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Electoral Reform (Senate, Commons, & Gov Gen)

What do you want to see?


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Good! You understood Bagehot.

Constitutionally (again the unwritten part, the part that really matters) the Queen IS all the things I said but, practically, she is what Bagehot and you have described. And it has to be that way or else we, Australians, Brits and Canadians, would have to write down the important parts of our various constitutions, including the one we all share, and that would be disastrous.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
Good! You understood Bagehot.

Thank You, Yoda.  ;D

Edit:  Less facetious, and more concise - Is this a fair summation of the Role of Her Majesty? She denies supreme authority to all merely by being a place-holder (a Lieutenant?)
 
E.R. Campbell said:
The current GG's seven year term expires in 2012.

I don't think there is a term other than at the pleasure of Her Majesty.  It is understood to be five years with a 2 year bonus for not ticking off the PM.  Jean has 11 months to go.

While the PM could ask the Queen to replace the GG at any time, it would probably just provide fodder to the opposition to guarantee an election loss.  I doubt that the GG imagining herself as Queen is sufficient grounds to get the boot.
 
E.R. Campbell said:
One of the things that both Adrienne Clarkson and Michaëlle Jean have shown us is that we are better served when the GG is a good communicator. Another is the GG should be a people person – someone who is comfortable in his/her own “skin” and makes other comfortable. The GG must be bilingual, of course. The GG should have a record of service to Canada. (S)he should be someone to whom we can all look up, someone we would like our children to emulate.

So, how about:

RickHillierinFatigues.jpg


He’d be economical, too; he’s got his own uniform.

Lest we forget.  The "misunderstandings" with Gordon O'Connor have probably not been forgotten nor foregiven so he isn't getting appointed by any Conservative.  Also he is too competent to be ever appointed by any Liberal government.
 
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Grit+determination+many+faces+Lynda+Haverstock/2078692/story.html

- Lynda Haverstock gets my vote.
 
Happy Birthday - Joan Cook, Liberal Senator

http://www.liberal.ca/en/team/senators/1804_joan-cook
Educated in the school systems of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, she was born in English Harbour West, Newfoundland on October 6, 1934. Senator Cook is a widow, and the mother of two children: Diane and Jean.

So she turns 75 and retires from the Senate. The GG will appoint a Conservative replacement at the request of the PM, bringing the Tories to 47 + 6 Independants = 53. At 52, the Lieberals now lose their Senate majority position. Although the Independants don't always vote with the Tories.

Two more Libs and an Indy will be retired at years end (well, by 02 Jan 10) also. http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/senmemb/senate/isenator.asp?sortord=R&Language=E



 
At any time Harper could appoint 4 or 8 extra senators and end the charade.  It's about time.  Mind you the last time this was done was to push through the GST.
 
The way I read it, HM Queen Elizabeth II is not our "Head of State"...she is the State.

As well, also the way I read it, the GG is not a de facto Head of State, but has most of the duties and responsibilities of the Sovereign delegated to him/her by the Sovereign.  This would be like the Minister delegating his/her duties and responsibilities to other civil servants underneath.  Those civil servants do not become "de facto Ministers". 

The Sovereign's authority and sovereignty are not transferred to her representative.  She merrily delegates certain responsibilities to her representative.
 
Correct on both counts.

Here are the Letters Patent through which the sovereign (King George VI) delegated his powers. He could not transfer his powers unless he abdicated in favour of the GG - he did not do that.

A very imprefect analog is CO and DCO. When the CO is away on leave or TD the DCO acts for him/her but the DCO does not become the CO - that lawful appointment remains the property of the person to whom it was assigned.

In the case of a sovereign we still purport to believe - according to the religious service of coronation - that a god assigned the role of monarch to her/him.
 
Given the imminent arrival of Prince Charles and Camilla, several members of the Canadian commentariat have weighed in on the issue of the monarchy most, like the Globe and Mail’s Jeffrey Simpson and the Ottawa Citizen’s Janice Kennedy  - who are pretty ‘normal’ examples of the mainstream opinion - demonstrating a high degree of contempt for the Constitution.

Simpson says:

”Canada has the luxury, assuming the Queen remains in good health – long may she reign! – to prepare for the transition to making the Office of the Governor-General the office of the head of state, period. No constitutional debates about whether the Queen or G-G is head of state, de jure or de facto, distinctions that leave all but the most discerning foreigner, to say nothing of ordinary Canadians, baffled.

There is no golden formula for executing this move, although options abound. The head of state could be selected by Parliament, the people, or the 150 Companions of the Order of Canada, a representative sample of the best citizens the country has produced.

We need only to make the decision that we should make a decision, and then figure out the modality to executing it. Polls, for what they are worth, suggest that Canadians in the majority would be prepared for a change, sensing that, yes, the time is right.”


Kennedy says:

”It is time to say goodbye to our indisputably British monarch. And it's time to replace that monarch with an indisputably Canadian head of state -- legally, culturally, constitutionally and no longer merely the "de facto" noted recently by Rideau Hall.

Predictably, conservative alarmists warn of dire consequences for such rashness, as if we'd be severing the limb of our own past and then bleeding to death. Some, like Calgary Herald columnist Naomi Lakritz, actually predict that a monarchy-free Canada would "only be able to identify itself as U.S. Lite." Except that it's not a limb we're severing. We won't bleed to death.

The power of the monarch -- yes (sigh), our official head of state -- is primarily and effectively symbolic, like the power associated with heads of state in numerous modern democracies around the world. So worrying about the modalities of choosing a head of state is pointless.

In Canada, if we ever got off our duffs and decided to add symbolic independence to actual independence, we could even maintain the process we have now for finding governors general, with governments appointing well-regarded Canadians to the post for fixed terms.

Those figures' authority would derive from and reside permanently in the people and nation of Canada, not in an anachronistic echo of our history.”



That’s all true enough and it’s all well and good, as far as it goes but along comes uncommonly sensible Norman Spector to remind them and us, in this article, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail web site, that we DO have a Constitution and that matters:


We're stuck with Chuck

Norman Spector

Saturday, October 31, 2009

On the eve of the Royal visit, I’m afraid that the antis will just have to suck it up. For the dwindling number of monarchists among us, on the other hand, there’s some good news: it doesn’t really matter what Canadians think about the institution. All the talk (including all the ink being spilled) about nuking the monarchy is just that — talk.

According to the Constitution Act, 1867 (once known, by the way, as the British North America Act, 1867), “The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen.” In other words, the Queen (or the future King) is our Head of State. As Prime Minister Stephen Harper recently reminded the Governor-General.

Far from changing that provision when our Constitution was brought home from London, prime minister Pierre Trudeau was forced to agree to the premiers’ preferred amending formula in order to cut the deal. And, let’s be frank: that amending formula has cast the monarchy in stone. For the ages.

According to section 41 of the Constitution Act, 1982, it would take “resolutions of the Senate and House of Commons and of the legislative assemblies of each province” to cut our ties to the monarchy. Forget about Senate obstruction: If we learned anything from the failure of the Meech Lake accord, it’s that it’s virtually impossible to get unanimous agreement of governments in this country even on the time of day. And the Charlottetown accord taught us that opening the constitution is a recipe for everyone to put forward his or her shopping list of reforms. Which is why no government — even Québec — wants to do it.

So get over it. The monarchy is here to stay. The majority of us, I suspect, will get on with our lives. As to those with strong feelings on either side of the issue, here’s my advice: Make the best of the situation. As I hope Prince Charles and his Royal Consort will do as they travel our magnificent country in the coming days.

But, Spector is wrong to say that we are “stuck, for the ages.”

There IS a provision to change the Constitution. While I agree with Spector that there is NO political will to do that, it means that the possibility of changing the form of the head-of-state is Constitutionally possible. Although getting rid of the monarch (but not the monarchy, per se) is a bigger ‘deal’ than getting rid of British honours (lordships and knighthoods, etc) we did that in 1919 without ever passing a law – the Nickle Resolution asked the sovereign to stop awarding titles to Canadians and the sovereign is obliged – by the really, really important and wholly unwritten parts of the Constitution - to obey the will of her Canadian parliament; and the British parliament in Westminster is, equally, obliged to respect Canada’s sovereignty in all matters related to the Throne of Canada.

A simple resolution saying, for example, that Canada does not recognize the UK’s various Acts of Succession and Settlement (which discriminate against Roman Catholics and, therefore, offend our Charter values) will be sufficient to prevent Charles from claiming or ascending to the Throne of Canada on the sad day when his mother, our most gracious sovereign lady Elizabeth, dies – as she will. There will still be a Throne of Canada, not one word of the Constitution Act (1867 or 1982) will have been changed, and we will, explicitly, remain a constitutional monarchy, the ’property’ of the lawful heirs and successors of Queen Victoria. But, since we will, on a fine Constitutional point,  disagree with the UK and Australia and several other countries about just who those lawful heirs and successors might be, the new King of Australia and, separately, of new King the United Kingdom will not be the new King of Canada because he and his mother, respecting the will of Canada’s parliament as, Constitutionally, they must, will have surrendered his claim to  our crown.

The situation that will obtain is that we will not have a named sovereign. Our sovereign will be absent. Our sovereign will exist, somewhere, we will suppose, but we will be unsure about who (s)he may be. Constitutionally we will all assume that, eventually, we will get around to naming a sovereign but, in the interim – a long, long, long interim, we will select (somehow) a Regent1 of Canada. The regent – we can call him or her whatever we want, governor general, president, whatever, just not king or queen, and we can select him or her in pretty much any way we want – will be both the de facto and de jure head-of-state.


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1. The Wikipedia article is useful because it links (by FN 1) to the OED’s definition - which specifies that a regent may 'protect' the throne during the absence of the monarch - and it shows the long list of regents in current and former monarchies, demonstrating that regencies are not abnormal.
 
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail, is an interesting article about the gun registry and parliament:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/rural-overrepresentation-defeats-the-peoples-will/article1353380/
Rural overrepresentation defeats the people's will

JOHN IBBITSON

Friday, Nov. 06, 2009

If the House of Commons reflected the will of the people, the gun registry would not once again be threatened with the axe.

The long-gun portion of the firearms registry may be ineffective, as Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan maintained yesterday, because police forces rarely use it, concentrating instead on handguns.

Mr. Van Loan was commenting on the Commons vote Wednesday night that approved in principle a private members bill to shut down the registry. He will be belatedly releasing a report today in support of the registry. His government ignored the report. The minister also ignored the truth that police forces insist they value the registry.

But all that is beside the political point. The political point is that the registry is popular with Canadians. About two thirds of them want the registry retained, according to a 2006 Ipsos Reid poll. More recent data doesn't appear to be available, but pollster Darrell Bricker says it is unlikely attitudes have changed since then.

Within that poll are stark contrasts. Urban voters support the registry, and any other measure that limits gun violence. Rural voters oppose the registry, seeing in it an insidious government conspiracy to pry rifles and shotguns out of hunters' and farmers' infuriated hands.

Eighty per cent of us live in cities. If the House of Commons were representative of the nation, the gun registry would survive; the voters of greater Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver would insist on it.

The House of Commons, however, is skewed: by laws and conventions that ensure smaller provinces and Quebec have certain minimum levels of representation in the House.

Within each province, electoral commissions are authorized to adjust riding boundaries in favour of rural voters, on the grounds that otherwise those ridings would become impossibly large.

That is, however, the whole point. Rural ridings would be impossibly large because so few people live in rural parts of the country. Rural overrepresentation in the House distorts policy and confounds the people's will.

The Conservatives love to force votes on the registry because it reveals the splits in the other parties on the issue. A number of Liberal and NDP MPs bolted to the Tories on Wednesday night's vote. Those MPs fear their constituents' wrath if they support the registry, and fear even more the Tory attack ads that would target them in consequence.

So Charlie Angus of Timmins-James Bay, Ontario (NDP); Wayne Easter of Malpeque, PEI (Liberal); Niki Ashton of Churchill, Manitoba (NDP); Scott Andrews of Avalon, Newfoundland and Labrador (Liberal) - 21 opposition MPs in all, from rural or partly rural ridings, voted to shut the registry down, helping the bill to pass second reading comfortably.

The Conservatives are considering adding 30 or more seats to the House of Commons, to address the rural/urban and regional skew. Most of those seats would be in the fast-growing communities on the edges of Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton, where the Tories think they can take on the Liberals and win.

For that reason, Prime Minister Stephen Harper must know that, in the long run, it does his party's future prospects no service to obsess on the registry.

The new, exurban Canadians who live where these new ridings would be formed don't hunt, don't like guns and don't care about Canada's settler heritage.

But having disappointed its core supporters in so many other areas - where are the new tax cuts; where is God in the agenda? - this is one bone that this former Reformer simply must toss at his restive base.

The registry may yet stagger on. The bill must make it through committee and third reading.

Then it heads to the Senate where gun-control advocates will push hard for delay.

Unless the government survives into next fall, the legislation will probably die on the order paper when Parliament dissolves.

Canada's destiny is ever-more urban. If the registry can survive enough minority governments, even the Conservatives might eventually leave it alone.


I agree with Ibbitson about the rural/urban split. I have complained, time and again, about the inequality in our system. But I also agree with parliamentarians: reducing the number of rural ridings, making them “impossibly large” is not the way to go. The right way to go is towards a larger and larger HoC – my guesstimate is that we need about 451 seats in the HoC (up from 308 today – about a 50% increase).

With specific regard to the gun registry debate, in my opinion:

1. It is unlikely to be drastically changed in committee. As a general rule committees should avoid making fundamental changes to bills that passed first reading. It doesn’t always work that way, but I suspect that no one, not even the BQ, wants to really annoy rural voters. Delay may well be the best tool the pro-registry folks have;

2. It may get delayed in the Senate but, for the same ‘fear of farmers’ reason it is unlikely to be voted down or altered in any fundamental way. This is a wedge issue and the Conservatives want to exploit it; thus

3. It may well die on the order paper and the long gun registry may survive as is.

But:

• If this bill does die on the order paper or is altered in committee or in the Senate, the Liberals (and the NDP)  will pay a price in the next election – a price neither party can afford; or

• If this bill passes the public will, fairly quickly, forget. When the long gun part disappears and when there is no spike in gun violence (as I am about 99.9% certain will be the case) people will shrug and say, as the Globe and Mail did in an editorial:

The money spent on the federal long-gun registry would be better spent on preventing handguns and other weapons from crossing the border into Canada, or on youth programs in the most at-risk neighbourhoods. If the registry dies because of a Conservative private-member's bill, which passed a key vote this week, it would not be a defeat for gun control. It would be the end of a costly bureaucratic system whose benefits are uncertain.
...
Gun control will not die with the long-gun registry, if it is indeed scrapped. Canadians will still be required to register handguns, and they will still need a licence for all guns, whether pistols, rifles or shotguns. They will still need to pass safety and background checks meant to prevent dangerous or irresponsible people from owning guns. And rules for the storage of hunting guns need not change.

One member of Parliament argued that there is no reason to burn down a house one has overpaid for. But there is no reason to pay forever for a mistake, either.

This issue, guns, does resonate with Canadians; they want "gun control." The problem for the BQ, Liberals and NDP is that it is not a key issue and people in the fast growing "bedroom" suburbs are unlikely to vote one way or the other based upon the fate of the long gun registry. The central urban vote, which is already Liberal/NDP, that will not change based on the long gun registry. The rural vote will not change unless the bill fails. The place to exploit is the suburbs - where the BQ, Conservatives, Liberals and NDP are all competitive. The Conservatives need to be seen to be tough on guns - on hand guns in the hands of (visible minority) urban kids. That will get suburban voters' attention and support.

This may be a watershed issue. Canadians say, in poll after poll, that they want parliament to work in a minority situation and that they ‘like’ minorities because they hope (against experience) that parliamentarians of all parties will work together. This private member’s bill is almost exactly what Canadians say they want. If parliament tinkers too much with the bill or delays it too long then the Conservatives will be able to say: “See? Minorities are not good. They cannot be made to work. Even when members of several parties vote together on something the Liberals will find a way to defeat the will of the majority.”

There are two questions here:

1. How will parliament ‘work’ on this issue?

2. How should we fix the inequality in our parliamentary system?
 
In my opinion, Mr. Ibbitson makes a false claim:
Urban voters support the registry, and any other measure that limits gun violence. Rural voters oppose the registry, seeing in it an insidious government conspiracy to pry rifles and shotguns out of hunters' and farmers' infuriated hands.
He is implying that the Long Gun Registry (LGR) is a measure that limits gun violence.  I believe that there is no evidence to suggest this.
He also implies that rural voters oppose the LGR because of some conspiracy theory.  I also believe that there is no evidence to suggest this.  (I'm certain that there are some conspiracy theorists who oppose the LGR on these grounds; however, it's not wide spread).
Mr. Ibbitson also ignores the urban folks who SUPPORT scrapping the LGR.  If 8/10 Canadians live in Urban areas, and if 2/3 support the LGR (as is suggested by the polls), then there MUST be some support in the cities, even if ALL those who support it live in cities.  (To illustrate using common denominators, 12/15 Canadians live in cities, while "only" 10/15 support the LGR.  What of the other 2/15 Urban dwellers?)

My opinion is that Rural Canadians who oppose the LGR do so because (a) they realise that it doesn't stop crime and (b) it affects them personally.
 
Mister Ibbitson has a thing about rural Canadians. In about 2005 he pounded on about how the CPC could never come to power as it was shut out of sophisticated, urban Canada. Apparently, places like Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa (as well as we rural rubes) are not sophisticated enough to appreciate the finer things in life such as Liberal MPs.

 
That the scion of a band of inbred Germans followed in his father's adulterous footsteps with a married woman, only to marry her after her husband divorced her, his wife left him, and his ex-wife was killed in an accident, should have no impact on a nation such as Canada.

Unfortunately, we're on the hook for that couple's sightseeing jaunt across the country.  And left with the unfortunate realization that, bad as it might be, the proposed republican alternatives may be worse...
 
Does that mean that 20 % of the population produce the food for the 80 % who live in cities???

Have you ever met, or spoken one on one with John Ibbitson??

 
Rifleman62 said:
Does that mean that 20 % of the population produce the food for the 80 % who live in cities???

Have you ever met, or spoken one on one with John Ibbitson??


Actually, a bit more than 1% of Canadians produce the food for the other 98+% of us. I am certain, but I cannot come up with a number, that at least as many, almost certainly more, Canadians are involved with the transportation, storage, processing and distribution (selling) of food - much of which is imported.

Rural Canada ≠ Canadian farmers. Farmers have been a steadily declining share of the population for over a century but rural Canada has grown – not anywhere near as fast as urban Canada, but the 6 million Canadians (nearly the population of Québec) who live in rural Canada is more than lived there circa 1910 when about half the population was rural (the total population of Canada was just below 7 million in 1910).

What appears, to me, to be happening, right now, is that urban Canada is thinning or, at the very least, not growing, while suburban Canada is growing fast and rural Canada is growing slowly.

None of that excuses the gross representational inequality that is so characteristic of our political system. Canadians farmers or miners or rustics of whatever sort have no ‘entitlement’ to votes that are worth more than say, factory workers or accountants or soldiers. One vote should be worth pretty much the same as another. In an earlier post, where I proposed a 451 seat HoC, I outlined how only about 250,000 Canadians (those living in PEI and the three territories) would have votes that are worth more than twice that of the other 33 million Canadians. The rest of us would all have votes worth only a few (single digit) percentage points more or less than those of anyone else.

Re: Ibbitson. In fact I have met him. He’s a pleasant, well informed and well intentioned gentleman. His problem is that, like Jeffrey Simpson, for example, he’s a classic Torontonian – it doesn’t matter where one was born, being a Torontonian is a state of mind, but for many of them it is a blinkered state of mind that causes them to be unable to see all the parameters of a problem. All they can see is what is straight ahead, in Toronto.
180px-Horse_head_%28PSF%29.png



Ibbitson, like Simpson, sees Washington, London and Beijing from Toronto’s perspective and that how they see Calgary (which Simpson detests, viscerally) and Unity, SK, too.
127347.jpg

Unity, SK – a prairie town a bit West of Saskatoon, near to the farm where my mother was born in 1910.

 
ERC: I was being a smart alec re the 20/80 %.

Spoke to Ibbitson a couple of times. You are right on with the analysis.

He his also a bit vain re hair loss.
 
dapaterson said:
That the scion of a band of inbred Germans followed in his father's adulterous footsteps with a married woman, only to marry her after her husband divorced her, his wife left him, and his ex-wife was killed in an accident, should have no impact on a nation such as Canada.

Tell us how you really feel! 

>:D
 
Technoviking said:
Tell us how you really feel! 

>:D
Hey, if we're going to be under a German (the house of Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha), make them a proper Emperor or Imperatrix, and get the army those funky spiked hats.  That's all I'm saying.
 
dapaterson said:
Hey, if we're going to be under a German (the house of Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha), make them a proper Emperor or Imperatrix Kaiser, and get the army those funky spiked hats.  That's all I'm saying.
Like this one?
HitlerWWI61915.jpg

>:D
 
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