Author Topic: Rations, Meal Claims, No Access to Mess Hall, Etc.--Merged  (Read 95701 times)

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Offline the 48th regulator

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2010, 14:59:12 »
There is not a directive anywhere that states we must eat the provided food.

I beg to differ;

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/db-as/cft-ifc/index-eng.asp

Canadian Forces Temporary Duty Travel Instruction, 22 July 2007 (DOC Version, 459.50 KB)

Again, it is states;

Section - 6 - Travel Outside the Headquarters Area – No overnight stay
6.10   Meals

(1)   A member is entitled to be reimbursed the applicable meal allowance rates set out in Appendix C of the following Treasury Board website, http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_113/td-dv_e.asp, for each breakfast, lunch and dinner while on TD. A meal allowance shall not be paid to a member with respect to a meal that is provided by a third party or other government agency.  Members shall only claim for those meals that they were not provided.

(2)   A member is entitled to be reimbursed the applicable meal allowance for each breakfast, lunch and dinner provided that:

a)   for breakfast, the member must depart from home on duty travel before 0630 hrs;

b)   for lunch, the member must be on travel status between 1130 hrs and 1300 hrs; and

c)   for dinner, the member must arrive at home after 1800 hrs.

(3)   A member who is on duty between 1900 hours and 0730 hours for four hours or greater is entitled to be reimbursed, with receipts, actual and reasonable expenses not exceeding the amount payable for a lunch, for a single night meal, when the CO considers that the purchase of the meal was necessary to ensure the proper performance of the duty.

(4)   Reimbursement of meals for shift workers shall be based on the meal sequence of breakfast, lunch and dinner in relation to the commencement of the CF member’s shift.


Section 7 – Travel in Canada/Continental USA – Overnight stay

7.10   Meals

(1)   A member is entitled to reimbursement for the applicable meal allowance rates as set out in Appendix C of the following Treasury Board website, http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_113/td-dv_e.asp, for each breakfast, lunch and dinner while on TD. Members shall only claim for those meals that they were not provided.  A member is not entitled to reimbursement with respect to a meal that is provided by a third party or other government agency.

(2)   A member is entitled to reimbursement provided that:
a)   for breakfast, the member must depart from home on duty travel before 0630 hrs


b)   for lunch, the member must be on travel status between 1130 hrs and 1300 hrs; and

c)   for dinner, the member must arrive at home after 1800 hrs.

(3)   If it is determined that no meals were provided on a flight, a member is entitled to claim the per diem meal rate without receipts.  However, where a member considers that a meal was insufficient, receipts are required for the alternate meal consumed.  Substantiation must be provided to the approving authority before the meal expense is reimbursed.  Snacks, i.e., pretzels, peanuts and chips do not constitute a meal.

(4)   If a member declines a meal included in the travel or conference package and seeks reimbursement for an alternate meal, the member must provide written substantiation to the approving authority for refusal.

(5)   It is the member’s personal responsibility to provide advance notice to the airlines or other appropriate service providers, to ensure that their religious beliefs or dietary requirements can be accommodated.

(6)   For TD travel in the USA, the rate payable shall be in US funds.

(7)   In accordance with CFAOs 28-1 and 209-4 http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/028-01_e.asp and http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/209-04_e.asp, rations shall be utilized where available.  When a member is in US military quarters without cooking facilities and access to rations the member shall receive full per diem for the first thirty (30) days.  Thereafter a member is eligible for seventy-five per cent (75%) of meals and seventy-five per cent (75%) of incidentals.  Meals claimed while a member is provided free rations and quarters must be accompanied by a receipt as well as the rationale for not utilizing the rations.

(8)   If a member has no choice but to reside in commercial accommodations without cooking facilities for the duration of the duty travel, the member is entitled to the full per diem meal rates.  However, if the member selects to reside in private vice commercial accommodation, the member is entitled to the full per diem meal rates for the first thirty (30) days and seventy-five percent (75%) thereafter.

(9)   If a member occupies US military, corporate, government or school residences, apartment hotels or similar type accommodation with cooking facilities or non-commercial accommodation, the member is entitled to the full per diem meal rate for the initial thirty (30) days.  Thereafter, a member is entitled to be paid seventy five percent (75%) of the daily meal allowance for the remainder of the TD period.


 




Section 8 Overnight Stay outside of Canada

8.10   Meals

(1)   A member is entitled to the applicable foreign meal allowance rates for each breakfast, lunch and dinner while on TD as specified in the TB Daily Meal Rates at Locations Abroad, Appendix D, which is found at the following website, http://www.tbs-sct.gc.ca/pubs_pol/hrpubs/TBM_113/td-dv_e.asp.  The TB meal rate is based on the usage of full commercial meal facilities.  However, if no meal allowance has been established for a given country or where sudden changes in currency exchange rates or high inflationary trends may invalidate the specified meal allowance, a member is entitled to be reimbursed actual and reasonable expenses, based on receipts.

(2)   Members shall only claim for those meals that they were not provided.  A member is not entitled to reimbursement with respect to a meal that is provided by a third party or other government agency or where the meal was included in the price of the accommodation, i.e., breakfast.


I am not trying to be facetious or anal, however there are rules in place.  Getting reimbursement for meals that were not entitled has being going on since the First Roman Centurion came up with the idea.

dileas

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2010, 15:06:19 »
I just take all my receipts and let the OR staff figure it out....
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2010, 15:26:59 »

I am not trying to be facetious or anal, however there are rules in place.  Getting reimbursement for meals that were not entitled has being going on since the First Roman Centurion came up with the idea.

dileas

tess

You're correct Tess,

A member should not, IAW regulations, be claiming a meal that was provided by a caterer, included in the price of the hotel etc. If the meal was provided - the only way that they should then be claiming is with a receipt if they believed that the meal was "insufficient." In that case, the full meal rate for meal "X" is not reimbursable, but only the actual cost of the meal as indicated on the receipt.

When I go to conferences & stay in hotels, the lunch meal is usually provided by a caterer via buffet or otherwise. I am not entitled to claim for lunch, nor do I. I once did file a claim, as the lunch provided was on a Friday ... mostly consisting of fish & no one could assure me that the other items (non-fish) provided by the caterer were not fish-contaminated --- I am allergic to fish. I bought my lunch from the hotel restaurant and submitted with my claim upon my return from the conference; I was reimbursed the exact dollar value of that meal - no more, no less. No problem.
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2010, 16:26:29 »
Unless those public servants are governed under a different TB - the rental allowance for IR is the same in the CF.  Max allowable is $1090/month.

Really?  I get $1600/month for rent.  I'm pretty sure it varies by location.

My mistake, it wasn't PS but CBSA.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=91767.0
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Offline Ditch

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2010, 16:51:30 »
Really?  I get $1600/month for rent.  I'm pretty sure it varies by location.

Interesting - is that $1600 inclusive for rent and furnishings - or does it also include food?  We have quite a number of members out here at the school living on IR from Winnipeg.  They can submit receipts to a maximum of $1090/month to cover rent and furniture.  They get another $500-600 in other funds too.

Thanks for the reference Tess - conferences and all inclusive resorts aside, hotels that provide "breakfast" don't quite meet the requisites listed above.  If I could pay a lower night stay that was without breakfast included - then the reference would be valid.  Since this food is provided more as a marketing tool, the cost is not really covered by the accommodation cost.  That being said, if I eat the food in the hotel and it suffices - I do not claim breakfast.  If I decide that I would rather go to the Denny's across the street - that too is my prerogative.
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Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2010, 16:56:33 »
Interesting - is that $1600 inclusive for rent and furnishings - or does it also include food?  We have quite a number of members out here at the school living on IR from Winnipeg.  They can submit receipts to a maximum of $1090/month to cover rent and furniture.  They get another $500-600 in other funds too.

$1600 for a furnished apartment, including utilities.  $100 for parking.  Add another $500-600 for food/separation allowance.  As I said, I believe the rates are different for each area.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2010, 17:55:23 »
$1600 for a furnished apartment, including utilities.  $100 for parking.  Add another $500-600 for food/separation allowance.  As I said, I believe the rates are different for each area.

Correct - the maximum amount varies on location. I got a max of 1080/month in PEI for a furnished apartment. Mine only cost 1000, so I was only re-imbursed 1000. Wasn't reimbursed parking as it was provided free of charge. Add on to that 1000 whatever the going rate was then for high rate SA to pay for my food, cable etc
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2010, 14:55:03 »
Actually, if it doesn't show up on the hotel bill and it's not known that the hotel provides a breakfast, you can indeed claim that meal.  Is it ethical?  I'll leave that up to the individual.  Not to mention, some hotel "breakfasts" are a muffin and a coffee.   ::)

Forget ethic shall we talk legal??

If you are provided a meal and then claim it you are committing fraud and yes there are some of us that checks on these things when you send us a claim for approval.

If it is just a muffin and coffee then fine, buy some bacon and eggs and claim it, put a note that breakfast provided was not satisfactory as it was just a muffin.

To claim a meal you must have purchased something.  The odd thing is that we do not force you to accept muffin and coffee as breakfast but that is all you have to purchase in order to claim it.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2010, 14:59:25 »
Here's a "for instance".  When I came back from Afghanistan in December, we had an overnight in Köln, Germany.  I didn't think that breakfast was included (looking at the hotel info book in the room, it stated in was €23), so I didn't go to breakfast at the hotel but got something once we arrived at the airport.  Turns out breakfast was included.  Is it wrong of me to claim that meal??

not wrong if you justify it so the approving authority knows all the facts.  submit it and include the explanation you just gave here.  Then the worse that will happen is they say no and you are out the money.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2010, 15:21:10 »
Interesting - is that $1600 inclusive for rent and furnishings - or does it also include food?  We have quite a number of members out here at the school living on IR from Winnipeg.  They can submit receipts to a maximum of $1090/month to cover rent and furniture.  They get another $500-600 in other funds too.

Thanks for the reference Tess - conferences and all inclusive resorts aside, hotels that provide "breakfast" don't quite meet the requisites listed above.  If I could pay a lower night stay that was without breakfast included - then the reference would be valid.  Since this food is provided more as a marketing tool, the cost is not really covered by the accommodation cost.  That being said, if I eat the food in the hotel and it suffices - I do not claim breakfast.  If I decide that I would rather go to the Denny's across the street - that too is my prerogative.

marketing tool or not if the hotel provides a meal then you are not entitled to claim one.  You can explain why the meal was not satisfactory but that does not make it automatically approved.  I have seen some accepted and also seen some rejected.  That you would rather eat at Denny's is your prerogative but it is also the prerogative of the person approving the claim to say no to paying it.

There are many misconceptions out there on claims simply because they have been allowed by some that don't know better or simply don't care (including clerks and log o's).  I have had several senior officers and aids look shocked when I ask them for their memo justifying the hotel they stayed in.  Cols and above can stay where ever they want and don't have to justify it - WRONG.

Please check the regulations and use them.  I'd rather not see the case of the Chief and Col that claimed $5 for taxis they didn't take.  At least the guys I caught for taxi fraud only got slaps on the wrist.
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Offline captloadie

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #60 on: February 02, 2010, 03:55:09 »

To claim a meal you must have purchased something.  The odd thing is that we do not force you to accept muffin and coffee as breakfast but that is all you have to purchase in order to claim it.

This is so true. Timmies and a muffin is fine most of the time, accept when the hotel is providing it for free.

I can remember when you actually sat down with a clerk to finalize a claim and when they asked if you stopped for a meal on the road they would nod their head to encourage you to say yes. Because if you said no, they couldn't reimburse you for it. As stated previously, too many members take the meal entitlement as a god given right to be handed money, not for what it is supposed to be: reimbursement for meals actually consumed.

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2010, 07:21:32 »
To claim a meal you must have purchased something.
Well, I did purchase a meal.  As I said, I explained it to the clerk doing the claim and it was accepted.  I guess I should have asked the hotel at check-in but it never occurred to me as any hotel I have been in that provided breakfast as part of the cost have told me that breakfast was included and the times it was served.  I guess Germany's different.  Also, when looking at the hotel info card, it stated that breakfast cost €23, so I assumed (yeah, yeah, I know) that it wasn't included.

Are we all happy now??   ;)
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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2010, 17:49:47 »
Good Day,
I am currently working in Belgium on shifts(12hrs) and during the Christmas holidays I was tasked with 2 x 24 hrs shifts.  I've since put in a memo for supper and late night meals allowance but has been refused because I don't have receipts.  I work in a secure area alone and requires me to stay in my office and cannot leave the area for more than 10 mins.  There is no box lunches provided or mess and deliveries cannot be made on SHAPE.  I've been on the internet looking at policies and cannot seems to find anything that would support my request.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2010, 18:42:37 »
This may help.
I know it has been discussed before on the site.


http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=69716.msg661542;topicseen#msg661542
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2010, 21:34:27 »
Good Day,
I am currently working in Belgium on shifts(12hrs) and during the Christmas holidays I was tasked with 2 x 24 hrs shifts.  I've since put in a memo for supper and late night meals allowance but has been refused because I don't have receipts.  I work in a secure area alone and requires me to stay in my office and cannot leave the area for more than 10 mins.  There is no box lunches provided or mess and deliveries cannot be made on SHAPE.  I've been on the internet looking at policies and cannot seems to find anything that would support my request.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

Over the Christmas holdiays 2008, I did a series of Duty Os; as the mess was closed during the periods of my duties, we had to order out our meals; we were clearly briefed that we must keep our receipts in order to claim the meal - I'm actually quite sure they had us all sign a word doc sheet stating as much as part of our mass briefings prior to the holidays. I kept all mine and was reimbursed my "actual costs" for those purchased meals (not the daily meal rate) IAW regulations.

On one of my DutyOs, the gentlemen who was the B Duty Sgt managed to lose his receipt for his supper purchase. It was 18 bucks (and change) because I was there when he ordered, paid and consumed it. He wrote up a short little memo stating that he had lost his receipt and I wrote one advising that he had indeed purchased the meal during our duty. He included them with his other recipts. He was reimbursed the 18 bucks, but not the change (because we couldn't remember exactly how much the 'change' was) for his meal.

The directives are pretty clear - you must retain your receipts and will be reimbursed only for actual expenses (else we'd have shiftworkers all over the country bringing in their baggie lunches & microwave dinners from home, but charging the taxpayers for meals never purchased during their shifts).

Was there anything in your briefing about having to provide for your own meals during the holidays? Anything that stated that meals could not be provided by the employer while on duty? This was all clearly laid out to us in our duty brief. Anyone to back up that fact that you actually did incur the expense (ie a witness)?

If not, if you have access to online banking ... perhaps some print screens which show your debit being used for "restaurant X at Y time on Z date in the amount of $$"? Proof that the purchases were actually made?

Other than that, I don't know what to tell you.
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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2010, 22:34:27 »
Buy your food before going to work, keep your receipts. I do it all the time.

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #66 on: February 03, 2010, 00:27:32 »
Thank you for your input.  I was not explain nothing as I work on the international side.  I was expected to dragged all 4 meals with me for a 24 hrs period since I can't leave to go get a meal.  There are not many restaurants with take away options close by and at that time of the year, they are pretty much all closed.  I was just thinking of when I would be on duty for 24 hrs in Canada, we would have a meal provided by the mess and a box lunch for late night meal, I guess it's a whole different ball of wax when in Europe.

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #67 on: February 03, 2010, 01:19:00 »
There are not many restaurants with take away options close by and at that time of the year, they are pretty much all closed. 

They have grocery stores in Europe. I know, i go there a bit. Like i said in my last post, i do this meal on duty thing a fair bit.

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #68 on: February 03, 2010, 07:02:18 »
It's too bad the CF does not go with what most top industry does, a fixed rate for meals and incidentals for every day on commercial TD. You input the time you left and the time you got back, where you went, and it's all automatic. The money saved on bureaucracy and administration is far outweighs the risk of someone getting a freebee or skipping a meal. Of course we are a public funded org so we must spend extra to be inefficient but transparent. Briefing (rant) complete.
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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2010, 09:23:29 »
That's funny our Sqn works off the Treasury board rates, the only exception is late night meals which require receipts. Also if we land after meal ours at home with no on-route stops we have to provide a receipt which we are reimbursed for actual cost. Any other time on TD we get the full perdium with out receipts.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #70 on: February 03, 2010, 09:31:11 »
It's too bad the CF does not go with what most top industry does, a fixed rate for meals and incidentals for every day on commercial TD. You input the time you left and the time you got back, where you went, and it's all automatic. The money saved on bureaucracy and administration is far outweighs the risk of someone getting a freebee or skipping a meal. Of course we are a public funded org so we must spend extra to be inefficient but transparent. Briefing (rant) complete.

You may wish to investigate the facts.

DND/CF do pay flat rate reimbursements for meals and incidentals while on travel status.   For those on travel status, an automated system calculates entitlements and interfaces to provide DFT of approved reimbursements.

The situation discussed here is for individuals not on travel status; that is, at their usual duty location, who for work reasons are unable to eat their normal meal.  In those cases, reimbursement is for actual expenditures (with receipt) up to the limits designated by Treasury Board.


Thus, air crew on a daytrip to another city are reimbursed at TB rates for meals while away from home; if back home but working late they must submit receipts.

It's pretty simple.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2010, 09:35:11 by dapaterson »
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Re: Meal Claims
« Reply #71 on: February 03, 2010, 09:39:08 »
That's funny our Sqn works off the Treasury board rates, the only exception is late night meals which require receipts. Also if we land after meal ours at home with no on-route stops we have to provide a receipt which we are reimbursed for actual cost. Any other time on TD we get the full perdium with out receipts.

It is tghe same for my Sqn, but the situation described by the original poster is something different. I understand the situation he's in and dealing with it is not complicated.

Offline Klinkaroo

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Rations and No Access to Mess Hall
« Reply #72 on: May 09, 2010, 20:38:52 »
Disclaimer : Spent an hour reading rations threads and could not find the answer to my question.

So here is the deal, just transferred to the Reg force last week and now have to pay for my Rations and Quarters. I live in Quarters here on base in Esquimalt and work up at 443 Sqn (a 30-40min drive). I cannot get a move as I am not trained in my new trade. The only military mess hall is here in Esquimalt, as you can see I cannot go to the Mess for Lunch and most Breakfast as I often have to be up at the Squadron by 0630 some mornings. When I talked with the rations clerk she told me that she would just not put me on rations since I wouldn't be able to eat what I paid for and just paying cash when I do go to the mess. I have been tracking my expenses (cost of paying for meals cash and cost of groceries for brown bag lunches) and it is not looking like it is in my best interest.

Question is, if they did link me to rations, if my place of duty is at a certain distance from the mess hall could I be entitled to a Box Lunch, picked up in the morning possibly? They deliver box lunches to the squadron for the Aircrew, maybe they could send mine up with the same order?

Offline ammocat

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Re: Rations and No Access to Mess Hall
« Reply #73 on: May 09, 2010, 21:11:41 »
Not sure how things work in Esquimalt, but address your situation through your CoC. They should be able to make arrangements for you to pick up a box lunch for breakfast prior to departing for work. I have been in similar situations and have never had a problem, although I have never used this as a long tern solution.

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Re: Rations and No Access to Mess Hall
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2010, 15:41:11 »
The simple answer is yes, since you are on ration strength and cannot reasonably get to the mess for lunch, you are entitled to a box lunch.  Picking it up yourself at Nelles before heading out to Pat Bay or having it form part of the order for the aircrew are both viable options.  I would check with whoever orders them for the aircrew first and see where it goes from there.  When they place the order they should be able to say X# for aircrew and X# for personnel on ration strength.
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.