CFB Cold Lake Thread- Merged

[Halifax Tar]

"it happened to me therefore it should happened to you"

Its a cop out for laziness and an unwillingness to try to change/improve a situation.

When I hear it from retired members I just roll my eyes and equate it to grandpa walking up hill both ways to school...  No sense in arguing with them because the feel so strong in their convictions they actually cant listen to other options or ideas without being offended and that just gets messy.

 

[Strike]

... I remember the pool being full of kids swimming in the summer afternoons and non stop basketball in the mornings. Alot more support back then. They say the support system is still there, but i oddly enough remember it being alot stronger back then.

Part of THAT change is due to the change of the world as a whole, with the influx of technology and video games and the 24 hr news cycle, making parents worry there is a pervert around every corner and not letting there kids out to play "until the street lights come on" (which, in the summer in Cold Lake, can be pretty late  ;D ) so you can't even use the above as any type of reasoning for a remote posting being a burden.

As for the support system being weak, it can only be as strong as people are willing to make it.  Someone has to get out there and do the work, organize the groups, come up with events - volunteer.  Maybe everyone just got so concerned about their own lives that they just stopped being social?

So, again, as much as people might want to use the lack of sp systems and 'military family activities' as reasons why remote postings aren't the greatest, they've only become that way because society has changed and no one wants to take charge.

 

[goingcrazy]

As someone currently stuck in Cold Lake it's very discouraging reading this thread. I want to know when it became so normal and accepted for families, especially military families, to have to rely on a duel income household to meet basic needs. I believe there is a problem when my husbands pay, here in Cold Lake,  is literally not enough to pay for our Q, food, insurance and utility bills. When did this become okay? I'm not talking about extras like a second vehicle or extracurricular activities for the kids I'm talking about basic needs, not wants. Why, with the countless reports that have come out and high release rate, are we all seen as whiny with poor money skills? Is it really so hard to believe that there is a problem here?

 

[Halifax Tar]

As someone currently stuck in Cold Lake it's very discouraging reading this thread. I want to know when it became so normal and accepted for families, especially military families, to have to rely on a duel income household to meet basic needs. I believe there is a problem when my husbands pay, here in Cold Lake,  is literally not enough to pay for our Q, food, insurance and utility bills. When did this become okay? I'm not talking about extras like a second vehicle or extracurricular activities for the kids I'm talking about basic needs, not wants. Why, with the countless reports that have come out and high release rate, are we all seen as whiny with poor money skills? Is it really so hard to believe that there is a problem here?

Because goincrazy some people are so institutionalized by the CAF the don't believe it can do any wrong and every one of its current policies is correct and change of any sort of is to be feared and resisted.  Its sad but its true.

 

[observor 69]

Back in the 80's trying to get service in English at Place du Royaume in Chicoutimi. Not gonna  happen so it's my butchered French and a clerk with enough patience to try to understand me. Just saying.  :nod:

 

[TCM621]

Really.  Moral Authority.

It is a job that you chose to do.

Live with it.

And I have been for 18 years. That doesn't mean it's right. The problem is that the only guys who will make a career are guys like me who, for all its faults, still consider this my dream job. Or you will get the guys who have no where to go.

Or they will drive the very people who are the most dedicated into financial ruin.

 

[Jungle]

When I hear it from retired members I just roll my eyes and equate it to grandpa walking up hill both ways to school...

Which retired members ? I'm still serving; I went through this situation, and my family survived. Actually, it prepared us for tougher times.
I've been posted a dozen times, and I'm about to get posted again. Some places I enjoyed, some I didn't... it's part of the deal.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Again, I can't help but note the clear difference in opinion between retired and current members.  It should be noted that (as already mentioned) military provided services have been massively cut or completely removed.  Schools, Canex, PMQs: all of these have changed dramatically.

Please. I've been retired since July. Things haven't changed that much. :

 

[kratz]

I retired three weeks ago. So now my 20+ years experience is invalid?  :

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its a cop out for laziness and an unwillingness to try to change/improve a situation.

Perhaps this part of my post was missed, you could/can apply this to serving some members at your leisure.  Feel free to tack it on to yourself if you see fit.

 

[blacktriangle]

How about we just fix the PLD problem? or ensure that we have an adequate number of Q's in every location, and then standardize the prices across the nation?

and why not bring in some unit level financial management lessons? There are definitely troops that could benefit from them...and the ones I'm thinking of aren't posted to Cold Lake.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How about we just fix the PLD problem? or ensure that we have an adequate number of Q's in every location, and then standardize the prices across the nation?

and why not bring in some unit level financial management lessons? There are definitely troops that could benefit from them...and the ones I'm thinking of aren't posted to Cold Lake.

All great ideas!  PLD desperately needs to be looked at.

 

[upandatom]

As someone currently stuck in Cold Lake it's very discouraging reading this thread. I want to know when it became so normal and accepted for families, especially military families, to have to rely on a duel income household to meet basic needs. I believe there is a problem when my husbands pay, here in Cold Lake,  is literally not enough to pay for our Q, food, insurance and utility bills. When did this become okay? I'm not talking about extras like a second vehicle or extracurricular activities for the kids I'm talking about basic needs, not wants. Why, with the countless reports that have come out and high release rate, are we all seen as whiny with poor money skills? Is it really so hard to believe that there is a problem here?

It is hard for all the people on IR in Ottawa, and all the staff officers that make a bank, don't see it as much of a difference. For those young privates, and new cpls, making from 40-50k, spending 12-15k a year on housing alone, not including the utilities, heat, etc. adds up, include kids, car payment, insurance, taxes.

Unit level financial lessons are available through sisip, as biased as they can be, they do know what the requirements are. I'd say what I want to say on this matter, but it would probably get banned.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I retired three weeks ago. So now my 20+ years experience is invalid?  :

Was that to me? Because if it is, I'm agreeing with you. We're making the same point I think.

 

[Old Sweat]

Maybe it would take a flashback to the Calgary garrison in 1979. The junior commissioned and noncommissioned personnel were really suffering while Alberta boomed. The Brigade Commander, Brigadier, General Pat Mitchell, and the Base Commander, Colonel Dean Wellsman, advised those that qualified to apply for welfare. The media got ahold of it, and NDHQ et al looked very bsd. The CDS at the time said something like Canadian Forces policy will not be dictated by Army officers in Calgary. At this point Senator Stan Waters, ex FSSF and 1 Can Para among other things, got tp PM Joe Clark, who declared that these officers were acting properly in standing up for their troops.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe it would take a flashback to the Calgary garrison in 1979. The junior commissioned and noncommissioned personnel were really suffering while Alberta boomed. The brigade commoner, Brigadier, General Pat Mitchell, and the Base Commander, Colonel Dean Wellsman, advised those that qualified to apply for welfare. The media got ahold of it, and NDHQ et al looked very bsd. The CDS at the time said something like Canadian Forces policy will not be dictated by Army officers in Calgary. At this point Senator Stan Waters, ex FSSF and 1 Can Para among other things, got tp PM Joe Clark, who declared that these officers were acting properly in standing up for their troops.

As much as love this anecdote, we have no senior officers with that kind of balls anymore.  It would be political suicide.

 

[goingcrazy]

As much as love this anecdote, we have no senior officers with that kind of balls anymore.  It would be political suicide.

We need them.
Call me naive or whatever but when my husband joined I thought the military would be much different, more of a family. Instead its more of "well, I went thru a hard time a one point so suck it up buttercup"
I was raised that you speak up for the people that don't have a voice. We're not air force I know we will probably leave, hopefully, sooner rather then later but there are people here that have been here 10-15 years with no hope of getting out. The system is flawed not just here in Cold Lake but across Canada. Its sickening that people are being forced to go into debt for a posting. We need people to speak up.

 

[PMedMoe]

I want to know when it became so normal and accepted for families, especially military families, to have to rely on a duel income household to meet basic needs.

I don't know about you, but both of my parents always worked.  And my Dad was in the military.

I believe there is a problem when my husbands pay, here in Cold Lake,  is literally not enough to pay for our Q, food, insurance and utility bills.

It's not just Cold Lake and not even just the CF.  There are families all over (both CF and civilian) who cannot afford the necessities on a single salary.

 

[upandatom]

Maybe it would take a flashback to the Calgary garrison in 1979. The junior commissioned and noncommissioned personnel were really suffering while Alberta boomed. The Brigade Commander, Brigadier, General Pat Mitchell, and the Base Commander, Colonel Dean Wellsman, advised those that qualified to apply for welfare. The media got ahold of it, and NDHQ et al looked very bsd. The CDS at the time said something like Canadian Forces policy will not be dictated by Army officers in Calgary. At this point Senator Stan Waters, ex FSSF and 1 Can Para among other things, got tp PM Joe Clark, who declared that these officers were acting properly in standing up for their troops.

I would like to meet an officer nowadays that would do that for his troops. Im not saying there are not good officers out there, but the fact that these ones here, a group stood together and took the exact same stance, that is the difference.

To have a political backing did help a tonne-

Do you think this kids MP got in contact with him after this? :

Its kind of a sad state, for the last decade we have really been kicking ass, Troops were happier. I was all against the cutbacks we recieved. All part of a political Agenda. Sure we should of recieved some cutbacks due to pulling out. The way we were hit though, it affects all aspects of CF life. If it keeps coming like this, fairly certain we will need a Loan Card for pens.

PLD wont be looked at (should be, but I doubt it will), because it would cost money, We have already lost several CISM sports and we had that before Afghanistan.

 

[Journeyman]

Its kind of a sad state, for the last decade we have really been kicking ass, Troops were happier. I was all against the cutbacks we recieved. All part of a political Agenda. Sure we should of recieved some cutbacks due to pulling out. The way we were hit though, it affects all aspects of CF life. If it keeps coming like this, fairly certain we will need a Loan Card for pens.

PLD wont be looked at (should be, but I doubt it will), because it would cost money, We have already lost several CISM sports and we had that before Afghanistan.

I barely know where to start......  :  ....but I'll limit myself to two points:

1.  "...a political Agenda"...especially with the upper-case 'Agenda,' sounds so conspiratorial.  :Tin-Foil-Hat:  anic:

Yes, the agenda is a post-war scaling back of military spending.  It happens in pretty much every country after every war -- including the post-Cold War 'decade of darkness.'  Democratic governments are responsible to the people -- people who generally don't want higher taxes and can't be convinced to buy "War Bonds" to pay for combat equipment when they perceive no justifiable threat, and see greater utility in paying down debt or adjusting spending towards social benefits and infrastructure.  I'm not weighing in here on where Defence monies should be spent, just that cuts are inevitable.

2.  And as for my old hobby-horse of "opinions versus informed opinions," where people in various threads here are pointing out the difficulties of sustaining essential family requirements and maintaining critical combat capabilities -- hell, getting boots and mukluks -- you're going to whine about losing a CISM sport?! 

Big-picture thinking at its finest.    :facepalm:




There's always as silver-lining -- always.  Reducing CISM sports frees up more time for people to read, understand, and hopefully inform their thinking.  :nod: