Poll

The RCN has its old rank titles and executive curl back.  What should be the next step for the CF rank structure?

Nothing.  The current rank system works, so leave it alone.
120 (58.5%)
Complete return to the pre-unification ranks of the 50s and early 60s.
40 (19.5%)
Complete return to post unification ranks of the 70s and early 80s.
1 (0.5%)
Officers only return to the pre-unification ranks of the 50s and early 60s.
9 (4.4%)
Copy the UK rank system - it is the prototype anyway.
17 (8.3%)
Copy the US rank system - they are the new colonial master.
2 (1%)
Create a whole new Canadian system.
8 (3.9%)
Lobby for standardized NATO rank insignia.
7 (3.4%)
Copy the French rank system - it is the other founding nation's turn
1 (0.5%)

Total Members Voted: 204

Author Topic: "Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation  (Read 1972521 times)

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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: "Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation
« Reply #5750 on: April 06, 2017, 20:46:35 »
I had the honour and privilege of meeting a WW2 405 Pathfinder pilot at Camp Hill several years ago.  Humbling.

A recent article about 405 Sqn and the Pathfinder Force.  http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/article-template-standard.page?doc=longest-three-minutes-of-your-life-405-squadron-relives-past-with-former-lancaster-airman/iyg2f4h7

405 Squadron Pathfinder Lieutenant-Colonel (retired) Hubley is in his 96th year, but you’d never know it by his appearance. Wearing an old CANEX jacket plastered with RCAF badges, with a rack of miniature medals extending across the full breadth of his chest, he is beyond proud to be affiliated with the RCAF.

Though he earned many honours, including the Distinguished Flying Cross, and received the French Légion d'honneur, presented to him on June 20, 2014, at 12 Wing Shearwater, Nova Scotia, his most prized possession is his Pathfinder Wings badge, which, he explains, was hard to earn and easy to lose. To retain Pathfinder Wings, you were required to complete an entire tour comprising 45 sorties over Europe. Given that the life expectancy of bomber aircrew was notoriously short, completing 45 was a significant achievement. Lieutenant-Colonel Hubley and his crew completed 60.


 :salute: to them all.

There is a lot of history in the units of the RCAF (including the ones no longer on our Order of Battle), 428 included.

One of my Dad's childhood buddies was Reg Lane, who I met several times when I was a kid.

I had no idea what he had done as a Pathfinder until I read his Obit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1448243/Lieutenant-General-Reg-Lane.html
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: "Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation
« Reply #5751 on: April 06, 2017, 21:21:48 »
A little more for you, if you've not seen it before.  A great picture of the crew of KB700 included before leaving for Europe.

http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/s,reglane.html


Hopefully these gents, as they rest, take some pride that 405 has still taken the lead in some operations, still being the *first in* in the long-range community as it exists today.

Ducimus
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 21:32:25 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: "Re-Royalization", "Re-Britification" and the Heritage Transformation
« Reply #5752 on: April 07, 2017, 23:36:50 »
A little more for you, if you've not seen it before.  A great picture of the crew of KB700 included before leaving for Europe.

http://www.bombercommandmuseum.ca/s,reglane.html


Hopefully these gents, as they rest, take some pride that 405 has still taken the lead in some operations, still being the *first in* in the long-range community as it exists today.

Ducimus

I saw one of those photos of him in the air museum in Nanton.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MCG

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The fashion projects continue to progress with the newer new rank for Army officers & new wings for the RCAF.

Quote
CANFORGEN 089/17 COMD CA 001/17 111400Z MAY 17

VIMY STAR DISTRIBUTION

UNCLASSIFIED

REFERENCE: CANFORGEN 053/16 EVOLUTION OF CA OFFICER RANK

1. THIS MSG APPLIES TO ALL CAF OFFICERS, REG AND RES, WHO WEAR THE ARMY UNIFORM

2. AS PART OF PHASE THREE OF THE REFERENCED CANFORGEN, A NEW METAL RANK STAR FOR CA OFFICERS WILL BE IMPLEMENTED IN APR 17 ON OFFICER SVC DRESS TUNICS.

3. THERE IS NO CHANGE TO THE CROWN METAL RANK BADGE OR THE STAR OF THE ORDER OF THE GARTER RANK BADGE CURRENTLY WORN BY OFFICERS. THIS CHANGE TO SVC DRESS TUNIC RANK BADGES WILL NOT AFFECT CADPAT OR ECU CLOTH SLIP-ONS/PATCHES, SVC DRESS CLOTH SLIP-ONS, OR MESS DRESS RANK BADGES, WHICH REMAIN THE SAME

4. STARTING 01 APR 17, CA OFFICERS ARE TO LOG IN TO THEIR LOGISTIK UNICORP CLOTHING ON-LINE ACCOUNT TO ORDER THE VIMY STAR. UPON LOGGING IN, THE SYSTEM WILL DETECT THAT AN ENTITLED OFFICER NEEDS TO ORDER THE NEW VIMY STAR AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY ADD THEM TO THEIR CART BASED ON THE PRE-DETERMINED SCALE OF ISSUE. THE MBR THEN NEEDS TO COMPLETE THE CHECKOUT PROCESS TO HAVE THEM SHIPPED TO THEIR DESIRED ADDRESS. IF A MBR HAS ALREADY SUBMITTED AN ORDER THROUGH LOGISTIK UNICORP FOR THE VIMY STAR, THE ORDERS WILL SHIP 01 APR 17. THE CURRENT METAL RANK STAR WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE THROUGH CLOTHING ONLINE AS OF 01 APR 17

5.AT THE CURRENT TIME, ONLY GOLD VIMY STARS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED THROUGH LOGISTIK UNICORP. FOR CORPS AND REGTS WHO WEAR SILVER, BLACK OR GUN-METAL RANK AND ACCOUTREMENTS, VIMY STARS IN THESE COLOURS WILL BE PROVIDED BY LOGISTIK UNICORP IN THE COMING MONTHS. INDIVS IN THESE REGTS AND CORPS ARE TO CONTINUE WEARING THEIR CURRENTLY HELD ACCOUTREMENTS UNTIL VIMY STARS OF THE CORRECT COLOUR AND QUALITY ARE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE SUP SYSTEM. DIST DETAILS WILL BE PROVIDED IN A SUBSEQUENT CANFORGEN

6.CA OFFICERS MAY COMMENCE WEARING THE VIMY STAR AS SOON AS IT IS RECEIVED. ALL CA OFFICERS WHO WEAR GOLD ACCOUTREMENTS ARE EXPECTED TO WEAR THE VIMY STAR NLT 01 SEP 17

Quote
FLYING AND OCCUPATION BADGE UPDT PROJECT DISTRIBUTION UPDATE

UNCLASSIFIED

REF: CANFORGEN 035/17 C AIR FORCE 11/17 131500Z FEB 17

1. THIS MESSAGE IS AN UPDATE TO REF. THE SECOND TRANCHE OF BADGES WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR BASE/WING CLOTHING STORES TO ORDER FROM THE DEPOTS STARTING 1 MAY 17. THE EXPECTED RELEASE OF FUTURE TRANCHES IS UPDATED AS PER BELOW

2. TRANCHE 2 COMPRISES THE FOLLOWING CLOTH TRADE BADGES AND WILL AVAILABLE AS OF 1 MAY 17: AERE, AM SUP, AVS TECH, AVN TECH, AWS TECH, NDT TECH, AEROMEDICAL EVACUATION, AIRBORNE WARNING AND CONTROL, FLIGHT CREW, FLIGHT SURGEON, FLIGHT TEST ENGINEER, TACTICAL HELICOPTER OBSERVER. FINALLY, THE ACS TECH BADGE WILL BE AVAILABLE BY 30 JUNE 2017

3. NEXT TRANCHE RELEASES ARE UPDATED AS FOL:

a. METAL MEDICAL BRANCH PIN - JULY 2017

b. LOG BRANCH (INC FSA AND HRA VICE RMS) - NOVEMBER 2017

c. CONSTRUCTION ENGINEERING BRANCH - DECEMBER 2017

d. MPS, INT, MUSIC, MET TECH - NOVEMBER 2017

e. COMMUNICATIONS BRANCH, PA AND PERSONNEL BRANCHES - DECEMBER 2017

f. METAL FULL WING FLYING BADGES - DECEMBER 2017

g. METAL UPSWEPT WING FLYING BADGES - JANUARY 2018

h. MESS DRESS MINIATURE DESIGNS - FEBRUARY 2018

4. BASE/WING CLOTHING STORES ARE REMINDED TO ORDER ONLY BADGES THAT ARE REQUIRED AS INITIAL ISSUE IN ORDER TO AVOID STOCKOUTS. ORDERING FOR STOCK WILL BE PERMITTED ONCE INITIAL ISSUE OF BADGES IS COMPLETE

5. MEMBERS ARE ADVISED THAT AS PER 3 H. ABOVE FOBUP IS UPDATING MESS DRESS MINIATURES. THE THREAD COLOUR WILL REMAIN GOLD IN ORDER TO MATCH WITH THE MESS DRESS

Offline PuckChaser

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Quote
CANFORGEN 089/17 COMD CA 001/17 111400Z MAY 17
4. STARTING 01 APR 17, CA OFFICERS ARE TO LOG IN TO THEIR LOGISTIK UNICORP CLOTHING ON-LINE ACCOUNT TO ORDER THE VIMY STAR. UPON LOGGING IN, THE SYSTEM WILL DETECT THAT AN ENTITLED OFFICER NEEDS TO ORDER THE NEW VIMY STAR AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY ADD THEM TO THEIR CART BASED ON THE PRE-DETERMINED SCALE OF ISSUE. THE MBR THEN NEEDS TO COMPLETE THE CHECKOUT PROCESS TO HAVE THEM SHIPPED TO THEIR DESIRED ADDRESS. IF A MBR HAS ALREADY SUBMITTED AN ORDER THROUGH LOGISTIK UNICORP FOR THE VIMY STAR, THE ORDERS WILL SHIP 01 APR 17. THE CURRENT METAL RANK STAR WILL NO LONGER BE AVAILABLE THROUGH CLOTHING ONLINE AS OF 01 APR 17

Man, now that we've got timely passage of information down to a science, we can focus on metal stars.  :facepalm:

Offline LunchMeat

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Man, now that we've got timely passage of information down to a science, we can focus on metal stars.  :facepalm:

Is the Vimy Star now permanent or will it be only for 2017-2018? The reason I ask is, with LogistikUnicorp's notoriously unpredictable supply and shipping, by the time most officers will receive their Vimy Stars, it'll be time to turn them in for the originals anyway.....
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline PuckChaser

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RUMINT is permanent. I wanted a Vimy Ridge pin though, could have gone beside my Year of the Veteran pin.

Offline daftandbarmy

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RUMINT is permanent. I wanted a Vimy Ridge pin though, could have gone beside my Year of the Veteran pin.

And then we can draw a sash, upon which we may affix the War of 1812 pin, and all these other bits and pieces that descend upon us these days :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MilEME09

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And then we can draw a sash, upon which we may affix the War of 1812 pin, and all these other bits and pieces that descend upon us these days :)

Is it sad I feel like all the uniform crap we are wasting money on makes me feel like our uniforms will look like the north koreans sooner then later?
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline mick

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CDS sporting new command badge at NATO summit this week:

http://nato.int/cps/en/natohq/photos_143755.htm

Offline mick

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^ image 7 of 7

Offline daftandbarmy

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CDS sporting new command badge at NATO summit this week:

http://nato.int/cps/en/natohq/photos_143755.htm

As well as all the jump wings :)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline medicineman

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Just had my neck hair stand up seeing that Croat flag in that pic...I wonder if the two ran into each other in the 90's  ;D.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline MilEME09

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Just had my neck hair stand up seeing that Croat flag in that pic...I wonder if the two ran into each other in the 90's  ;D.

MM

"Just remember, we kicked your *** at Medak"
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline Eye In The Sky

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As well as all the jump wings :)

Whats that thing...lead by example or something or other...
"Stop telling everyone I'm an *******; I like to see the look on their face when they realize it for themselves..."

Offline Eye In The Sky

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The fashion projects continue to progress with the newer new rank for Army officers & new wings for the RCAF.

RCAF Command badge is coming soon, as well.  Saw something about it in the RCAF Clothing / Dress Committee minutes from Nov 2016 (something like that), and is supposed to be issued this spring/summer.

At least they could have waited and changed it *all at once* once all the bits and pieces were in the system. 
"Stop telling everyone I'm an *******; I like to see the look on their face when they realize it for themselves..."

Offline Old EO Tech

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As well as all the jump wings :)

Regs do allow you to wear your foreign jump wings when at events hosted by those countries...so being a NATO event that pretty much allows you to wear any NATO wings you have earned.  So nothing amiss here at all.


Offline medicineman

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Whats that thing...lead by example or something or other...

You mean "When in Rome, do like the Romans"?

 ;D

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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From CFP 265, Ch 3, Sect 3

6. Personnel that have been issued two or more flying and specialist skill badges for permanent retention, including authorized foreign insignia, may wear the badges as for and in conjunction with commendations to a maximum number of badges where by the badges of lower precedence, in miniature metal format, will fit in a line vertically centered on the left pocket or position of the left pocket
beginning 3 cm below the bottom of the pocket flap or 9 cm below the pocket opening (navy tunics) and do not go further than 15cm from the top of the pocket flap or opening (navy tunics); The top badge will begin just below the row of medals when wearing medals.

FOREIGN FLYING AND SPECIALIST SKILL BADGES
12. Personnel who have been presented foreign Flying and Specialist Skill badges from allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, shall wear the applicable CAF badge in accordance with wear instructions above.

13. Where an equivalent CAF badge has not been designed or approved for wear, the foreign badge presented for the prescribed qualification shall be worn like a CAF badge in accordance with wear instructions above. If wearing both a CAF badge and a foreign badge, the CAF badge shall take precedence.

14. The following prescribed foreign qualification badges are authorized for wear on
the CAF uniform:
a. United States Army Ranger Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
b. United States Army Special Forces Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
c. United States Sapper Badge (a cloth sleeve badge);
d. United States Army Ranger Badge (metal pocket badge);
e. United States Army Special Forces Badge (metal pocket badge);
f. United States Air Assault Badge (a metal pocket badge);
g. Colombian Lancero Badge (a metal pocket badge); and
h. Brazilian Jungle Warfare Badge (a metal pocket badge).

15. Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress
jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned
.

Unless I am reading wrong, the only thing possibly contrary to 265 are the (german?) Jump Wings over the name tag.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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You mean "When in Rome, do like the Romans"?

 ;D

MM

There's that too!

Hard to follow the dress manual 100% when there's mistakes in it;  Loadmasters are flight crew, not aircrew *specialization vice a trade* (not by my word, but by the CFAOs) and the new 265 has that incorrect (Pg3-3-5). 
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Offline mick

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I would say that the German wings are actually being worn correctly (right breast of service dress jacket), while the U.S. wings on the left are not.

Gen Natynczyk sometimes wore the U.S. Combat Action Badge over his name tag when in the U.S., or meeting with the CJCS.

The highlighted 265 quote doesn't mention foreign badges being worn on the left pocket flap, nor is the U.S. parachute badge authorized for permanent wear, as there is a Canadian equivalent (which Gen Vance is wearing).

Are ANY badges ever authorized for wear on the LEFT pocket flap?

Offline eliminator

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Are ANY badges ever authorized for wear on the LEFT pocket flap?

I believe female members have the option of wearing their lower left pocket insignia on the flap, such as commendations.

Offline Jed

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I believe female members have the option of wearing their lower left pocket insignia on the flap, such as commendations.

What about those troops that identify as 'female'?  8)
As the old man used to say: " I used to be a coyote, but I'm alright nooooOOOOWWW!"

Offline Simian Turner

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The thing that makes me smile the most (especially now that I am retired and with summer-like weather approaching)  is that the CAF continues to find pretty buttons and bows to pin on an Army DEU that is so 1980-ish out of date.  The Air Force and Navy have "summer and winter" or at least lighter weight fabric, yet those wonderful wool dress tunics and pants are plain silly.  How many forms of dress have evolved - forage caps, berets, CADPAT versions and yet no one has made an effort to improve the appearance of the primary dress uniform that 50% of the CAF wear.  (Latest CAF Total Force breakdown that I saw - Army -50%, Air Force - 32% and Navy- 18%).   :facepalm:
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Offline PuckChaser

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What about those troops that identify as 'female'?  8)

I choose to identify as Air Force Navy, so I can wear my fleece as an outer layer and a ballcap everywhere. I call it "Joint-Gendered".