• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

All things Charlottesville (merged)

People were horrified in the 70s and 80s by the violence perpetrated by football hooligans in the U.K. The thing is, they were organized, and there were rules of engagement before they ever clashed. The head Milwall (spit!) thug would call up the head ICF thug (COYI!) and set a time, place, and weapons limits, ie sticks okay, no knives, steel toed Docs permitted, shot gloves acceptable, okay good, see you Saturday.  These "spontaneous" (yeah right) protests are all weapons hot, and the authorities need to stomp on them hard.
 
Lumber said:
As a centrist, I'm honestly torn on so many different levels about this situation.

I hold Nazism and White Supremacy to be abhorrent, so I support the creation of counter-organizations (in principle) like Antifa and BLM.

However, I believe in peaceful assembly, lobbying, and protest, so I denounce the violence and hateful rhetoric that these organizations have been espousing.

I hold freedom of assembly and freedom speech to be paramount in our society (among other rights), so I support the "alt-rights" right to organize, assemble, protests, and speak out, and I hate neo-social-marxists and their "shouting-down" of right-wing-conservative speakers (i.e. Ann Coulter).

However, I believe Nazism specifically represents a very specific and very deliberate call to violent action against "untermensch", so I support a much more forceful (not necessarily violent, though) attempts by antifa/BLM to subvert, denounce, and destroy neo-nazi and similar organizations.

This is a really good article which admonishes both organizations:

What Trump Gets Wrong About Antifa
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/what-trump-gets-wrong-about-antifa/537048/



However:



As a centrist, I share with you this plea: Shut-Up; all of you, please.

the-political-spectrum-racists-libtards-nazis-pussies-right-left-reality-22025958.png
74 percent of politically motivated deaths compared to 2 percent.

Seems people can just gloss over that.

But in truth, any and all attempts to paint them as equal threats need to stop right there. One group is far more dangerous than the other.
 
I think that's part of the problem, the police need to go in hard and break heads on both sides, arrest and charge them. Then make them work together on a chain gang.
 
Times change. Do people change?

Virginia, 2017.
‘Jews will not replace us’
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22jews+will+not+replace+us%22&rls=com.microsoft%3Aen-CA%3AIE-Address&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&biw=1280&bih=603&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A8%2F11%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A8%2F16%2F2017&tbm=

Toronto, 1933.
"While groups of Jewish and Gentile youths wielded fists and clubs in a series of violent scraps for possession of a white flag bearing a swastika symbol at Willowvale Park last night, a crowd of more than 10,000 citizens, excited by cries of ‘Heil Hitler’ became suddenly a disorderly mob and surged wildly about the park and surrounding streets, trying to gain a view of the actual combatants, which soon developed in violence and intensity of racial feeling into one of the worst free-for-alls ever seen in the city.
Scores were injured, many requiring medical and hospital attention... Heads were opened, eyes blackened and bodies thumped and battered as literally dozens of persons, young or old, many of them non-combatant spectators, were injured more or less seriously by a variety of ugly weapons in the hands of wild-eyed and irresponsible young hoodlums, both Jewish and Gentile".
http://jewishcurrents.org/torontos-christie-pits-riot/

That wasn't Berlin. It was 4 km from where I live.





 
Altair:  if you can share a source for this ...
Altair said:
74 percent of politically motivated deaths compared to 2 percent ...
... then this isn't entirely true:
recceguy said:
... Both break the law to the same extent ...
Colin P said:
... the police need to go in hard and break heads on both sides, arrest and charge them. Then make them work together on a chain gang.
:nod:
 
I don't have any time or sympathy for the extreme assholes on either end of the spectrum.  What I do see, however is the left extreme is out more often, causing damage more often and seem to be more aggressive, more often.  The right now is starting to raise itself from the shadows they were lurking in and are becoming more visible.  What has precipitated this unsheathing of the right will no doubt be the subject of much debate.

I know Strike was quoted with the thoughts that the extreme right are the worst in that they want to subjugate the rights of those who are opposite them.  I would counter that it has appeared to me these past years that the extreme left has been very focused at subduing anything or anyone that they disagree with too.  Both, to me seem as intolerant as the other which to me makes both of them undesirable and a pack of assholes.  I share that cartoon's wishes that they'd both shut the fuck up ( plus crawl back under their respective rocks).
 
Indeed, Thuc. 

That politics is a facile issue that can be conveniently laid down in a simple, linear manner is naïve at best. 

There are instigators operating throughout political/social/cultural/fiscal space in and across many sectors of the polisocultfispaceTM.  And to argue that one is 'worse' than another...who's to make that determination?  Bad behaviour is bad behaviour.  If people ask me who am I to judge bad behavior?  Well, I choose to 'judge personally' by forming my own opinion of individual or group actions through constructs like Criminal Codes, the same tools that the judiciary by societal mandate judges those who contravene such Codes.  Those codes include sections for actions such as assault, destruction of property, utterance of threats etc.  Individual contravention of such elements of societal codes is, I think we would all agree, not limited to just one group within the polisocultfispaceTM (or to those who like to stay on the 2-D political spectrum, one end or the other).

Another point is the 'dealing with the worst' issue.  Everyone's mileage may vary, but I believe you deal with all, and let the variation in severity be dealt with through moderation of sanction.  Two kids behaving badly, but one worse?  Me: you're both grounded, you (kid 1) 2 weeks, you (kid 2) 1 week.  Otherwise, they get good at manipulating and playing the line.
:2c:

Regards
G2G
 
George Wallace said:
Series of videos shot at Charlottesville.  First video (1 hr 28 min) one shows the Protest marchers attacked by BLM members using Bear Spray/Pepper Spray. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aGuKz2bc58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wHCk0iDeBg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZF9TvgsKyc
https://www.facebook.com/TheRealRedElephants/videos/458166431221827/?hc_location=ufi

Many more videos on those links to let you form your own decisions as to how violent the two opposing views can be.
Watch all the videos you like, one person was killed in the riot by a car allegedly driven by this guy* ...
3310.jpg

... who wasn't on the counter-protest/ANTIFA side.

* -- And to head things off at the pass, social media's helping spread a story talking about a pro-Clinton-ite REALLY driving the car, instead of this guy.  Uh, not the case - not to mention the guy pictured above is in the Deep State Charlottesville court records as charged.  Also, the false flag accusations are already well in circulation ...
 
Humphrey Bogart said:
... I'll finish with two pictures:

Boston-Gay-Pride-2016.jpg


burka-365743.jpg


The first is a picture from the pride parade in Boston, the second is a picture of Muslim women clad in Burkha's. 

My opinion, both represent an extreme form of decadence; however, they exist on opposite ends of the spectrum.  The first is an extreme example of a sensate culture, the second is an extreme form of the ideation culture.  Different but at the same time similar as both represent cultural decadence in my mind. 

There will need to be a convergence of values between our respective cultures sometime as extremes cannot coexist with each other.
...

HB. I'll start off with the assumption that you are not considering lesbianism per se as an example of decadence but are focusing on the horse and buggy element as being representative of the cultural decadence.

I don't see the horse and buggy thing as an example of extremism. What I see it as is playfulness that becomes available to two women who live in a free society. The burqa example, on the other hand, is clearly symbolic of of a society that does not value freedom for one half of it's membership.

I'm not sure what you mean by a need for "convergence" but I take it that you mean some give and take by both sides so that they can coexist in the middle. Sorry but if that's what you mean them I do not agree (although I am usually a great fan of reasonable compromise). We should never give up any of our freedoms (especially those of our minorities) to appease extremists. If they don't accept some flamboyantly underdressed characters gamboling about one day of the year, then that is their problem and not ours.

:cheers:
 
Couldn't find a source either, but this was an interesting article that popped up on my feed today...

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/trump-asks-%e2%80%98what-about-the-alt-left%e2%80%99-here%e2%80%99s-an-answer/ar-AAqazaG?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

Trump Asks, ‘What About the Alt-Left?’ Here’s an Answer.

President Trump defended his belated condemnation of white supremacists who engaged in violence in Charlottesville, Va., by arguing that he was exercising caution in casting blame. Then he returned to his original position that there was ample fault on both sides.

Asked about Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who characterized calls for the firing of Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the president’s national security adviser, as “the same purveyors of hatred and ignorance who precipitated the recent violence in Charlottesville,” Mr. Trump suggested that blame should be shared.

Sign Up For the Morning Briefing Newsletter

“What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at, as you say, the ‘alt-right’?” he asked. “Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging — that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”


Antifa, or anti-fascist activists, certainly used clubs and dyed liquids against the white supremacists, according to the New York Times reporters Sheryl Gay Stolberg and Hawes Spencer, who covered the violence in Charlottesville. Other counterprotesters included nonviolent clergy members.

But there is one stark difference between the violence on the two sides: The police said that James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio drove his car into a crowd and killed at least one person, Heather Heyer. Mr. Fields was charged with second-degree murder.

Comparing Antifa to Mr. Fields’s act is like “comparing a propeller plane to a C-130 transport,” said Brian Levin, the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

“Using the fact that some counterprotesters were, in fact, violent, creates a structural and moral false equivalency that is seriously undermining the legitimacy of this president,” Professor Levin said.

Antifa and black block — the far left of today — engaging in street brawls and property damage, while reprehensible, is “not domestic terrorism,” said J. J. MacNab, a fellow in the Program on Extremism at George Washington University. Similar episodes of extreme violence certainly exist on the left: the recent congressional baseball shooting in Virginia, or the bombing of the North Carolina Republican Party headquarters.

But overall, far-right extremist plots have been far more deadly than far-left plots (and Islamist plots eclipsed both) in the past 25 years, according to a breakdown of two terrorism databases by Alex Nowrasteh, an analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute.

White nationalists; militia movements; anti-Muslim attackers; I.R.S. building and abortion clinic bombers; and other right-wing groups were responsible for 12 times as many fatalities and 36 times as many injuries as communists; socialists; animal rights and environmental activists; anti-white- and Black Lives Matter-inspired attackers; and other left-wing groups.

Of the nearly 1,500 individuals in a University of Maryland study of radicalization from 1948 to 2013, 43 percent espoused far-right ideologies, compared to 21 percent for the far left. Far-right individuals were more likely to commit violence against people, while those on the far left were more likely to commit property damage.

“We find that the right groups and the jihadi groups are more violent on the left,” said Gary LaFree, one the researchers and the director of the University of Maryland’s National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism. The data set is in the process of being updated, so it does not reflect current state of extremism, Professor LaFree cautioned, but “in general, we’ve been seeing this fairly robust trend in right-wing cases.”

All of the experts contacted by The Times stressed that extremism ebbs and flows, based on the presence of a charismatic leader, incremental changes in society, seismic events like an election or war, among other factors.

The far left was far more active and violent in the 1970s, while the far right and, specifically, militia movements resurged in the 1980s. A decade later, environmental terrorists became active. And jihadist attacks dominated after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

“The extreme left has not been nearly as organized” in recent decades, said Brent Smith, the director of Terrorism Research Center at the University of Arkansas. “Leaders of the extreme left died off and they’re floundering without leadership.”

While antigovernment activists, for example, have been fomenting and building their anger since 2008, Antifa is a more nascent movement, reflected in their scale. The far right has a scattered membership of a few hundred thousand, estimated Ms. MacNab, compared with a few thousand Antifa activists.

“They’re less structured, they’re less organized, they’re active on social media but not to the extent of others. They don’t have the entree into and oxygen of support from the mainstream left,” Professor Levin said.

Though Antifa and black block “are on my radar,” he still considers violent Salafist jihadists and white nationalists, neo-Nazis, “sovereign citizens” and radical anti-abortion extremists — the consortium of far-right agitators — more concerning.
 
Here it is guys.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf


Since September 12, 2001, the number of fatalities caused by domestic violent extremists has ranged from 1 to 49 in a given year. As shown in figure 2, fatalities resulting from attacks by far right wing violet extremists have exceeded those caused by radical Islamist violent extremists in 10 of the 15 years, and were the same in 3 of the years since September 12, 2001. Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent).

 
milnews.ca said:
Altair:  if you can share a source for this ...... then this isn't entirely true: :nod:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/what-trump-gets-wrong-about-antifa/537048/

Halifax Tar said:
Sources ?
I quoted lumber and he quoted it from this article.
 
Strike said:
Couldn't find a source either, but this was an interesting article that popped up on my feed today...

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/trump-asks-%e2%80%98what-about-the-alt-left%e2%80%99-here%e2%80%99s-an-answer/ar-AAqazaG?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

Trump Asks, ‘What About the Alt-Left?’ Here’s an Answer.

President Trump defended his belated condemnation of white supremacists who engaged in violence in Charlottesville, Va., by arguing that he was exercising caution in casting blame. Then he returned to his original position that there was ample fault on both sides.

Asked about Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, who characterized calls for the firing of Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, the president’s national security adviser, as “the same purveyors of hatred and ignorance who precipitated the recent violence in Charlottesville,” Mr. Trump suggested that blame should be shared.

Sign Up For the Morning Briefing Newsletter

“What about the ‘alt-left’ that came charging at, as you say, the ‘alt-right’?” he asked. “Let me ask you this: What about the fact they came charging — that they came charging with clubs in their hands, swinging clubs? Do they have any problem? I think they do.”


Antifa, or anti-fascist activists, certainly used clubs and dyed liquids against the white supremacists, according to the New York Times reporters Sheryl Gay Stolberg and Hawes Spencer, who covered the violence in Charlottesville. Other counterprotesters included nonviolent clergy members.

But there is one stark difference between the violence on the two sides: The police said that James Alex Fields Jr. of Ohio drove his car into a crowd and killed at least one person, Heather Heyer. Mr. Fields was charged with second-degree murder.

Comparing Antifa to Mr. Fields’s act is like “comparing a propeller plane to a C-130 transport,” said Brian Levin, the director of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino.

“Using the fact that some counterprotesters were, in fact, violent, creates a structural and moral false equivalency that is seriously undermining the legitimacy of this president,” Professor Levin said.

Antifa and black block — the far left of today — engaging in street brawls and property damage, while reprehensible, is “not domestic terrorism,” said J. J. MacNab, a fellow in the Program on Extremism at George Washington University. Similar episodes of extreme violence certainly exist on the left: the recent congressional baseball shooting in Virginia, or the bombing of the North Carolina Republican Party headquarters.

But overall, far-right extremist plots have been far more deadly than far-left plots (and Islamist plots eclipsed both) in the past 25 years, according to a breakdown of two terrorism databases by Alex Nowrasteh, an analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute.

White nationalists; militia movements; anti-Muslim attackers; I.R.S. building and abortion clinic bombers; and other right-wing groups were responsible for 12 times as many fatalities and 36 times as many injuries as communists; socialists; animal rights and environmental activists; anti-white- and Black Lives Matter-inspired attackers; and other left-wing groups.

Of the nearly 1,500 individuals in a University of Maryland study of radicalization from 1948 to 2013, 43 percent espoused far-right ideologies, compared to 21 percent for the far left. Far-right individuals were more likely to commit violence against people, while those on the far left were more likely to commit property damage.

“We find that the right groups and the jihadi groups are more violent on the left,” said Gary LaFree, one the researchers and the director of the University of Maryland’s National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism. The data set is in the process of being updated, so it does not reflect current state of extremism, Professor LaFree cautioned, but “in general, we’ve been seeing this fairly robust trend in right-wing cases.”

All of the experts contacted by The Times stressed that extremism ebbs and flows, based on the presence of a charismatic leader, incremental changes in society, seismic events like an election or war, among other factors.

The far left was far more active and violent in the 1970s, while the far right and, specifically, militia movements resurged in the 1980s. A decade later, environmental terrorists became active. And jihadist attacks dominated after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

“The extreme left has not been nearly as organized” in recent decades, said Brent Smith, the director of Terrorism Research Center at the University of Arkansas. “Leaders of the extreme left died off and they’re floundering without leadership.”

While antigovernment activists, for example, have been fomenting and building their anger since 2008, Antifa is a more nascent movement, reflected in their scale. The far right has a scattered membership of a few hundred thousand, estimated Ms. MacNab, compared with a few thousand Antifa activists.

“They’re less structured, they’re less organized, they’re active on social media but not to the extent of others. They don’t have the entree into and oxygen of support from the mainstream left,” Professor Levin said.

Though Antifa and black block “are on my radar,” he still considers violent Salafist jihadists and white nationalists, neo-Nazis, “sovereign citizens” and radical anti-abortion extremists — the consortium of far-right agitators — more concerning.

Strike, the numbers will depend on who you include into "far right" the KKK is around 5,000, white supremacists might add maybe 10,000 more of true hardcore. likely extremist anti-abortionists that will take direct action probably numbers in the hundreds.   
 
Military,

U.S. military leaders condemn racism following Trump's comments on Charlottesville violence
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-u-s-military-leaders-condemn-racism-1502898652-htmlstory.html
America's top-ranking military officers spoke out forcefully against racial bigotry and extremism, a rare public foray into domestic politics that revealed growing unease at the Pentagon with some of President Trump's policies and views.


Business,

Trump’s business advisory councils disband as chief executives repudiate president over Charlottesville views
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2017/08/16/after-wave-of-ceo-departures-trump-ends-business-and-manufacturing-councils/?utm_term=.cd3a9957f692
President Trump’s relationship with the American business community suffered a major setback on Wednesday as the president was forced to shut down his major business advisory councils after corporate leaders repudiated his comments on the violence in Charlottesville this weekend.
 
TheHead said:
I'm familiar with that source -- it has interesting numbers, but generally compares right-wing attacks to jihadi/Islamist attacks, not to ANTIFA attacks.  In fact, one of the footnotes indicates that the database providing the stats shows "There were no attacks since 1990 by persons associated with extreme leftist ideologies that resulted in fatalities to non-perpetrators."  Hmmm ...
Altair said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/what-trump-gets-wrong-about-antifa/537048/
I quoted lumber and he quoted it from this article.
My bad for not clicking sooner - thanks, Altair/Lumber - here's the stat ...
... According to the Anti-Defamation League, right-wing extremists committed 74 percent of the 372 politically motivated murders recorded in the United States between 2007 and 2016. Left-wing extremists committed less than 2 percent ...
... and I've attached the study itself as a ref for anyone interested.  I haven't been able to find the exact stat, but I've attached a pie chart from page two breaking down who did what, and a table showing how many cops different types of groups killed between 1965 and 2016 to compare/contrast.

So, GAO says gov't stats show no left-wing-caused fatals since 1990, while the Anti-Defamation League shows a few more cops killed by right-wing than left-wing groups since 1965.  Ain't stats great?

Another possible indicator of the respective threat:  here's what the New Jersey Department of HOmeland Security has to say as of reports issued in June:
... Violent confrontations between Antifa members and white supremacists—as well as militia groups—will likely continue because of ideological differences and Antifa’s ability to organize on social media. In the past year, Antifa groups have become active across the United States, employing a variety of methods to disrupt demonstrations ... (source)
... While traditional white supremacist organizations have focused on “rebranding,” new white supremacist groups have emerged, promoting a purist European identity and recruiting younger, educated members. Many of these groups originated on social media platforms, such as 4chan, 8chan, Twitter, and Reddit, but they have expanded activities, to include distributing recruitment posters on campuses and inciting violence at protests and rallies across the United States ... NJOHSP assesses white supremacist extremists remain a moderate threat to New Jersey. Since January, white supremacist extremists conducted four attacks, one plot, and three stockpiling incidents across the United States ... (source)
Examples of incidents from both sides highlighted in both source reports.

Hope this fuzzifies the mudification  ;D
 

Attachments

  • MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf
    MurderAndExtremismInUS2016.pdf
    416.5 KB · Views: 84
  • AntiDefLeagueGraphs.jpg
    AntiDefLeagueGraphs.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 231
  • AntiDefCopKillingStats.jpg
    AntiDefCopKillingStats.jpg
    41.3 KB · Views: 161
And if you're interested in the whole terrorism/hate crime aspect of the death in Charlottesville, this NY Times article shows ain't that simple ...
... Is this considered a hate crime?

Not necessarily. Just because a crime was motivated by hate does not mean it is covered by the federal hate crimes law. Only particular types of hatred count. The hate crimes statute gives federal prosecutors the opportunity to bring a case if a defendant attacked a victim because of certain characteristics, such as the victim’s race, religion, national origin, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation.

The hate crimes law traces to the Civil Rights Act of 1968 and has been expanded since. When Congress expanded it to include sexual orientation and gender identity in 2009, Mr. Sessions opposed the move, arguing that state criminal laws against assault and murder were sufficient. But as attorney general he has vowed to enforce it.

Still, it may be difficult to prove that Mr. Fields was motivated by one of the characteristics protected by the hate crimes statute, like race; hatred of people because of their political views is not specifically mentioned in the law. Although several of the surviving victims are black, Ms. Heyer was white.

What about the Ku Klux Klan Act?

Tracing to a law enacted in 1871, the so-called Ku Klux Klan Act criminalizes certain types of politically motivated violence that today would be called terrorism. Some of its provisions require evidence of conspiracy, so they would apply only if investigators turn up evidence that the attacker plotted with others, rather than spontaneously decided to commit violence. One notable provision, however, can cover a defendant who acted alone.

A provision added as part of the Civil Rights Act of 1968, Section 245 of Title 18, makes it a federal crime to use force to willfully injure or intimidate any citizen because the victim was “participating lawfully in speech or peaceful assembly” opposing the denial of certain civil rights to other people, like a right to vote or receive service from a business that accommodates the public. If bodily injury results from the crime, each count can carry a 10-year prison sentence. If a victim is killed, prosecutors may seek life imprisonment or the death penalty.

Federal prosecutors might try to use this law, but it is not clear whether it would apply to people protesting a white nationalist rally. Justin Levitt, a law professor at Loyola Law School, Los Angeles, who was a deputy in the Justice Department’s civil rights division during the Obama administration, said there was scant guiding precedent about whether the statute covered something like the attack in Charlottesville.

“You don’t often see someone ramming a car into a peaceful protest,” he said. “The sorts of things you see in Charlottesville, you don’t see often.”

Was this domestic terrorism?

Lisa Monaco, the former head of the Justice Department’s national security division and a former counterterrorism and Homeland Security adviser to President Barack Obama, raised the question of whether the federal government should be handling the investigation as a domestic terrorist attack.

“I think the biggest question is whether the F.B.I. is going to investigate this as a domestic terrorism case, given the presence of groups that have been the subject of such investigations before or would meet their criteria, like the K.K.K., and the nature of the attack,” she said. “A guy plowed his car into a crowd of protesters — that kind of violence, committed for seeming political ends, is the very definition of domestic terrorism.”

Under federal law that was expanded by the U.S.A. Patriot Act after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a violation of federal or state criminal law qualifies as “domestic terrorism” if it appears to be intended to coerce or intimidate a civilian population or to coerce the policy of the government.

Domestic terrorism is not, itself, a criminal offense that prosecutors could charge. But portraying the attack in Charlottesville that way could help enable federal jurisdiction for what would normally be the state crime of vehicular manslaughter. It could also trigger certain enhanced powers to obtain records or seize assets that are available in security investigations. Since Virginia has the death penalty, however, federalizing the prosecution might not trigger any greater set of penalties for a conviction.

On ABC News’s “Good Morning America” on Monday, Mr. Sessions said they would be looking at it in part as a domestic terrorist attack.

“It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute,” Mr. Sessions said. “We are pursuing it in the Department of Justice in every way that we can make a case. You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation towards the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally unacceptable and evil attack.”
 
TheHead said:
Here it is guys.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/690/683984.pdf


Since September 12, 2001, the number of fatalities caused by domestic violent extremists has ranged from 1 to 49 in a given year. As shown in figure 2, fatalities resulting from attacks by far right wing violet extremists have exceeded those caused by radical Islamist violent extremists in 10 of the 15 years, and were the same in 3 of the years since September 12, 2001. Of the 85 violent extremist incidents that resulted in death since September 12, 2001, far right wing violent extremist groups were responsible for 62 (73 percent) while radical Islamist violent extremists were responsible for 23 (27 percent).

Thanks for the reference, TheHead.

I'm intrigued by your selection of the report you quoted above.

Two comments/perspectives:

Perspective #1 - Far right is worse(r): Anti alt-right'ers (Alt-left'ers?) could point out that the radical Islamists didn't have 23 incidents, but rather only 16 (grouping Muhammad and Malvo's sniper-esque shootings as an event [of about 3 weeks duration], the Tsarnaev brothers Boston Marathon-related activity as an event) thus, at 62 to 16, far right wing violence represented 80% (62/78), vice the GAO's 'cherry-picked' 73% and Islamists responsible for only 20% (16/78) of extreme events.  Yes, Islamists are BAD, but the far right is WORSE.

Perspective #2 - Islamists are worse: Alt-right'ers (anti Alt-Left'ers) could ask why does number of incidents matter, should not (any ;) ) lives matter?  Let's look at number of people killed in the incidents.  Page 32, Far Right killed 106 people.  Page 34, Islamists killed 119 people.  Thus, Islamists killed 12% ((119-106)/106) more people than the Far Right.  Yes, the Far Right is BAD, but Islamists are WORSE.

So who's worse?  Should we only deal with those who are worse?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics indeed...

:2c:

Regards
G2G
 
My sister just posted this on facebook. Freedom of speech and association and all, YMMV, but I like the overall premise.

20799338_1972686499408985_994498478773338041_n.jpg
 
Back
Top