Dennis Manuge, the lead plantiff in a class-action lawsuit against the federal government, is a former mechanic who was injured in 2003. CBC

An almost $900-million class-action settlement over the clawback of military pensions is expected to be completed over the next two days in Halifax.

On Thursday, dozens of the 7,500 disabled veterans involved in the suit attended a hearing, which is the last step in the Federal Court process that has taken more than six years.

Many people at the hearing said they are relived the ordeal will soon be over.

The veterans sued the federal government because their long-term disability benefits were being reduced by the amount of their disability pensions, with some of the most gravely injured not receiving any of their pension.

Veterans have been complaining about the clawback of various benefits since the new Veterans Charter was introduced in 2006.

Alisa Sellar, whose husband is a veteran with multiple sclerosis, said this deal will finally give her family their life back.

"We don't have to sell our house anymore is what this means," she said.

"And my husband is very, very happy because he doesn't have to worry about me and the kids. He's been in a nursing home for six years. He's had MS for 25 years. His main concern is us and this to him means he won't have to worry about us anymore."

The lead plaintiff in the case is Dennis Manuge, a former solider who was injured in 2003. He has fought in the courts for more than six years to get money for veterans who have been disabled in a conflict zone or at home..."

(Cont'd in link...)

 

[Teager]

So I'm just putting this out there to see if anyone else feels theres some unfairness or maybe you think it is fair.

Currently if you are a res on CL C service and are injured on duty and released you recieve 75% of your pay AT TIME OF INJURY or the minimum of 40k.

If you are Reg force you recieve 75% of your pay AT TIME OF RELEASE.

For my own case this is hard for me because I am a res soldier currently still on CL C. At the time of injury I was a pte on tour. I am now a cpl 4 and still waiting for release. In my opinion they should make it the same for both reg and res soldiers on CL C service.

Anyone else think this or differently?

Teager

 

[stokerwes]

I think that as long as there was no break in service the rate should be the same for Reg and Res force.

 

[dapaterson]

Policy never exists in a vacuum.  I suspect that, when written, the policy assumed that an individual would be released quickly.  Current CF policy provides for increased periods of retention following injury.

This does highlight that the policy needs to be reviewed.

I would suggest starting the ball rolling with a memo up your chain of command, pointing out the discrepancy, and requesting that they go up, through their chain of command, to seek an explanation.

 

[Teager]

Well at least we know policys can be changed  :nod:

As for the chain of command I would use that method but for myself theres issues with it which I won't discuess here but if you want to know the issues send me a msg.

I'd prefer to go to my local MP as SISIP changes would come from the MND who is the insurance policy holder. My point though was to see if anyone here was also feeling the same way or is satisfied with the way things are currently.

Cheers,

Teager

 

[Nemo888]

There is no 40k minimum on SISIP rehab, but I do believe it is 75% of your rank on release. A Cpl would have to live on 1600$ after taxes every month. After that is exhausted you start VAC rehab with the 40k minimum. No idea about LTD. That would come after they are exhausted. The systems have gotten so much better since 2005 when the cost cutting New Veterans Charter was introduced.

 

[Teager]

Nemo MND announced that to stay in line with VAC he was bumping the minimum of SISIP LTD to 40k before taxes. I don't have an article off hand but can provide with the announcement. It was only announced within the last year so it is fairly new.

 

[Nemo888]

Currently there is no 40 k minimum. SISIP has no time frame for it to be introduced. In February they stated that only VAC has the top up while on rehab. You get 24 months on SISIP rehab, then 24 months on VAC rehab. If the changes are coming no one has told the front line pers at SISIP.

If you are currently a reserve Cpl and went on SISIP voc rehab today you would only get 1600$ a month to live on. MND makes many promises but only keeps a few.

 

[Teager]

Nemo this article is linked on the SISIP page.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/news-nouvelles/news-nouvelles-eng.asp?id=4138

MND says “From now on retroactive to October 3rd, 2011 our ill and injured veterans will receive a minimum pre-tax income of $40,000 a year while continuing to have access to vocational rehabilitation training."

From my understanding the article is dated April 10, 2012 that from then on retroactive to October 3, 2011 the 40k would kick in.

If this is not the case and you know first hand then this is a major issue that needs to be brought to light. What I'm going to do first is call SISIP and confirm if they have implemented what the MND says or not and go from there.

Cheers

 

[Nemo888]

As far as I know that only applies to LTD, permanent long term disability with no ability to be retrained. SISIP vocational rehab, which is what most get, is 75% of rank. The best plan is to look for a course now as the retraining programs are pretty awesome. They will pay up to 26k for that and throw in some expenses too. I missed the boat on that, but whatever. Compared to 2005 getting some time off and being able to rock the physio and gym makes me grateful as hell. I don't even like remembering how much pain I was in and what a struggle it was to get proper medical treatment.