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Defining Foreign and Defence Policy (and hence our Military Force)

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concerning Government, (1698)

The ultimate problem is about trying to have a focused conversation about when we, as a nation, are willing to kill people. 

We have the riches to buy the world's biggest robot army (we don't have the people for the world's biggest army).  We can easily afford a 5% of GDP defense policy.  But unless we can say when we are willing to kill people then there is no basis for discussion.

As Rick Hillier said, the job is to kill people.  Under what circumstances will Canadians permit others to be killed?

In the absence of that understanding there is no justification for any of the Combat Arms.

 
Kirkhill said:
Corollary:

We cannot decide what we want our military to do until we know what we can do with the resources available.

Chicken! Meet Egg.  :)
Yes and no.

I'm guessing there's more back-and-forth involved, but in theory, you have to know where you want to go before you 1)  figure out if the vehicle you have will get you there and, if not, and 2)  decide how to change it to get you there.

Kirkhill said:
The ultimate problem is about trying to have a focused conversation about when we, as a nation, are willing to kill people. 
Bang on - as critical as ERC's point, but one that voters may be squeamish about discussing (or even considering).
 
I don't think we are going to get any clear direction. Too many people have competing ideas of what Canada is, and what it should be. To get all the players to agree on a defence strategy would be next to impossible. Expense claims, six figure salaries, and substantial pensions will be earned, but nothing coherent or consistent will materialize.

As a whole, the nation is unwilling to take the defence of Canada seriously, but we are also too proud to admit it openly. Politicians will pay attention to defence when voters demand it. Voters will only demand it after we have been caught with our pants down, so to speak.

EDIT: And I'd much rather see well thought out Foreign/Defence policies than mindless military spending. I am very much of the mind that we could do FAR more with LESS if we set realistic goals for what we need and are willing to spend.
 
Spectrum said:
I don't think we are going to get any clear direction. Too many people have competing ideas of what Canada is, and what it should be. To get all the players to agree on a defence strategy would be next to impossible. Expense claims, six figure salaries, and substantial pensions will be earned, but nothing coherent or consistent will materialize.

As a whole, the nation is unwilling to take the defence of Canada seriously, but we are also too proud to admit it openly. Politicians will pay attention to defence when voters demand it. Voters will only demand it after we have been caught with our pants down, so to speak.

EDIT: And I'd much rather see well thought out Foreign/Defence policies than mindless military spending. I am very much of the mind that we could do FAR more with LESS if we set realistic goals for what we need and are willing to spend.

I agree completely. Unfortunately the people that can should make the noise serve in a uniform that keeps us from publicly criticizing our government. And as Harper already keeps a tight muzzle on his party. I could only imagine what would happen to a higher up who criticized the conservatives. Or worse it could draw attention to our/Canada's problem and we might not like the outcome as a new defence strategy might be made to appease and gain votes rather than make us effective at properly defending Canada. And perhaps the people in power don't want to put a strong willed individual who stands up for our soldiers. As that is a real thing and if you read about W.Churchill you will see he specifically set up his office to have strong opposition against him so that he would have people looking critically at his ideas. As he learned from some mistakes of his past.

However I remember reading back in the day an article about how members of the Australian army were embarrassed to serve in their uniform as they felt they weren't pulling their weight overseas due to politics. And it seemed to work out for them. And quite frankly I am not  entirely proud to serve in a Canadian uniform. Don't get me wrong I am a proud Canadian and I am happy to be a soldier. And I think highly of our men and women in uniform as we can do what our government asks of us. But I feel they don't really care about us as a military as much as a political tool. And thus they will never "ask" (give real direction) to us in uniform. So how can I as a Canadian soldier strive for a defined goal, rather than be a fish out of water? And wouldn't making some noise about this behind closed doors be the right thing to do to properly serve our COUNTRY. Rather than our government who views us as a way into office. (I know the voters put them there, but ethically speaking I find it to be a grey area)
 
Kirkhill said:
The ultimate problem is about trying to have a focused conversation about when we, as a nation, are willing to kill people. 

We have the riches to buy the world's biggest robot army (we don't have the people for the world's biggest army).  We can easily afford a 5% of GDP defense policy.  But unless we can say when we are willing to kill people then there is no basis for discussion.

As Rick Hillier said, the job is to kill people.  Under what circumstances will Canadians permit others to be killed?

In the absence of that understanding there is no justification for any of the Combat Arms.

People will be squeamish about discussing when it is appropriate to kill other people for many good reasons (including our collective cultural background: "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is one of the Ten Commandments, after all). Even I, who supposedly is able to do this for a living, will admit to being a bit squeamish about the idea, although recognizing that at some point people will cross the line and need killing after all.

Perhaps reframing the discussion to "What is worth fighting for?" might be a better starting point. You could argue this is just semantics (yes, it is), but it also frames the argument in a positive ("what is worth") rather than a negative ("when we are willing to kill people"). It also ties more cloesly to Edward's overall theme on what our "Grand Strategy" should be (Peace and Prosperity), so may be a much better means of focusing on what we want to achieve, which then logically leads to how we hope to achieve this, and what resources we are willing to apply to the effort.
 
Squeamishness is the problem in the debate.

If we can't look the question square how can we have a rational debate?

We dance around the question with euphemisms and alternatives:

Peace-making
Peace-keeping
Domestic Ops
Humanitarian Assistance
Sovereignty Patrols

None of those require a gun - much less killing.

None of those require an army.

Worth fighting for?  Nobody dies.  Well played old man. Congratulations on your win.  See down at the club
Worth dying for?  Brave lad.  Died well in a noble cause.  Unfortunately we lost. Not his fault.
Worth killing for?  ......  Crickets.

I propose we start at the bottom:

Would we kill to protect ourselves? 

I know many brave, and honest, individuals that would say no to that.

Would we kill to protect our families? 

That becomes harder and easier.  More people that I have talked to would be willing to kill someone who threatened their loved ones than if they themselves were threatened.

After that things become increasingly murky.

Family? Extended Family? In-Laws? Locals? Provincials? Nationals? Corporate entities? Foreigners? Foreign family? Foreign family killing Canadians in Canada?

Under what circumstances do you react and when do you act?  Do you always let the other guy get the first shot in?

A dear friend of mine drank himself into an early grave wondering if he was the hero he believed his father to be.  The seminal point of his concern was not if he had the courage to fight, or to die but rather to kill and, for him, more problematically, to order others to kill.
 
I've always thought that our biggest problem as a military is not really money, or resources (we usually get those in spades when the Govt of the day decides we need them), but rather that this country has so few strategic imperatives that would allow a very focused defence policy as a "must do".

To take extreme examples to illustrate my point, let's take Israel and South Korea. Their strategic imperatives are very clear: failure to have an effective military would not only be politically unacceptable to any Govt, it might also be suicidal.

Where is this imperative for Canada? The defence of the nation? IMHO, it's impossible to imagine any plausible threat to Canadian security that would not be a threat to North American security and thus to the US. The US will never, could never, allow the security of North America to fail (911 aside...). All Canadians and their govts know this. "Canada First" has, in my opinion, really been more of a useful political slogan than a coherent strategic concept with the associated ends, ways and means.

Expeditionary combat operations? Even less of an imperative. History shows quite clearly that, less a global war, we can pick and choose whether or not we participate, with what degree of force, and for how long. Don't forget that if McKenzie King had been able to have his way, Canada's role in WWII might have been limited to the RCAF. Some nations might get PO'd at us for not playing, but that usually blows over.

Peace support operations? Again, totally discretionary, although they have some moral and emotional suasion power. But, if we have a Govt like the CPC who couldn't really care less about the UN and its antics, then even that suasion counts for little.

So, what's left? Civil defense? No need for a military for that: just form something like the TNHW national civil emergency service that Germany has, and you're set. Public order or internal security? Beef up the RCMP so it's really a "gendarmerie" in more than name only.

What you're left with, IMHO, is using military policy as a political tool to please various regions and voting constituencies, economic partners and allies. And how you actually go about doing that is case-by-case, Govt-by-Govt, which can lead to an apparently disjointed "flavour of the month"-driven defence policy.

In the end, there seems to be very little requirement to have any particular type or configuration of CAF: it's just about having "something in the window" to meet political needs. Cynical? Yes, probably, but I'm trying to think like a politician, which in the end are those who make these decisions.
 
Like many organizations facing the double trouble of an aging boomer population and equipment 'rust out'/ under investment due to the ongoing and dire financial situation, our biggest issue is basic sustainability.

Peacekeeping? Really? Better ask Baby Boomer Joe of he has his teeth in:
 
Kirkhill said:
Worth fighting for?  Nobody dies.  Well played old man. Congratulations on your win.  See down at the club
Worth dying for?  Brave lad.  Died well in a noble cause.  Unfortunately we lost. Not his fault.
Worth killing for?  ......  Crickets.
Want yet another level of complexity?  What's worth having your/someone else's son/daughter fight/kill/die for?

pbi said:
I've always thought that our biggest problem as a military is not really money, or resources (we usually get those in spades when the Govt of the day decides we need them), but rather that this country has so few strategic imperatives that would allow a very focused defence policy as a "must do".
:nod:
 
milnews.ca said:
Want yet another level of complexity?  What's worth having your/someone else's son/daughter fight/kill/die for?
:nod:

Yes, we do regret our son's death, but he believed in what he was doing and he chose to do it.
 
pbi said:
I've always thought that our biggest problem as a military is not really money, or resources (we usually get those in spades when the Govt of the day decides we need them), but rather that this country has so few strategic imperatives that would allow a very focused defence policy as a "must do".

To take extreme examples to illustrate my point, let's take Israel and South Korea. Their strategic imperatives are very clear: failure to have an effective military would not only be politically unacceptable to any Govt, it might also be suicidal.

Where is this imperative for Canada? The defence of the nation? IMHO, it's impossible to imagine any plausible threat to Canadian security that would not be a threat to North American security and thus to the US. The US will never, could never, allow the security of North America to fail (911 aside...). All Canadians and their govts know this. "Canada First" has, in my opinion, really been more of a useful political slogan than a coherent strategic concept with the associated ends, ways and means.

Expeditionary combat operations? Even less of an imperative. History shows quite clearly that, less a global war, we can pick and choose whether or not we participate, with what degree of force, and for how long. Don't forget that if McKenzie King had been able to have his way, Canada's role in WWII might have been limited to the RCAF. Some nations might get PO'd at us for not playing, but that usually blows over.

Peace support operations? Again, totally discretionary, although they have some moral and emotional suasion power. But, if we have a Govt like the CPC who couldn't really care less about the UN and its antics, then even that suasion counts for little.

So, what's left? Civil defense? No need for a military for that: just form something like the TNHW national civil emergency service that Germany has, and you're set. Public order or internal security? Beef up the RCMP so it's really a "gendarmerie" in more than name only.

What you're left with, IMHO, is using military policy as a political tool to please various regions and voting constituencies, economic partners and allies. And how you actually go about doing that is case-by-case, Govt-by-Govt, which can lead to an apparently disjointed "flavour of the month"-driven defence policy.

In the end, there seems to be very little requirement to have any particular type or configuration of CAF: it's just about having "something in the window" to meet political needs. Cynical? Yes, probably, but I'm trying to think like a politician, which in the end are those who make these decisions.

While I generally agree with what you've said, I wouldn't discount the "political needs" you describe in the last paragraph.  As a trading nation we are very dependant on our involvement in international agreements, general peace among our major trading partners, and the free flow of goods across the globe. 

While it may not be necessary to do much military "heavy lifting" to directly enforce our national interests, it IS necessary to at the very least show we are pulling our weight with our allies in order to win a seat at the table when decisions are being made that WILL have significant impacts on our economy.

Many of our key partners in our own prosperity DO have real security concerns for their national interests both at home and overseas for which they will expect our support in order to "keep in their good books".  If those partners begin to see us as a nation that just reaps the benefits of their own efforts with no sacrifice of our own then we WILL pay a price for that.  The price may not be obvious, but don't doubt that there will be a price paid.

As far as "National Defence" goes, I agree that we don't have to fear enemy armoured divisions rolling across the prairies or paratroops floating in the skies over Ottawa, but there ARE threats to North America (and the US in particular).  911 showed how asymmetrical attacks can have huge economic impacts.  Missiles from rogue states in desperate situations can fly across our territory.  Disruption of our energy flows to the US can be a threat to the US, etc. 

If the US ever thinks that our own weakness and inability to protect their northern flank from these kinds of threats is putting them at significant risk then we will have big problems.  The US as a "partner" isn't always an easy thing to live with...but the US as a distrustful neighbour will put up the kinds of fences that will seriously hurt our national interests (i.e. our pocketbooks).  Our very sovereignty would also face pressures as the US takes matters into its own hands in order to secure its perimeter.  The US is the ONLY country we need to worry about having the capability to invade us.  Much better to make sure they have no national interest in doing so rather than having to try and defend against the possibility.

The CF may indeed be much more of a political tool than the militaries of most other countries throughout history and we may not really "need" much military strength in order to defend ourselves in the traditional sense, however it IS still an important tool.  The problem is that none of our political leaders are willing to explain that to the public so that we can have the military we need to fulfill those political needs.
 
Some thoughts on where defence policy needs to go.  I like the idea of something that won't flop around substantially with each government change, but that might be a lot to ask for in Canada.

Changing the politics around Canadian defence policy
There is a clear desire to step back from the hyper-partisanship of the recent past and find more collegial approaches.
Charles Davies
Embassy News
Published: Friday, 01/08/2016 12:00 am EST
Last Updated: Friday, 01/08/2016 9:44 am EST

And so it goes. Yet another election where half-considered political commitments to change course in Canada’s defence policy, made in the heat of battle, stare a new government in the face.

This time it is the Liberal promise to exit the F-35 program. In 2006, it was the Conservative plan to create new units all over the country, regardless of whether they were needed or could be afforded. In 1993, it was the disastrous cancellation of the New Shipborne Helicopter project. In 1984 it was the Mulroney Conservatives’ wildly ambitious and unaffordable defence expansion that included a nuclear submarine fleet.

Sometimes, as with the submarine idea, the government is eventually forced into an embarrassing about-face. In other cases, the more troublesome commitments are stalled and eventually quietly buried. Occasionally, however, the new government sticks to its guns and implements the promise, like the Chrétien Liberals in 1993. Which model the Trudeau Liberals will follow remains to be seen, but no matter what there will be a cost to the nation.

Defence policy is not about what missions a government assigns to its military—that is a matter of foreign or national security policy. Defence policy is about what defence capabilities Canada will acquire, maintain or divest, and how they will be resourced. Modern defence capabilities take years or even decades to build, so the military options available to the new Liberal government to respond to domestic and global events were decided by past governments, and future governments will have their options defined by this one.

Consequently, governments don’t own defence policy the way they do foreign policy. Rather, they are stewards of it, and Canadian governments of all stripes have not been very good at stewardship, to the nation’s cost.

Sometimes the costs are publicly acknowledged, such as the $500 million spent to cancel the New Shipborne Helicopter contract. Normally, however, they remain hidden. The enormous diversion of resources within the government, and even allied nations, to develop implementation plans for the Mulroney Conservatives’ defence ambitions was never catalogued or admitted.

Either way, these national flip-flops represented a real waste of resources that further eroded the level of military capabilities the country could afford, and the nation’s capacity to defend its interests and contribute substantively to international security challenges.

It doesn’t need to be this way. Other countries, including Australia, the United States and most of our European allies, do a much better job ensuring that a change in administration does not mean a costly redirection in defence policy. They do this by reducing political partisanship and recognizing that defence resources need to be efficiently applied, over the long term, to the task of turning bucks into bang.

Mechanisms such as legally-mandated cyclical policy reviews every four or five years, done within a non-partisan (or at least multi-partisan) political framework, establish a political dynamic that provides greater consistency than we see in Canada. This is not to say that politics is completely removed from the process, but they have found ways to do it smarter.

The new 42nd Parliament has an opportunity to begin changing the political dynamics around Canadian defence policy. There is a clear desire to step back from the hyper-partisanship of the recent past and find more collegial approaches to conducting the nation’s business. Defence would be a very fruitful place for Parliamentarians to start.

A more inclusive political approach would at least provide all parties with better insight into the operational, technical, financial, political and other aspects of defence capability investments being considered. This should help them more carefully think through their future election commitments, or even better, warn them away from the politically risky defence policy area completely. After all, elections in Canada are rarely won or lost on defence issues.

The best outcome for Canadians would be a stronger, more stable national political consensus around defence policy: the military capabilities the nation requires to defend its sovereignty and contribute to global peace and security, and the resources it needs to allocate to acquiring and sustaining them. This may be a bridge too far in the short term, but is something we need Parliament to reach for.
   
http://www.embassynews.ca/2016/01/13/changing-the-politics-around-canadian-defence-policy/48061
 
This looks promising if it follows through....

http://www.embassynews.ca/news/2016/01/13/defence-minister-military-review-to-be-completed-by-end-of-2016/48092

 
Remius said:
This looks promising if it follows through....

http://www.embassynews.ca/news/2016/01/13/defence-minister-military-review-to-be-completed-by-end-of-2016/48092
Defence minister: Military review to be completed by end of 2016

Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says he plans to complete a thorough defence policy review by the end of 2016—and the public will be asked to participate.
Great, the informed wisdom of the CBC Comment section. :stars:


And as the economy improves, we can look at adjusting things as well,” he added.
I'm guessing he didn't read this post on investment banks' concerns that "the new, Liberal government will press ahead too many unnecessary, unproductive stimulus projects and too few of the kind that might, actually, help."  Oh well.
 
I think I'd rather have input from Tickle Me Elmo than the average citizen on anything military related.  :2c:

I have never heard the term 'foreign allies' before.  Must be a new buzzterm in Upper Canada.

 
Well there was also teh statement that some areas cannot promote growth.  Hopefully this means cutting those reserve unit that struggle to recruit and maintain adequate numbers and beef up those that can.
 
Legion Magazine has produced an article questioning whether it is time for a new White Paper on Defence, or to implement LGen Leslie's Report on Transformation 2011.  They question what direction the Trudeau Government intends to go.

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Time for a new defence White Paper
January 14, 2016 by David J. Bercuson

The defence platform of the newly elected Liberal government was not extensive and in part vague, as other parties’ election promises were. But there were two promises the Liberals made that require a closer look.

The first of these was the promise that the Report on Transformation 2011, written by a team headed by Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie in 2010, would be implemented. The second was a pledge to strengthen Canada’s navy in a number of specific ways with new ships and specific missions. The transformation report was prepared and written just after Leslie had stepped down from command of the army and before he retired from the Canadian Armed Forces. He is now a Liberal MP, elected on Oct. 19.

It is a very thorough document in which Leslie and his team examined military headquarters of all the services, particularly at National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa, and in great detail showed how the military side of the defence bureaucracy had ballooned in the previous 10 years, while at the same time the cutting edge of Canada’s three services had basically remained the same size. (Leslie was prohibited from examining the civilian side of the Department of National Defence.)

One of the main recommendations of this complex document was that the ranks of contractors and other experts hired by the military—almost all of them in Ottawa—had become inexplicably large and ought to be cut back drastically. A second was that the Canadian Armed Forces, and especially the army, cut the ranks of Class B reservists wherever possible and increase the ranks of Class A reservists by about 6,000, and that the savings from cutbacks essentially be shifted to the then drastically under-enrolled navy. (It still is, though not as badly.) Leslie also recommended that the major changes in the command structure introduced under Chief of Defence Staff Rick Hillier be significantly modified and simplified.

Some of Leslie’s recommendations have been implemented in the nearly five years since the report was issued. There are far fewer Class B reservists today than there were then. (Class B reservists are reservists employed on a full-time basis. Class A reservists are true part-time soldiers parading at their armouries possibly two times a week and training for several weeks during the summer). The army tends to see Class A reservists’ major role being to augment the Regular Force, but with from six months to a year of additional training before deployment. They constituted 10 to 20 per cent of the soldiers Canada sent to Afghanistan.

Canada has too much “tail” for too few “teeth.”

These recommendations were controversial when first released in 2011 and much of the report is still controversial today, although there is a hard kernel of truth in the observation that Canada has too much “tail” for too few “teeth.”

The problem with the Liberal government’s commitment to follow through on the full transformation report is that it has also pledged to conduct a review of Canadian defence policy. It will be the first since the Canada First Defence Strategy of 2008, which was more of a procurement strategy than a strategic policy and is now almost completely obsolete. So, Canada most certainly does need a new defence White Paper, but even if such an undertaking was a high government priority for Trudeau’s team, a decent policy review could take at least a year to produce and months more to actually implement. The same problem exists for the naval expansion.

What will no doubt happen, therefore, is that the Tory shipbuilding strategy will move forward, the complete replenishment of the remainder of the Halifax fleet will be completed and the implementation of the transformation report will be caught up in the new defence review process.

In the meantime, the Trudeau team will look about desperately for a United Nations peacekeeping mission suitable for deploying Canadian troops. It will find precious few that the CDS and service chiefs will not resist, due to inherent danger to Canadian troops, lack of effective UN command, and lack of the sophisticated support elements that only the United States can supply (as we learned in Afghanistan).

Election promises are always easy to make, much harder to keep.


More on LINK.


- See more at: https://legionmagazine.com/en/2016/01/time-for-a-new-defence-white-paper/#sthash.W52Sm8R9.VwxwV9xQ.dpuf
 
Oooo, a White Paper, that'll fix everything, just like the last one(s).
 
Kat Stevens said:
Oooo, a White Paper, that'll fix everything, just like the last one(s).

:goodpost:

You got it, Kat. Without a clear commitment to doing something for some good, pressing reason, White Papers (and green ones and the "grey literature" that precede them, too) do nothing except make the authors feel good ~ see e.g. Jennifer Welsh, the author of Paul Martin's White Paper, "A Role of Pride and influence in the World."

The government, and in fairness to them they need to have some "national will" behind them, needs to have a problem that needs addressing. For this Liberal government the only defence problem is the same as the one the Conservatives had: "How do we get some new "toys for the boys" (that's how I think Betts and Telford see it) without both breaking the bank and getting a boat load of bad press because defence procurement in all screwed up?" This government doesn't have a strategic vision and there is no existential threat to Canada's security so any White Paper is most likely going to be an exercise in bureaucratic/academic mutual masturbation.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
This government doesn't have a strategic vision and there is no existential threat to Canada's security so any White Paper is most likely going to be an exercise in bureaucratic/academic mutual masturbation.
Bang on!
 
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