High Speed Train Coming?-split from boosting Canada’s military spending"

[Brad Sallows]

And likely face the same results of big corporations nickle and diming the once functional company to a husk of its former self, living off the memory of the good times rather than any desire to maintain standards and good customer service.

Which kinds of nickel and diming do you have in mind?

 

[ytz]

Because there is no $$$ in it.

Funny how $60-90B is suddenly not enough.....

Seems enough for every major international rail developer in the world to bid. Except your employer. That says something.

 

[Altair]

Which kinds of nickel and diming do you have in mind?

Do I really need to list the sins of Air Canada since it went private to this thread?

Is this not common knowledge by now?

 

[ytz]

They already caved once, agreeing to run this to Quebec city, this adding Laval, trois Rivières and Québec City to the route, probably the money sink of the system right there.

Laval makes sense to me because they are going through there. Just like a second GTA station would make sense. I wish they went through Dorval and integrated with the airport. Would have been amazing for Ottawa residents to access flights at Dorval in 45 mins.

Too bad Montreal-Quebec City was imposed on them. Would have been good for a future phase at the same time as say Toronto-Pearson-Kitchener-London. But I'm glad they are pushing that segment construction start later.

I'm not opposed to the idea of Smiths Falls as a transfer station. But really, the biggest benefit to them will come from the infrastructure being built enabling some kind of fast and frequent commuter service to Ottawa. It's possible to have a 45 min high speed commuter service with more stops.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Funny how $60-90B is suddenly not enough.....

Seems enough for every major international rail developer in the world to bid. Except your employer. That says something.

Maybe it says that they know the terrain (physical and political). A prudent bet is that the project performs approximately at the Canadian mean, for which recent examples are not particularly encouraging. A more prudent bet is that it's a novelty and will do worse. It's a bit of a head-scratcher how so many people can suspend common sense despite so much past concrete evidence. "This time we get it done on time and on budget fer sure!"

Not owning the project means not letting the governmental camel further inside the tent. Passenger services invite meddling in ways that freight services do not. When the finger-pointing starts, not being involved with the project will be the only safe place.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Do I really need to list the sins of Air Canada since it went private to this thread?

Is this not common knowledge by now?

Depends on what you're talking about, because my guess is that if you start to enumerate things, they'll be things that were driven by consumers who want, above all else, cheaper air fares. They won't be the fault of "Air Canada".

 

[Altair]

Laval makes sense to me because they are going through there. Just like a second GTA station would make sense. I wish they went through Dorval and integrated with the airport. Would have been amazing for Ottawa residents to access flights at Dorval in 45 mins.

Too bad Montreal-Quebec City was imposed on them. Would have been good for a future phase at the same time as say Toronto-Pearson-Kitchener-London. But I'm glad they are pushing that segment construction start later.

I'm glad it's being pushed to the right as well, because I don't see how that line makes money. There are what, 7-9 flights between the two each day? Compared to hundreds per day between the Ottawa Montreal Toronto triangle.

Politics.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Funny how $60-90B is suddenly not enough.....

Seems enough for every major international rail developer in the world to bid. Except your employer. That says something.

I'll be frank, you sound like a lobbyist/political shill. You ignore all criticisms of said project. You conveniently ignore any negative feedback and don't even answer to it. What's even more telling is you provide no background or quantifiable information with regards to what sort of expertise you bring to the table.

Essentially, you're a cheerleader. Put your cards on the table and maybe I will think otherwise.

As far as my opinions are concerned. I am speaking as citizen and taxpayer who also happens to work as a railroader. There are legitimate criticisms of this project which you can ignore as much as you like and continue to situate the estimate to your hearts content.

There is a long list of failed Govt infrastructure projects which haven't measured up to the cheerleaders that preceded them. I am not against a HSR project in Canada, I am against one that seems to be designed to line the pockets of the Laurentian elites as opposed to providing an actual reputable and valuable service.

 

[ytz]

I'm glad it's being pushed to the right as well, because I don't see how that line makes money. There are what, 7-9 flights between the two each day? Compared to hundreds per day between the Ottawa Montreal Toronto triangle.

Politics.

I think it was mostly the visibility of having the same amount of track on both sides of the border. But also the fact the VdQ is the provincial capital. Add in the fact that going West of Union in Toronto is a dog's breakfast till Metrolinx sorts out what it wants to do there.

 

[ytz]

I'll be frank, you sound like a lobbyist/political shill.

Projection from the guy who keep's talking his employer's book.

I just want proper infrastructure built in Canada. And for more than just commodities being moved.

Also, you didn't answer the question. Why did every other major rail company in the world bid but not the two Canadian freight rail companies? And not just in Canada. Show me what other passenger rail project they've bid on anywhere in the world. Meanwhile the companies who actually bid have global portfolios they can show.... Which is the only reason you can criticize them. Pretty rich for a guy from a company with zero accomplishments outside their protected North American market to suggest the competition is incompetent.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Projection from the guy who keep's talking his employer's book.

I just want proper infrastructure built in Canada. And for more than just commodities being moved.

OK pal, whatever you say

 

[Altair]

I think it was mostly the visibility of having the same amount of track on both sides of the border. But also the fact the VdQ is the provincial capital. Add in the fact that going West of Union in Toronto is a dog's breakfast till Metrolinx sorts out what it wants to do there.

Oh, I know it was to get Quebec on board. Not blind to that. It's just that Montreal Toronto has a ungodly amount of planes flying between each city. Ottawa adds to that as well. But Quebec city just doesn't add that much to the system. They are not a flight hub.

If ALTO is there to help displace air traffic, what air traffic is there to displace going to Quebec city? And why in the world are they stopping at Trois Rivières? I know it won't slow the system down that much, but all of the 10 people who will get on and off there doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Its a sad reality for Quebec but the economic engine and place with the population density to support HSR begins and ends in Montreal.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Also, you didn't answer the question. Why did every other major rail company in the world bid but not the two Canadian freight rail companies?

Because they are knowledgeable enough to say "Frig that boondoggle, we still have to operate here when it all falls apart", would be my guess.

 

[ytz]

And why in the world are they stopping at Trois Rivières? I know it won't slow the system down that much, but all of the 10 people who will get on and off there doesn't seem worth the hassle.

Trois Rivieres and Peterborough are the two biggest winners. Both end up 45 mins from the downtown core of a major metro. It'll help with housing pressures. I'm always surprised to see how many people commute by VIA to Belleville, Coburg and even Kingston. Those people will all be in Peterborough when Alto is built. Similarly in Quebec for Trois Rivieres.

Humphrey is right about me self-declaring. I'm planning on becoming a slumlord in Peterborough when the Alto construction contract is signed.

 

[YZT580]

And who built the dam?

Alcan

And who built the dam?

ALCAN or didn't you bother reading my original response? Here, maybe this will help with your comprehension. The company invested over CA$500 million (equivalent to CA$3.3 billion) and employed over 35,000 workers over the five years required to build the Kenney Dam,

 

[ytz]

Because they are knowledgeable enough to say "Frig that boondoggle, we still have to operate here when it all falls apart", would be my guess.

Doesn't explain why they don't have a single development outside Canada-USA while the rest of those companies build all over the world.

What does explain it? They don't have the ability to compete internationally.

 

[Altair]

Trois Rivieres and Peterborough are the two biggest winners. Both end up 45 mins from the downtown core of a major metro. It'll help with housing pressures. I'm always surprised to see how many people commute by VIA to Belleville, Coburg and even Kingston. Those people will all be in Peterborough when Alto is built. Similarly in Quebec for Trois Rivieres.

Humphrey is right about me self-declaring. I'm planning on becoming a slumlord in Peterborough when the Alto construction contract is signed.

I suppose it could be forward thinking.

I never really viewed TR as a suburb. More a place to get gas on the way to Carnaval de Quebec

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Projection from the guy who keep's talking his employer's book.

I just want proper infrastructure built in Canada. And for more than just commodities being moved.

Also, you didn't answer the question. Why did every other major rail company in the world bid but not the two Canadian freight rail companies? And not just in Canada. Show me what other passenger rail project they've bid on anywhere in the world. Meanwhile the companies who actually bid have global portfolios they can show.... Which is the only reason you can criticize them. Pretty rich for a guy from a company with zero accomplishments outside their protected North American market to suggest the competition is incompetent.

Only other thing I'll say is you still haven't provided one retort to any of the criticisms levied. You even blamed VIAs problems on organizations that have nothing to do with VIA. Govt has the power to change anything they want with the stroke of a pen.

The latest criticisms levied against this project regarding expropriation are well founded because I can think of a number of other "infrastructure" projects that were well intentioned, that resulted in large land expropriation that never got done or were such boondoggle they amounted to nothing.

Mirabel Airport being one. CFB Trenton being another.

Expropriation of heritage farm reflects troubling trend | Better Farming | Keeping Canadian Farmers and Agriculture Professionals Connected with News, Information and Resources.

Expropriation of heritage farm reflects troubling trend

www.betterfarming.com

They still haven't built jackshit on Meyer's Farm btw... a 200 year old piece of pristine farmland that was originally gifted to the family for service during the War of 1812. More proof the Govt will break your legs, hand you a set of crutches then expect you to be thankful for the crutches even though it was they who broke your legs in the first place.

 

[ytz]

Alcan

ALCAN or didn't you bother reading my original response? Here, maybe this will help with your comprehension. The company invested over CA$500 million (equivalent to CA$3.3 billion) and employed over 35,000 workers over the five years required to build the Kenney Dam,

I was alluding to another project that provides power....

Site C dam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Doesn't explain why they don't have a single development outside Canada-USA while the rest of those companies build all over the world.

What does explain it? They don't have the ability to compete internationally.

There is a lot to be said for a company just doing what they know, do right, and stay in their own lanes....