Author Topic: The PLD Merged Thread- Read Here First  (Read 371390 times)

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Offline 284_226

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2007, 22:01:41 »
Internet policy link: http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6&Section=205.45&sidecat=22&Chapter=205#205.45

Rates:  http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/cfpn/engraph/11_05/11_05_dcba_pld_e.asp

I don't think there was an issue of anyone not being able to find information on PLD.  The issue was this:

Quote
205.45 - POST LIVING DIFFERENTIAL

(1) (Policy) Post Living Differential (PLD) is established as a means of stabilizing the overall cost of living of CF members and their families in order to maintain a relative and predictable cost of living no matter where in Canada the members are posted (excluding isolated posts). PLD rates represent the differential between the CF standard cost of living in Canada and the cost of living at established PLD areas. PLD rates are set annually based on a Treasury Board approved methodology.

Considering the last rate was set in October 05, we're way overdue for a new rate to be set (according to the policy).  It's nice that we're still getting it, but a lot can happen to a geographical area's economic picture in 18 months and it'd be nice to know what the future of PLD is.  Not hearing anything official on the subject when an adjustment is overdue isn't a very good sign.

Offline Not_So_Arty_Newbie

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2007, 22:14:17 »
keep in mind places with little or no PLD now have an average real estate sales price close to Victoria @ 500,000 +/- such as Calgary 402,000 +/- vice say Brandon 125,000 +/- and they did say when it came out don't count on PLD, it is an allowance, just like SDA/FOA and the like. And as for it "being a condition of contract" it wasn't in my contract, or my TOS contract and likely won't be in my next TOS contract. my 2 cents

Offline 284_226

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2007, 22:42:43 »
keep in mind places with little or no PLD now have an average real estate sales price close to Victoria @ 500,000 +/- such as Calgary 402,000 +/- vice say Brandon 125,000 +/- and they did say when it came out don't count on PLD, it is an allowance, just like SDA/FOA and the like. And as for it "being a condition of contract" it wasn't in my contract, or my TOS contract and likely won't be in my next TOS contract. my 2 cents

How many members do we have in Calgary?  :)   I think that's a drop in the bucket, as compared to the changes that have occurred in locations where we have significant numbers of personnel...

I'm also not sure what you're trying to say WRT "they did say when it came out don't count on PLD", and then you compare it to two long-standing and established allowances.  I agree it's not a "contract" issue, but any major changes to the PLD policy would likely be viewed by CF members in the same light as a major change to an environmental allowance.

Offline Not_So_Arty_Newbie

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2007, 23:02:38 »
there are currently CFRC Cal (approx 10) 1 ASG Det Cgy (12) 41 Bde (30) plus all RSS and Cl B staff in the area, close to 2 Bty's (or Coy's) of people, not to mention the guys posted to General Dynamics Canada for one project or another, but FYI Edmonton is in the same boat PLD wise with far more people than Esquimalt has, PLD has nothing to do with how many pers in a geographical area are drawing it

Offline 284_226

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #54 on: April 18, 2007, 23:09:01 »
there are currently CFRC Cal (approx 10) 1 ASG Det Cgy (12) 41 Bde (30) plus all RSS and Cl B staff in the area, close to 2 Bty's (or Coy's) of people, not to mention the guys posted to General Dynamics Canada for one project or another, but FYI Edmonton is in the same boat PLD wise with far more people than Esquimalt has, PLD has nothing to do with how many pers in a geographical area are drawing it

Actually, it does, if I understand it correctly.  If the pot of money from which PLD is drawn upon is fixed, then a relatively small number of people (such as Calgary) getting an increase to PLD would have less of an effect on the pot than would a large increase to an area such as Edmonton or Halifax.

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #55 on: April 18, 2007, 23:17:23 »
That's one effect of PLD distribution, but the calculations to determine PLD rates in an area "has nothing to do with how many pers in a geographical area are drawing it".

Offline 284_226

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2007, 06:16:19 »
That's one effect of PLD distribution, but the calculations to determine PLD rates in an area "has nothing to do with how many pers in a geographical area are drawing it".

I know, and that wasn't my claim.  Earlier posts suggested that the costs of the "pot" have skyrocketed - the crux of what I'm saying is that wouldn't be caused by a relatively small area (CF population-wise) like Calgary getting increases, it would more likely be caused by larger CF population areas getting increases to PLD.  The calculation method is the calculation method; it wouldn't be a contributing factor to a skyrocketing PLD budget.  A $100/month increase to the Edmonton area would have a far greater effect on the bottom line than would a $100 increase to the Calgary area.

In any event, we're pretty much left with "wait and see".  If someone knows what's going on with PLD, they're not tellin' (yet)...   ;)

Offline FinClk

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2007, 06:51:10 »
Not hearing anything official on the subject when an adjustment is overdue isn't a very good sign.
To be more precise, not seeing anything official on paper is the issue as several people have heard official statements to this effect. Like anything else, until its on paper it means little.

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2007, 07:03:36 »
I know they say not to count on PLD, but then why give us a living allowance if we can't count on it to help with our cost of living?? I do have a .ppt on PLD that I found on the din, once I get back to work I can forward the link on to who ever is interested.  It isn't much but it does mention a way ahead for the allowance, it also talks of revamping the allowance to be more effective.

PLD shouldn't be lumped in with SDA since it is location dependant and directly linked to cost of living.  AAA wasn't the greatest (I could never figure out the formula) but at least it didn't fluctuate as much as PLD.

 

Offline Simian Turner

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2007, 08:26:45 »
I don't think there was an issue of anyone not being able to find information on PLD.  The issue was this:

You might not have had...but the only link in the topic was DWAN only accessible.  Petawawa gets nothing (and that is unlikely to change) so if you move from Ottawa with lots of choice up the Valley you lose the chump change.
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline molson949

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2007, 14:15:28 »
I was wondering if anyone heard about the post living allowance for Alberta ( Edmonton ) area. The price of homes and rent in the Edmonton and area is the fifth highest now in the Canada, WOW a two bedroom rents for 750 to 900 and a three bedroom for 900 to 1200/mtn, just about half months pay for a Cpl. And here is the good news for someone posted to Edmonton this summer the ave price of a single family home is now $413,000 bucks lets do some math 300k house @ 6.5 % rate = 2000/mtn not including taxes and insurance, lets go $350000 @ 6.5 % = 2344/mtn

WOW

350k in Edmonton maybe able to get you a three bedroom half duplex, A fewyears ago PLD was 11$ in Edmonton time to review that ASAP.

However on the up side there is alot of work for spouses,and other family members in all Fields and lets not forget the price of gas at the pumps we only pay 1.06 right now sweet times.( LOL )

What warming bells need to go off before this gets look at at all levels of the chain of command and the government to protect us for helping protect others??

Pay raises are good and the salary troops get pay today have improve but is there ore that we can do??

open to comments from all

CHEERS,
MOLSON949






Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2007, 18:58:38 »
Molson:  How much Alberta pays on provincial taxes again?

Max

Offline MJP

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2007, 19:09:47 »
While having a low provincial tax might be nice, it certainly doesn't offset the recently skyrocketing prices in real estate in Edmonton.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2007, 19:48:33 »
But it sure makes a difference in the End.  No provincial taxes on goods and low income tax plus low oil price makes a HUGE difference in the end...  If you buy a house 200 000$ more in Alberta than in Manitoba (example), amortized over 25 years that makes 8K$ a year more.  How much do you save in taxes/oil every year?  Much more in my opinion, if you manage your finance well

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2007, 19:52:02 »
I make less then 50k a year what bank would give me a 350k mortgage?....that is the point of the COL payments...it brings you up to or closer to par with those around you. It has nothing to do with tax's or fuel savings so your argument is irrelevant.
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline molson949

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2007, 20:32:36 »
Thanks for the comments trade in your high taxes and get posted to Edmonton save on cheaper gas ( LOL ) but where do you want to live 35 mins from base 60 mins from base ?? The choice is up to the person the cheaper the house the farer you are away from work remember you save on your gas ( LOL ) SO it is up tp you??

Do any one know what all the other bases are collecting for post living allowances??

Lets remember we all pick out trade however we do not allows pick our posting "MISSION BEFORE SELF" The Canadian forces whats to make sure the right personal is in the right place to complete the task or mission it needs to get done, DONT BE FOOL BY THAT.

Cheers,
Molson949






Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2007, 20:35:21 »
I make less then 50k a year what bank would give me a 350k mortgage?....that is the point of the COL payments...it brings you up to or closer to par with those around you. It has nothing to do with tax's or fuel savings so your argument is irrelevant.

PLD is not only about mortgages (anyways, not that I know of)  there is a BUNCH of factors taken into consideration (like taxes and prices of services)

Max

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2007, 20:41:12 »
PLD is a cost of living allowance which does indeed deal with the cost of owning a house or paying rent...and if the avg house is going for 350k or a 1-2 bedroom Apt going at $900(ish) what Pte/Cpl can afford that. Now factor in the the PMQ's at the Edmonton Garrison are full and your soldiers are being forced to live on the open market. Tax's and fuel cost argument holds less water then a sieve. Sorry Max your right out of er on this one.
"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2007, 20:49:05 »
Cost of a house sure is a factor but not the only one.  I think tax breaks in Alberta are sufficient enough to offset the housing market. 

From the CBIs:

Quote
"cost of living" means the sum of money required to provide for the following categories of household expenditures for a household of three persons, with a household income as may be determined from time to time by the Minister:

shelter,
food,
clothing,
furniture and other household items,
personal care,
medical and dental care,
domestic services, including childcare,
recreation,
transportation,
income tax,
sales tax, and
"marginal tax rate" means the second from the lowest personal federal tax rate combined with the applicable provincial or territorial tax rate without any surcharge or reduction. (taux marginal d'imposition)

I don't think the fact that you can or cannot get a mortgage or the situation of the PMQs has a huge factor in PLD.  PMQs are not the only rental option.

Max

Offline MJP

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2007, 21:03:09 »
Yes but rents in the entire area have matched the rise in the price of real estate.  Living in Alberta isn't as cozy as everyone thinks.  Yes Provincial taxes are lower and gas is a bit cheaper, but hell usually Winnipeg is roughly the same as Edmonton (or at least it did) for gas prices and I don't recall too many refineries there.  Food,sundries and all other services are the same as anywhere else.

The biggest reason I think they should review PLD is the bloody price of a Timmies DD.  I pay less out here on course here in Gagetown then I do in Edmonton.  That is a crying shame if you ask me. ;)
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Offline Casing

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2007, 21:15:46 »
Molson:  How much Alberta pays on provincial taxes again?

Max

You should make sure of your numbers before spouting off some stereotypical garbage like that.  For the 2006 tax year I paid more taxes as a resident of Alberta than I would have as a resident of Ontario.  And sure, there might not be a PST in Alberta, but it's just built into the price of the goods.  Things are not as cheap there as everyone likes to believe.

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2007, 21:33:32 »


Do any one know what all the other bases are collecting for post living allowances??


Comox = $0
Greenwood = $0

Offline BulletMagnet

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2007, 21:35:34 »
Here just to give you a valid idea Max

Edmonton
http://www.places4rent.com/finder.asp?LOCID=97

Petawawa/Pembroke
http://www.places4rent.com/finder.asp?LOCID=621


Now that is just rent...get it now?

"Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence" Cpl Jordan Anderson 1981-2007 RIP

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Offline MJP

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2007, 21:39:37 »
ACCORDINGLY, THE FOLLOWING ARE THE REVISED PLD RATES (READ IN FOUR COLUMNS: LOCATION/FULL PLD RATE/SEVENTY-FIVE PERCENT RATE/EFF DATE):

ALDERGROVE/190/143/1 JAN 06
BORDEN-BARRIE/86/65/1 JAN 06
BRANTFORD/113/85/1 JAN 06
CALGARY/21/16/1 JAN 06
CAMBRIDGE /84/63/1 JAN 06
CHATHAM/0/0/1 JAN 06
CHILLIWACK/0/0/1 JAN 06
CORNERBROOK/83/62/1 OCT 05
DUNDURN-SASKATOON/0/0/1 JAN 06
GANDER/0/0/1 JAN 06
GRAND FALLS-WINDSOR/133/99/1 OCT 05
GUELPH/245/183/1 JAN 06
HALIFAX/374/280/1 OCT 05
HAMILTON/347/260/1 OCT 05
KAMLOOPS-KELOWNA/68/51/1 JAN 06
KENORA/0/0/1 JAN 06
KINGSTON/16/12/1 JAN 06
KITCHENER//170/127/1 FEB 06
LONDON/46/34/1 JAN 06
MEAFORD-OWEN SOUND/0/0/1 JAN 06
MONTREAL - NORTH SHORE/495/371/1 OCT 05
MONTREAL - SOUTH SHORE/404/303/1 OCT 05
NANAIMO/6/4/1 JAN 06
NIAGARA-ST CATHARINE/174/130/1 JAN 06
NORTH BAY/6/4/1 JAN 06
OTTAWA-GATINEAU (NCR)/196/147/1 OCT 05
PETERBOROUGH/68/51/1 JAN 06
PRINCE ALBERT/0/0/1 JAN 06
QUEBEC CITY-VALCARTIER/189/141/1 OCT 05
ROUYN-NORANDA/0/0/1 JAN 06
SARNIA/0/0/1 JAN 06
SAULT STE MARIE/0/0/1 JAN 06
SEPT-ILES/112/84/1 JAN 06
SHERBROOKE/0/0/1 JAN 06
SHILO/0/0/1 JAN 06
ST JOHN S/308/231/1 OCT 05
ST-HYACINTHE/24/18/1 OCT 05
ST-JEAN-SUR-RICHELIEU/0/0/1 JAN 06
STRATFORD/206/155/1 JAN 06
SUDBURY/0/0/1 JAN 06
THUNDER BAY/0/0/1 JAN 06
TIMMINS/0/0/1 JAN 06
TORONTO - AREA 1/1586/1189/1 OCT 05
TORONTO - AREA 2/669/502/1 JAN 06
TORONTO - AREA 3/542/407/1 JAN 06
TORONTO - AREA 4/1005/754/1 OCT 05
TORONTO - AREA 5/1377/1032/1 OCT 05
TRAIL/0/0/1 JAN 06
VANCOUVER/517/387/1 JAN 06
VICTORIA-ESQUIMALT/464/348/NO CHANGE
WINDSOR/331/248/1 OCT 05
WINNIPEG/0/0/1 JAN 06

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Offline camochick

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Re: Post Living Differential (PLD)
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2007, 22:50:36 »
When the heck did gas become cheap in Alberta?  If you don't want to live in cracktown you're paying a decent chunk of change for rent here, and don't even think about getting a pmq, the list is so long you'll be waiting until retirement. Alberta is great for somethings, but don't be fooled, it's just as pricey as the rest of the country, taxes or not.
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