Author Topic: Pan-Islamic civil war merged mega thread (Sunni vs Shia, and the expansion of IS(IS/IL))  (Read 295386 times)

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Offline S.M.A.

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Re: Spread of ISIS / ISIL Mega Thread
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2014, 11:17:53 »
One by one, these Islamic extremist groups across the world from the BIFF (an MILF-MNLF splinter group) in the southern Philippines to the Pakistani Taliban, each of whom had ties to Al-Qaeda before, are now pledging allegiance to ISIS:

Reuters

Quote
Pakistani Taliban declare allegiance to Islamic State and global jihad
Reuters
By By Saud Mehsud and Maria Golovnina  – 23 hours ago

By Saud Mehsud and Maria Golovnina
DERA ISMAIL KHAN/ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - The Pakistani Taliban declared allegiance to Islamic State on Saturday and ordered militants across the region to help the Middle Eastern jihadist group in its campaign to set up a global Islamic caliphate.

Islamic State, which controls swathes of land in Syria and Iraq, has been making inroads into South Asia, which has traditionally been dominated by local Taliban insurgencies against both the Pakistan and Afghanistan governments.

The announcement comes after a September move by al Qaeda chief, Ayman al-Zawahri, to name former Taliban commander Asim Umar as the "emir" of a new South Asia branch of the network that masterminded the 2001 attacks on the United States.

Although there is little evidence of a firm alliance yet between IS and al Qaeda-linked Taliban commanders, IS activists have been spotted recently in the Pakistani city of Peshawar distributing pamphlets praising the group.

(...SNIPPED)


Agence-France-Presse

Quote
BIFF, Abu Sayyaf pledge allegiance to Islamic State jihadists
By: Agence France-Presse
August 16, 2014 5:33 AM

MANILA, Philippines - Hardline Muslim guerrillas in the Philippines said Friday they have pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, the extremist jihadists who now control large swathes of Iraq and Syria.

Clips have been uploaded in recent weeks on the video sharing site YouTube showing both southern Philippines-based Bangsamoro Islamic Freedom Fighters (BIFF) and the Abu Sayyaf rebels pledging support to the Islamic State (IS).

"We have an alliance with the Islamic State and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi," BIFF spokesman Abu Misry Mama told Agence France-Presse by telephone on Friday, referring to the brutal jihadist group's leader.

Misry confirmed that a YouTube video uploaded on Wednesday, showing a purported BIFF leader flanked by armed men reading a statement of support for the IS, had come from his group.

(...EDITED)

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Offline George Wallace

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Spread of ISIS / ISIL
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2014, 11:44:51 »
I remember the terrorists of the 70s - Red Brigades, Baader-Meinhof, Carlos the Jackal etc. IIRC the terrorists were mostly university grads, upper middle class types with SFA better to do than kill people.

It seems to me that those joining ISIS are the same type.

Poor folk have better things to do than cause mayhem. They have to earn a living.

Germany has changed a lot in the decades since the Wall came down.   Those formerly known as "Gastarbeiter" of the 60's through 80's are now allowed to own property and run businesses. 

This is some of what Germany and the rest of Western Europe are facing today: 

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Pro-ISIS radicals with machetes, knives attack Kurds in Germany (VIDEO)

RT
Published time: October 08, 2014 08:34 Get short URL


Peaceful protests against IS in Syria and Iraq organized by Kurdish nationals in several German cities ended with serious clashes with pro-jihadist Muslims in Hamburg and Celle. Police had to request reinforcements to restore order.

Police in Hamburg, a port city of 1.8 million people, used water cannons, batons and pepper spray late Tuesday to disperse crowds of warring Kurds and pro-jihadist Muslims, armed with knives and brass-knuckles, following a protest against Islamic State militants who are attacking the Kurdish town of Kobani in Syria near the Turkish border.

At first, on Tuesday afternoon about 80 Kurdish protesters occupied Hamburg's central train station for an hour, NDR.de reported. The Kurdish protesters left the railways voluntarily after 6pm, a police spokesman said.

A bigger group of about 500 Kurdish demonstrators marched through downtown Hamburg. On their way, they damaged several cars and Turkish snack bars, breaking panes of glass and throwing around plastic chairs. Police detained 14 rioters.

Later, several hundred Kurdish protesters gathered near the Al Nour Mosque on Steindamm Street near the city’s train station. At about 11:30pm local time (21:30 GMT), the Kurds were attacked by a group of approximately 40 armed supporters of the Islamic State (IS), RT’s Ruptly video news agency reported.

The violent clashes that followed the attack resulted in four people being hospitalized with stab wounds.

Anti-IS demonstrations of Kurds in northern Germany began Monday and were supported by hundreds of protesters in the cities of Bremen, Celle, Göttingen, Hannover, Kiel and Oldenburg.

In most of the cities, protests went off peacefully and were virtually trouble-free, but in Celle police failed to prevent clashes.

The first brawl between about 100 Kurds and Muslims on each side took place Monday, but police in Celle, a town of 71,000, with the help of colleagues from Hannover, Oldenburg and Wolfsburg, prevented serious clashes between the two groups.

On Tuesday, however, the two sides, armed with stones and bottles, attempted to break through police lines to attack each other.

Police in full anti-riot gear used pepper spray and batons to repel the attackers and prevent violence. Though the situation calmed down and no officers were injured, a large police force remains in the city to prevent a possible escalation.

Some of the Muslims taking part in the clashes in Celle were “Chechen nationals” who came there from all over Germany, Cellesche Zeitung reported.

A wave of anti-IS protests organized by Kurdish activists has rocked many European capitals, including London, Brussels, The Hague and in Sweden’s Gothenburg.

The Kurdish diaspora in Europe is protesting that the Islamic State militants in Iraq and Syria are attacking Kurdish communities with impunity, without meeting any serious opposition on the ground apart from Kurdish peshmerga militias. The assault of jihadists on the Kurdish settlement of Kabani in Syria, near the Turkish border has already claimed over 400 lives, while airstrikes by the US and its allies against IS fighters in Syria are not focused on protecting Kobani.

Kristofer Lundberg, an activist with the Socialist Justice Party in Sweden’s Gothenburg who organized and spoke at a 1,000-strong rally in support of Kurdish people in Kobani on Tuesday, told RT: “We demand that Turkey open its border and let the refugees there flee ISIS terror, and also to let the fighters who are waiting at the border go to Kobani to defend the city. Thousands of Kurds are ready to defend Kobani.”



More on LINK.

Celle, for those familiar with the town, seems to always be a town that makes the news when there is violence involved.   :-\


Now we are witnessing the fight of pro ISIS/ISIL supporters against other Muslim sects in Europe. 
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Online jollyjacktar

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Hopefully there will come the day that these pro IS shytes are hunted down in the west by those muslims and others who finally get tired of their BS.  Some vigilante justice sorted out armed robbers in Calgary in the 80's.

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Hopefully there will come the day that these pro IS shytes are hunted down in the west by those muslims and others who finally get tired of their BS.  Some vigilante justice sorted out armed robbers in Calgary in the 80's.

that's wishful thinking. I don't see that ever happening. What I do see happening is the next time there's a protest with Kurds and IS supporters show up, a Kurd with an assault rifle will open fire on the grouped IS supporters (or vice versa)

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It may be wishful, but I would still like to see the pack turn on them like wolves, with the same result.

Offline Thucydides

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No, packs of wild animals fighting in the middle of a city would be much like Montreal during the "Biker War" which finally ended when a small child was killed in a bomb blast aimed at a rival bike gang.

The response then was the same as will be appropriate now: the sheepdogs are released to protect the flock.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Air Force Pilots Say They're Flying Blind Against ISIS

Obama’s no-boots-on-the-ground pledge is keeping America from fighting an effective air campaign in Iraq and Syria.

Within the U.S. Air Force, there’s mounting frustration that the air campaign against ISIS in Syria and Iraq is moving far more slowly than expected. Instead of a fast-moving operation with hundreds of sorties flown in a single day—the kind favored by many in the air service—American warplanes are hitting small numbers of targets after a painstaking and cumbersome process.

The single biggest problem, current and former Air Force officers say, is the so-called kill-chain of properly identifying and making sure the right target is being attacked. At the moment, that process is very complicated and painfully slow.

“The kill-chain is very convoluted,” one combat-experienced Air Force A-10 Warthog pilot told The Daily Beast. “Nobody really has the control in the tactical environment.”

A major reason why: the lack of U.S. ground forces to direct American air power against ISIS positions. Air power, when it is applied in an area where the enemy is blended in with the civilian population, works best when there are troops on the ground who are able to call in strikes. From the sky, it can be hard to tell friend from foe. And by themselves, the GPS coordinates used to guide bombs aren’t nearly precise enough; landscape and weather can throw the coordinates off by as much as 500 feet. The planes need additional information from the guys on the ground. The only other option is to use laser-guided bombs, but even then the target has to be correctly indentified beforehand.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/10/troops-grumbling-that-obama-s-air-war-against-isis-is-too-little-too-late.html
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No, packs of wild animals fighting in the middle of a city would be much like Montreal during the "Biker War" which finally ended when a small child was killed in a bomb blast aimed at a rival bike gang.

The response then was the same as will be appropriate now: the sheepdogs are released to protect the flock.

In a perfect world, the sheep dogs wouldn't have their teeth kicked out already by the farmer and they wouldn't be on a Bug's Bunny dog's choke collar and line.  And the farmer wouldn't be a total ***** in dealing with the wolves when caught.  We need a trapper who wants to harvest hides.  Not to mention that some of the wolves have laughed at the dogs looking at them and then letting them run off to Syria.  Now they've let, so it's reported, 80+ of the bastards back into the country.

You don't need to have Montreal style biker wars to get the result.  The group could self identify these assholes, as I also believe to a great extent the sheepdogs are incapable of picking out the wolves in sheep's clothing, and frogmarch the bastards into the dog kennels.  This cancer is eating away at their communities, stealing their youngster and making the collective look bad.  They are, I believe, the ones who are capable of stamping it out by turning on the assholes who are radicalizing the others.  They can find out who they are better than the dogs.

Forgive me if I have little faith in the system if what I see here in Canada and Europe is what is happening to the radicals.  (SFA)

Offline S.M.A.

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Indonesian suicide bomber dies fighting for ISIS in Iraq
« Reply #58 on: October 14, 2014, 07:38:34 »
Another example of how far the recruitment efforts of ISIS have reached despite efforts to curb it:

Agence-France-Presse

Quote
Indonesian suicide bomber dies fighting with IS in Iraq

JAKARTA - An Indonesian suicide bomber has died fighting with the Islamic State organization in Iraq, a monitoring group said Tuesday, sparking fresh concern from Jakarta authorities who fear the group is spawning a new generation of radicals.

The bomber is believed to have died in a weekend attack in Iraq, and police suspect a total of five Indonesians have now been killed while fighting with jihadist groups this year in the Middle East.

Reports of foreigners from various countries heading to fight with IS, which controls vast swathes of territory in Iraq and Syria, have raised fears they could return home and launch attacks.

Authorities in Indonesia, which has the world's biggest Muslim population, estimate that around 60 Indonesians have headed to the Middle East to fight with IS but analysts think the real figure may be as high as 200.

(...SNIPPED)

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This podcast from the BBC is well worth the 25 minutes spent listening to a former Brit CDS on the whole ISIS fight (also available here if the previous link doesn't work for you) ....
Quote
The US led military operation against the so-called Islamic State organisation has raised a host of awkward questions. Is the makeshift coalition fighting a war, or mounting an anti-terror operation? What will victory look like, and how long will it take? HARDtalk speaks to General Lord Richards, who recently retired as Britain's top military chief. He has led military operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and Sierra Leone. What does he make of this latest one?
Don't be put off too much by the tone of questioning - the aim of the program is to have the host ask VERY tough questions to ALL guests, no matter what their political position or views.
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Saudis sentence outspoken Shi'ite cleric to death
« Reply #60 on: October 15, 2014, 13:14:43 »
The Saudis show their intolerance for the Shias in their country:

Reuters

Quote
Saudi Arabia sentences outspoken Shi'ite cleric to death: brother
Reuters

 By Angus McDowall


RIYADH (Reuters) - A Saudi judge sentenced to death a prominent cleric on Wednesday who has called for greater rights for the kingdom's Shi'ites, the cleric's brother said, two years after his arrest prompted deadly protests in the oil-producing east of the country.

Sheikh Nimr al-Nimr was detained in July 2012 following demonstrations that erupted in February 2011 in Qatif district, home to many of the Sunni-ruled country's Shi'ite minority.

His brother, Mohammed al-Nimr, reported Wednesday's sentencing on his Twitter account.

The sentence could raise tensions in Qatif, which has historically been the focal point of anti-government demonstrations demanding an end to discrimination, but where the frequency of protests has died down over the past year.

(...SNIPPED)


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Offline Thucydides

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Interesting if somewhat bizarre counter response to the growth of ISIS: Westerners going to the Middle East to fight them. Now this is more on the scale of individual adventurers going off to fight for their cause de jour, but if there was some sort of organizing principle we may see the growth of something like the "International Brigades" in the 1930's (but who will play the part of the Communist International in this case?):

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/15/bikers-volunteers-dutch-isis/17295699/

Quote
Westerners volunteer to take on the Islamic State
Gregg Zoroya, USA TODAY 8:23 p.m. EDT October 15, 2014

As an estimated 2,000 expatriates from the United States and other Western nations join the Islamic State to fulfill a passion for conflict or jihad, a much smaller number of Westerners have signed up to fight against the militants. The latest: members of a biker gang from Holland.

The head of Never Surrender, Klaas Otto, told a Dutch radio station that three of its members went to Iraq to join Kurdish fighters battling the Islamic State, also known as ISIL or ISIS.

The gang touts a quote from Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel on its Facebook page: "I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides."

The story was first reported Wednesday by NPR.

The bikers join others outraged over the brutality displayed by Islamic State fighters, who have seized wide swaths of territory in Iraq and Syria. A former U.S. soldier from Racine, Wis., joined Kurdish fighters in northern Iraq and was wounded in a mortar attack.

"I couldn't just sit and watch Christians being slaughtered anymore," Jordan Matson, 28, told USA TODAY last week from a hospital bed in Derike, Syria. "These people are fighting for their homes, for everything they have."

Matson said he met one other American fighting the militants.

An Air Force veteran from Ohio, Brian Wilson, 43, said he fought in Syria with the Kurds, adding that a few other Americans have done the same, NBC News reported.

"They're nice, very accommodating, hospitable," Wilson said of the Kurds.

Al Jazeera reported that a few hundred Kurds from Europe also headed into the fight against the Islamic State.

President Barack Obama and military chiefs from more than 20 nations gathered in Washington on Tuesday in a show of unity against the Islamic State group. The president also talked about how "the world is not doing enough" to fight Ebola. (Oct. 14) AP

The U.S. government said about 100 Americans have traveled to, or tried to reach, the Middle East to join the Islamic State. A small number have died in the conflict. Some 2,000 Westerners from 80 countries have gone to Syria to fight with the Islamic State, according to government estimates, raising fears many could return to commit terrorist acts at home.

There was no government information offered Wednesday on how many Westerners have gone into the area seeking to fight against the militants.

A U.S.-led coalition is attacking the militants with airstrikes, but the U.S. has ruled out committing ground forces, prompting talk of other fighters taking on the Islamic State.

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly recommended in recent weeks that President Obama raise 25,000 mercenaries to battle the Islamic State. The use of such forces has been banned by the United Nations General Assembly.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline S.M.A.

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The kind of violence between Sunni and Shia that will continue beyond our lifetimes? Even the enmity between Catholics and other Christian (Protestant) sects, for a time, outlasted the Thirty Years' War in the 1600s.

Reuters

Quote
Suicide bomber kills 19, wounds 28 outside Baghdad Shi'ite mosque
Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:09pm EDT

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A suicide bomber killed 19 people and wounded 28 others on Sunday outside a Shi'ite Muslim mosque in western Baghdad, where mourners were attending a funeral, a police officer and medical official said.

"The attacker approached the entrance of the mosque and blew himself up among the crowd," the police officer said, declining to be named.

(...SNIPPED)


« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 16:23:45 by S.M.A. »
Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
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"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline S.M.A.

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Another front of this perennial Sunni-Shia conflict is in Yemen, where the Shia Houthi rebels taken on local Al Qaeda branch:

Reuters

Quote
Yemen's Houthis dismantle Sanaa airport road camp, gunmen remain
Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:24pm EDT

By Mohammed Ghobari

SANAA (Reuters) - Yemen's Shi'ite Houthi group dismantled a protest camp blocking the country's main airport in Sanaa on Sunday, authorities said, but was keeping its fighters on the streets of the recently seized capital.

The dismantling of the encampment, which allowed traffic to move unobstructed between the airport and the capital for the first time in weeks, came as newly appointed Prime Minister Khaled Bahah, Yemen's ambassador to the United Nations, flew back home to take up his post as part of an agreement aimed at stabilizing the conflict-prone country.

The Houthis captured Sanaa on Sept. 21 after weeks of anti-government protests centering on fuel price rises. The group signed a power-sharing agreement with other political parties soon afterwards, a deal that was sanctioned by President Abd-Rabbu Mansour Hadi, but this has not deterred them from pushing in to other parts of the country.

(...SNIPPED)

Our Country
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"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: We did it ourselves."   - Lao Zi (老子)
-------------------------------------------
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
- Winston Churchill

Offline Colin P

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Interesting if somewhat bizarre counter response to the growth of ISIS: Westerners going to the Middle East to fight them. Now this is more on the scale of individual adventurers going off to fight for their cause de jour, but if there was some sort of organizing principle we may see the growth of something like the "International Brigades" in the 1930's (but who will play the part of the Communist International in this case?):

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/15/bikers-volunteers-dutch-isis/17295699/

I think a lack of a common theme will limit it, many going back have a personal link. I don't see a "Crusader force" of angry Christians getting much love or support over there.

Offline Thucydides

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I think a lack of a common theme will limit it, many going back have a personal link. I don't see a "Crusader force" of angry Christians getting much love or support over there.

Perhaps not over there, but I can imagine "Crusader Forces" springing up in Europe and North America to fight radicalized Islam in their own midst. I also suspect that many of the smaller minority groups like the Kurds, Baloch and so on might be more flexible about having such auxiliary forces operating out of their territories, at least until they get some breathing room of their own.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline George Wallace

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For some this may be great news; for others, it is really bad news to hear:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Isis threatens to kill British jihadis wanting to come home

‘At least 30’ Britons seek to flee Islamic State as it is revealed that a fourth young Muslim from Portsmouth has died in Syria

Mark Townsend
The Observer, Saturday 25 October 2014 16.30 EDT

British jihadi fighters desperate to return home from Syria and Iraq are being issued with death threats by the leadership of Islamic State (Isis), the Observer has learned.

A source with extensive contacts among Syrian rebel groups said senior Isis figures were threatening Britons who were attempting to travel home. He said: “There are Britons who upon wanting to leave have been threatened with death, either directly or indirectly.”

The news comes after it was revealed that another young Muslim from Portsmouth had been killed on the frontline in Syria, the fourth to die from a group of six men known as the “Pompey lads” who travelled together to fight for Isis.

Meanwhile, the former Guantánamo Bay detainee Moazzam Begg confirmed that he was also aware of dozens of British men keen to return to the UK but who were trapped in Syria and Iraq, in effect held by a group they wanted to leave. Begg said he knew of more than 30 who wanted to come back. They had travelled to join rebels fighting the Syrian regime of President Bashar al-Assad but had subsequently become embroiled with Isis, some for language reasons – Isis had more English-speaking members.

In Syria, Muhammad Mehdi Hassan, 19, from Portsmouth was killed in fighting on Friday. He is understood to have died during the Isis offensive to capture the Syrian border city of Kobani, which is continuing.

The chairman of Portsmouth’s Jami mosque, Abdul Jalil, said: “It has been confirmed with the family that he has died. Right now they are very upset. I am saddened and again shocked for the community about this news.” During Friday prayers at the mosque, young Muslims were urged not to travel to Syria.

Begg, whose offer to help secure the release of British hostage Alan Henning from Isis was rejected by the British government months before the Briton was killed, and who has extensive contacts in Syria, said: “When it becomes solidified as an Islamic State, a caliph, and you swear allegiance, thereafter if you do something disobedient you are now disobeying the caliph and could be subject to disciplinary measures which could include threats of death or death.”

Begg, 46, from Birmingham, called for Britain to introduce an amnesty for returnees from Syria and Iraq and to replicate the rehabilitation programmes of countries such as Denmark which help those who come back to get their lives back on track without the threat of prosecution. Begg said that groups had approached him to try to put pressure on the government to show leniency to disillusioned fighters returning. Recently, the government suggested British jihadis who went to fight in Iraq or Syria could be tried for treason.

He said that a lot of Britons were currently “stuck between a rock and a hard place”. He added: “There are a large number of people out there who want to come back. The number in January was around 30, that was the number given to me. That number has definitely increased since.”

Begg, outreach director for pressure group Cage, recently spent more than seven months in custody in Belmarsh prison after being arrested and questioned over a trip he had made to Syria in 2013 before being released earlier this month after it emerged secret intelligence material had been withheld from police and prosecutors.

He said that many of those who had gone to Syria to fight government forces and returned because they did not want to become embroiled in the rebel infighting were jailed despite being ideologically opposed to Isis.

“Some of the guys I met in Belmarsh had gone to Syria to help in a humanitarian defensive role, stayed for a few weeks and, crucially, didn’t want to get involved with the infighting between rebel groups yet the British government imprisoned them. If you come back because of the infighting it means that you are not ideologically attached to groups like Isis.”

Hassan’s Twitter account has been quiet since 17 October, the last entry documenting the frequency of US air strikes which have been targeting Isis positions near Kobani for weeks. Images of the teenager’s dead body with fellow fighters calling him a martyr emerged

Last Tuesday it was confirmed that another of the so-called “ Pompey lads”, Manunur Roshid, 24, was also killed in fighting on the Syrian frontline with reports suggesting he also died in the battle to seize Kobani, which borders Turkey. Reports of their death follow that of two other Portsmouth men, Ifthekar Jaman, 23, last December and Muhammad Hamidur Rahman, 25, in August.

Hassan’s death leaves Assad Uzzaman, 25, fighting in Syria with Isis while the other member of the group, Mashadur Choudhury, 31, returned to the UK shortly after arriving in Syria and is currently in jail.

The group are among an estimated 500 Britons who have travelled to fight in Iraq and Syria. Overall, 24 Britons are believed to have died after travelling to fight in the bloody civil war, says King’s College London’s International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation (ICSR), meaning that British jihadis are being killed in the conflict in Syria and Iraq at a rate of one every three weeks, according to the most thorough documentation of the death toll to date.

Hassan was part of a group of five calling themselves the Britani Brigade Bangladeshi Bad Boys. The fanatics, all from Portsmouth, had been seduced by glamorous tales of martyrdom to join Isis in establishing a Muslim caliphate in the Middle East.

Shiraz Maher, from ICSR, said: “Now, of the six men who went from Portsmouth to fight jihad in Syria, four have now died and one is in prison.

“We know that Hassan was fighting for the battle of Kobani, likely alongside Manunur Rohsid, who was reported killed a few days ago.”




More on LINK.
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Live by the sword ....  Funny how sometimes the grass isn't ALWAYS greener, like the jihad peddlers lead one to believe.

Mind you, great "anti-ambassadors" once back?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 22:31:43 by milnews.ca »
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TS for them.  They've made their bed and will have to lie in it.  Hopefully it's for a dirt nap.

Offline Thucydides

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The aftermath. Once this "30 years war" ends, most of the historic borders we grew up with will be erased. Natural cantonments like the Anatolian highlands, "Kurdistan" and the Iranian plateau will remain as bastions for the people's living within, but otherwise much of the region will have dissolved into something else. In the more distant past, the "something else" was a series of city states astride the trade routes and in control of resources like water and whatever arable land existed. Not sure what the future version of that will look like:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/10/25/the-imaginary-borders-of-the-middle-east/

Quote
The Erased Borders of the Middle East
Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon gave a wide-ranging and provocative interview to NPR earlier this week. Of particular interest was his recognition that the national borders that were created after World War I are dissolving:

The borders of many Arab states were drawn up by Westerners a century ago, and wars in recent years show that a number of them are doomed to break apart, according to Ya’alon, a career soldier who became Israel’s defense minister last year.

“We have to distinguish between countries like Egypt, with their history. Egypt will stay Egypt,” Ya’alon, who is on a visit to Washington, tells Morning Edition’s Steve Inskeep.

In contrast, Ya’alon says, “Libya was a new creation, a Western creation as a result of World War I. Syria, Iraq, the same — artificial nation-states — and what we see now is a collapse of this Western idea.”

Asked if Middle Eastern borders are likely to change in the coming years, Ya’alon says: “Yes, absolutely. It has been changed already. Can you unify Syria? [President] Bashar al-Assad is controlling only 25 percent of the Syrian territory. We have to deal with it.”

Ya’alon is right. As our own Adam Garfinkle concluded in June about Iraq: “The Iraqi state in its historic territorial configuration is gone—solid gone, and it ain’t coming back.” The region’s other “artificial nation-states” aren’t going to return to the status quo ante bellum either. Whatever comes out of the current war, it won’t look like the old landscape, and we shouldn’t imagine that there are natural nations waiting to be created out of the ethno-tribal-religious anarchy that the Middle East is witnessing.

Yaalon’s entire interview is quite thought-provoking, particularly his analysis of the latest Gaza war and the Palestinian right of return. Read the whole thing here.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Brasidas

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The aftermath. Once this "30 years war" ends, most of the historic borders we grew up with will be erased. Natural cantonments like the Anatolian highlands, "Kurdistan" and the Iranian plateau will remain as bastions for the people's living within, but otherwise much of the region will have dissolved into something else. In the more distant past, the "something else" was a series of city states astride the trade routes and in control of resources like water and whatever arable land existed. Not sure what the future version of that will look like:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/blog/2014/10/25/the-imaginary-borders-of-the-middle-east/

I'm not so sure I see Iran's borders being erased, or Turkey giving up its Kurdish territories.

Offline Thucydides

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Kurdistan extends beyond the current Turkish territory, including parts of Syria, Iraq and Iran. Parts of Iran is also inhabited by the Baloch people, who also inhabit parts of Pakistan.

Borders often change due to issues like demographics, changing climate/rainfall/arability or even different opportunities (people leaving one polity for another with lower taxes and regulatory burdens). Indeed, one of the reasons for the "Arab Spring" and subsequent instability is the impact of these sorts of changes pushing against the boundaries of brittle and authoritarian societies until they break.

I know Turkey and Iran will certainly fight to retain their current geographical boundaries, but in the end, even they may be swept by overwhelming changes.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline George Wallace

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Kurdistan extends beyond the current Turkish territory, including parts of Syria, Iraq and Iran. Parts of Iran is also inhabited by the Baloch people, who also inhabit parts of Pakistan.

Borders often change due to issues like demographics, changing climate/rainfall/arability or even different opportunities (people leaving one polity for another with lower taxes and regulatory burdens). Indeed, one of the reasons for the "Arab Spring" and subsequent instability is the impact of these sorts of changes pushing against the boundaries of brittle and authoritarian societies until they break.

I know Turkey and Iran will certainly fight to retain their current geographical boundaries, but in the end, even they may be swept by overwhelming changes.

Yes, and the Sykes–Picot Agreement between Britain, France and the assent of Russia drew those lines on the map in 1916.  Europeans building empires carved up the traditional boundaries of the inhabitants, making new ones with no consideration of the ethnicity and cultures they were breaking up.  Those are the latest 'conquerors' to partition those lands.  How many times the map has been redrawn in that region over the centuries can't be counted.
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Considering those lines were drawn with the Ottoman provinces in mind and a trade of what worthy spoils they were, not exactly a new concept and certainly judging by population movements, the Palestinian Mandate was more popular than the old Ottoman Empire administration. Also England was used as arbitrator for the border dispute between the Ottoman Empire and the Persian Empire back the 1600's, which led to the modern border between Iran and Iraq. 

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oh yes, and we know the current borders are so harmonious...