Alberta government thread

[Lumber]

How about a Male league, Female League and Trans League.

A trans only league wouldn't work. You'd have biological males competing against biological females. Actually, you wouldn't, you'd have just biological males because the biological females wouldn't be able to compete with the biological males and would hardly ever "make the cut".

 

[Lumber]

I believe parents should decide what is best for their kids, not a Doc, not the Gov, not you and not I.

I've met and read about too many absolutely terrible parents that we should carte-blanche trust them to make all decisions regarding their children. I mean, we already have laws that would result in your children being taken away from you if you aren't making safe decisions regarding your children; all we are really doing is deciding where the "line" is legally and who has the right to provide input as to which side of that line you are presently on.

 

[Remius]

Society has decided to use gender, age and other things to try and keep sports as fair as possible.

And even before all of this biological women were being disqualified for having too much testosterone. Testosterone regulations that, from what I can see is only applied to some women sports. Which they can still participate if they use medication to lower their levels.

We could base sports on something other than gender like testosterone levels but society is where it is at at this time.

 

[MilEME09]

In other AB news, the government tables a bill to prevent AIMCo from being sued for the loss of over a billion dollars from a bad trading strategy. Once again I see this as a move to shield the government from accountability, and claiming they are doing this because there is no money for legal action is frankly a poor excuse. It should be noted the chair of AIMCo is currently Former PM Stephen Harper

Alberta tables legislation aimed at blocking $1.3 billion claim against AIMCo

Alberta has tabled a new bill that would shield the province from a $1.3 billion claim launched against AIMCo.

edmontonjournal.com

 

[Brad Sallows]

just sounds like the nanny state telling parents what medical treatments their children can or can not have.

Or, there's the other framing: the state putting (or trying to put) guardrails around parents to safeguard the interests of children. It's a balancing act. Should be vaccinated? Shouldn't be subject to FGM or child marriage? Shouldn't be irreversibly sterilized? Should receive some kind of K-12 education? Etc.

 

[Brad Sallows]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/world-athletics-trans-ban-debate-1.6790454

So there is a 7 year old male in Alberta who identifies as a female and wants to be a boxer. Has diagnosed gender disphoria. How does this hypothetical transgender young person achieve their goal under Alberta's new laws?

By the time he's 7-1/2 he'll want to be a fireman. By 8, an astronaut. By 8-1/2, a cowboy. Etc.

See the problem? Why would this one thing be different than all the other things about which children frequently change their minds?

 

[QV]

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/world-athletics-trans-ban-debate-1.6790454

So there is a 7 year old male in Alberta who identifies as a female and wants to be a boxer. Has diagnosed gender disphoria. How does this hypothetical transgender young person achieve their goal under Alberta's new laws?

Extremely high chance a 7 year old doesn't have any idea what they are talking about or actually really want. Sorry, 7 year olds don't get decision making power, especially for significant life altering decisions.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I've noticed the trans-in-sports discussion always focuses on the interests of the trans child. Never the interests of the other children.

 

[Altair]

Extremely high chance a 7 year old doesn't have any idea what they are talking about or actually really want. Sorry, 7 year olds don't get decision making power, especially for significant life altering decisions.

Sure.

What age would you say gender disphoria manifests itself in a way that can be actionable by parents and doctors?

 

[QV]

Actionable is a broad term and I'm not playing your game anymore. Suffice to say I'm satisfied with Alberta's current position.

 

[MrWhyt]

Or, there's the other framing: the state putting (or trying to put) guardrails around parents to safeguard the interests of children.

how does denying them medical treatment safeguard their interests?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sure.

What age would you say gender disphoria manifests itself in a way that can be actionable by parents and doctors?

Age of adult consent.

Yes, it forces kids to go almost all of the way through puberty with birth gender. Some who did really want to change will be disappointed, and some who did not really want to change will be intact.

All sorts of people live with all sorts of physical shortcomings that affect their prospects in later life. Life isn't "fair". Get over it.

 

[foresterab]

In other AB news, the government tables a bill to prevent AIMCo from being sued for the loss of over a billion dollars from a bad trading strategy. Once again I see this as a move to shield the government from accountability, and claiming they are doing this because there is no money for legal action is frankly a poor excuse. It should be noted the chair of AIMCo is currently Former PM Stephen Harper

Alberta tables legislation aimed at blocking $1.3 billion claim against AIMCo

Alberta has tabled a new bill that would shield the province from a $1.3 billion claim launched against AIMCo.

edmontonjournal.com

And yet this is the same group (AIMCo) that is supposed to manage the Alberta Pension if they withdrew from the CPP.

And teachers are still pissed off about their independent pension being forced under AIMCo years ago

Frankly I look at the CPP board as a positive model and often use the AIMCo incompetence as a rebuttal to some "separatists" to question if they truly understand what they are signing up for..

 

[Altair]

Actionable is a broad term and I'm not playing your game anymore. Suffice to say I'm satisfied with Alberta's current position.

I do like that whenever pressed on this matter, people get uncomfortable and run away from the conversation.

That said, as per usual, when presented with a thought exercise of how a real life application of these Alberta rules would effect a trans individual instead of broadly agreeing with with the rules without thinking about how it effects people, the response is

A) I don't want to talk about it.

B)Get fucked trans people.

C)We could do this fantasy thing that doesn't exist in the year of our Lord, 2025, nor will it exist anytime soon, not is anyone advocating for it, least of all the trans community.

With the intellectual dishonesty and cruel, obvious hatred behind laws such as Alberta's laid bare, I'll leave it at that.

Thank you, and everyone else for proving my point.

 

[Altair]

how does denying them medical treatment safeguard their interests?

It's in their best interest to not be trans, obviously.

 

[Brad Sallows]

how does denying them medical treatment safeguard their interests?

One person's medical treatment is, in this case, another person's mutilation. Lobotomy at one time was just "medical treatment". That's just one example. "First, do no harm" is still a solid principle.

A truth about "long-term effects of puberty blockers" is that irrefutable conclusions aren't available yet. It's a Catch-22 situation. We can't know the truth unless we experiment on children. I shouldn't have to remind, but: we should never, never, never experiment on children. The irrefutable conclusions should by definition always be out of our reach. But some people have to play their cultural political games.

 

[QV]

I do like that whenever pressed on this matter, people get uncomfortable and run away from the conversation.

That said, as per usual, when presented with a thought exercise of how a real life application of these Alberta rules would effect a trans individual instead of broadly agreeing with with the rules without thinking about how it effects people, the response is

A) I don't want to talk about it.

B)Get fucked trans people.

C)We could do this fantasy thing that doesn't exist in the year of our Lord, 2025, nor will it exist anytime soon, not is anyone advocating for it, least of all the trans community.

With the intellectual dishonesty and cruel, obvious hatred behind laws such as Alberta's laid bare, I'll leave it at that.

Thank you, and everyone else for proving my point.

If you hadn't blocked certain posters, you'd already see answers to your questions. No use in repeating already sound answers. You can take your rage ball and go home. Rationale people can discuss without letting emotion control their responses.

 

[MrWhyt]

One person's medical treatment is, in this case, another person's mutilation.

we're talking about puberty blockers not surgery.

A truth about "long-term effects of puberty blockers" is that irrefutable conclusions aren't available yet.

multiple studies have shown their effectiveness

I shouldn't have to remind, but: we should never, never, never experiment on children.

good thing we're not, we're giving them medical treatment.

But some people have to play their cultural political games.

yes, like banning medical treatment for children.

 

[Brad Sallows]

we're talking about puberty blockers not surgery.


multiple studies have shown their effectiveness

Oh, there's no question they block puberty. But the question of long-term effects is still open. I realize some want to declare "the debate is over; let's move on" but that's not the actual state of things.

The sufficient condition for not doing any of this is that we're experimenting on children. That's where the debate ought to end.

 

[Altair]

If you hadn't blocked certain posters, you'd already see answers to your questions. No use in repeating already sound answers. You can take your rage ball and go home. Rationale people can discuss without letting emotion control their responses.

Its already clear that Alberta and others don't give a damn about the very children they say they are trying to protect and the best thing any person with a trans child should do is move to one of the other provinces that don't pass hate based legislation.

Not much more to add.