Author Topic: Logistic Vehicle Modernization Project - Replacing everything from LUVW to SHLVW  (Read 295869 times)

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Offline Colin P

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I bet that in civy hands they have sorted out the majority of the issues in a couple of months

Offline Kat Stevens

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The Iveco that LS was ripper off, err based on, was quite a good vehicle. Only when it got Canadianized did it become an embarrassment. Same thing with the Iltis.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline GK .Dundas

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I bet that in civy hands they have sorted out the majority of the issues in a couple of months
While I'm not an automotive expert of any sort  I suspect my Provincial Highway Department is  or at least was.
Here in Manitoba a group of provincial mechanics  got their hands on a LSVW for a couple of hours and examined it .To  put it mildly they were not impressed .
The story goes that they produced a four page list of defects that had to be fixed before they would even think , think of allowing it on any road in the province. Assuming of course that it was a civilian vehicle .
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 00:50:56 by GK .Dundas »
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Offline MilEME09

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Anyone hear if the delivery schedule is on track for the MSVS SMP? first deliveries should be this summer.
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Offline Colin P

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While I'm not an automotive expert of any sort  I suspect my Provincial Highway Department is  or at least was.
Here in Manitoba a group of provincial mechanics  got their hands on a LSVW for a couple of hours and examined it .To  put it mildly they were not impressed .
The story goes that they produced a four page list of defects that had to be fixed before they would even think , think of allowing it on any road in the province. Assuming of course that it was a civilian vehicle .

having seen what they make people go through importing vehicles, most is chickenshit stuff or totally inappropriate to the vehicle in question. 

Offline Log Offr

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Anyone hear if the delivery schedule is on track for the MSVS SMP? first deliveries should be this summer.

First delivery will be December this year. There are challenges with transplanting the Renault production line and supply chain into Canada (Quebec and Saskatchewan), as one might expect. Much of that was based on problems with the numerous sub-contractors that feed said production line and supply chain. It seems its not easy to transplant an operation to the other side of the ocean. The armour and trailers will start trickling in through the fall, but delivery of the trucks themselves won't kick into high gear until 2018. In the meantime, it's AHSVS for the missions, and more of the same for Canada.

Offline Thucydides

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Just as a bit of historical trivia, the US Army's heavy lift truck in the 1960's to early 1980's, the M 520, was not only fully articulated (which gave it some interesting cross country mobility) but also fully amphibious as well.

Funny how something like that was built using 1960 technology, but we can hardly get vehicles with limited cross country mobility today.
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Offline MilEME09

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Just as a bit of historical trivia, the US Army's heavy lift truck in the 1960's to early 1980's, the M 520, was not only fully articulated (which gave it some interesting cross country mobility) but also fully amphibious as well.

Funny how something like that was built using 1960 technology, but we can hardly get vehicles with limited cross country mobility today.

Armies fight wars, wars in places that aren't always paved, and have a gas station at regular distances, people seem to have forgotten that over many decades.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline Colin P

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Just as a bit of historical trivia, the US Army's heavy lift truck in the 1960's to early 1980's, the M 520, was not only fully articulated (which gave it some interesting cross country mobility) but also fully amphibious as well.

Funny how something like that was built using 1960 technology, but we can hardly get vehicles with limited cross country mobility today.

Designed by people like this, not a computer in sight, but a lot of education and experiance.

Offline Chris Pook

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Designed by people like this, not a computer in sight, but a lot of education and experiance.

I miss the smell of a decent pipe.  Contributory to a convivial working atmosphere.
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Offline Log Offr

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For relatively low tech equipment like trucks, Canada buys what industry produces. Our quantities are too small to make designing our own trucks and having someone build them, economically viable. Performance standards are examined and set, but the existing military trucks invariably meet them anyhow (fording depth, mobility, cargo capacity, crane lift capacity, protection, etc).  We then cross check to see which of the upcoming lineups of existing military truck manufacturers, none of whom are Canadian, will meet our requirements. If enough manufacturers have lineups that meet our needs, thus allowing a competitive process, we're good. Since the manufacturers all sell to our NATO partners, who have virtually the same truck requirements as us, the lineups invariably meet Canadian requirements. Its then just a matter of who puts together the best bid package between MAN and Oshkosh and Mercedes and Navistar and Iveco and Mack / Renault, etc.

Offline Colin P

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We can't even write a decent scope of work or contract. Basically all we need to ask is weight class and in service within NATO or countries X,Y and & Z. Then go from there.

Offline Chris Pook

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You could also ask what performance tests they have already passed and service history with other countries (Mean Miles Between Failures).
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Offline Log Offr

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You could also ask what performance tests they have already passed and service history with other countries (Mean Miles Between Failures).

Performance histories in other NATO partners are always requested and provided. Nothing is so straightforward though. The 2010 truck the Americans or Germans are using is not the same as the 2019 truck that Canada will buy, and there are hundreds of pages of other assessments required by PSPC and ISEDC (all on behalf of Treasury Board, sigh). And (worse) technical performance is only one component of the bid evaluation alongside price and industrial benefits. To boot, the bidding companies have their lawyers lined up to jump on any perceived discrepancy in the evaluations. Ain't nothing easy in government procurement.

Offline Chris Pook

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Ain't nothing easy in government procurement.

Sympathies.
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Offline Colin P

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Performance histories in other NATO partners are always requested and provided. Nothing is so straightforward though. The 2010 truck the Americans or Germans are using is not the same as the 2019 truck that Canada will buy, and there are hundreds of pages of other assessments required by PSPC and ISEDC (all on behalf of Treasury Board, sigh). And (worse) technical performance is only one component of the bid evaluation alongside price and industrial benefits. To boot, the bidding companies have their lawyers lined up to jump on any perceived discrepancy in the evaluations. Ain't nothing easy in government procurement.

Make TB hump the logistic support on their backs and trucks will soon be forthcoming. Working in government has taught me to truly despise TB.

Offline Bearpaw

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If you want to get rid of TB interference, just take away their computers, calculators and spreadsheets---they will soon disappear into their rabbit-holes.

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Offline Chris Pook

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How about relocate Hull to St-Boniface?
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Offline Spencer100

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This is going to happen very fast in the automotive world. 

Plus a Canadian connection.   Does the CAF play a roll in this when they cross the bridge?

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170601/NEWS/170609969/army-to-test-autonomous-vehicles-on-blue-water-bridge-i-69#utm_medium=email&utm_source=cdb-michmorning&utm_campaign=cdb-michmorning-20170602


Offline Colin P

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EMP weapons ambushing an autonomous convoy, taking out driving control and self defense system.

Offline captloadie

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As opposed to an EMP taking out driving control and then the ambush taking out the drivers/defenders? I would imagine that there would be eyes in the sky ready to defend any critical autonomous convoy.

Offline daftandbarmy

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EMP weapons ambushing an autonomous convoy, taking out driving control and self defense system.

With everything managed by consultants :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Chris Pook

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With everything managed by consultants :)

The convoy would never get on the road........   ;D
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Offline daftandbarmy

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The convoy would never get on the road........   ;D

Not without a Gannt chart and one helluva PPT presentation it wouldn't :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Chris Pook

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Not without a Gannt chart and one helluva PPT presentation it wouldn't :)

I can point you in the right direction.... for a modest consideration.
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