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Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

There was another Sheffield between the T42 fro Falklands fame and the T26 in build. A Type 22 sold to Chile. So, right next door to Argentina for that extra level of friskiness.
Didn’t know that !!
 
I have a hard time thinking that this idea will go through at the timeline Norway seemingly wants, the UK is desperate for Type 23 replacements and their yards cannot supply both domestic and foreign needs.
They can if they build two and then build one for Norway, built another for UK etc... UK has the same crewing issues as all the rest of us, and digesting a new ship takes some time, so it will allow for that time if done properly. At least IMHO it will work.
 
They can if they build two and then build one for Norway, built another for UK etc... UK has the same crewing issues as all the rest of us, and digesting a new ship takes some time, so it will allow for that time if done properly. At least IMHO it will work.
I have my doubts if the RN will compromise their own fleet in order to bring Norway into the fold as from their timeline but at the same time, they are no strangers to questionable or strange decisions. They are going to need likely one of the current RN frigates right out of the yard as Norway is requiring one vessel delivered by 2029. They aren't going to give Norway/Norway won't want HMS Glasgow because first in class ships like this are always a bit of a mess, so the UK would have to start giving up later vessels and Norway likely wouldn't have much chance to modify them along the way.

Considering how stretched the RN is, how old much of their Type 23 fleet is aging old rapidly and how utterly inadequate the Type 31's are for ASW work, it would definitely be a decision to further slow the rollout of proper frigate replacements. The RN is in an even worst state than Canada as the Type 23's had a designed lifespan of 18 years with the newest ship being 22~ and the oldest being 33~ years old. Atleast the CPF's have a designed life of 30 years and are between 28-32 years old. We might not have the resources of the RN but we also aren't doing anywhere near the deployments either.
 

update on the construction of the build hall in the UK and an estimated timeline on type 26 construction
Considering how stretched the RN is, how old much of their Type 23 fleet is aging old rapidly and how utterly inadequate the Type 31's are for ASW work, it would definitely be a decision to further slow the rollout of proper frigate replacements. The RN is in an even worst state than Canada as the Type 23's had a designed lifespan of 18 years with the newest ship being 22~ and the oldest being 33~ years old. Atleast the CPF's have a designed life of 30 years and are between 28-32 years old. We might not have the resources of the RN but we also aren't doing anywhere near the deployments either.
were also 9 yrs behind the RN on replacement though
 
The RN is in an even worst state than Canada as the Type 23's had a designed lifespan of 18 years with the newest ship being 22~ and the oldest being 33~ years old. Atleast the CPF's have a designed life of 30 years and are between 28-32 years old. We might not have the resources of the RN but we also aren't doing anywhere near the deployments either.
Not sure that truly means the UK is a worse state. Old is old,
Just because Canada expected the CPF’s to last 30 years, doesn’t mean that the RN is in worse shape with the 23’s being planned for 18 years. The RCN average is still older…
 
Not sure that truly means the UK is a worse state. Old is old,
Just because Canada expected the CPF’s to last 30 years, doesn’t mean that the RN is in worse shape with the 23’s being planned for 18 years. The RCN average is still older…
This is the best article I have seen on the Type 23 life extensions. The comments are particularly interesting. In any case, presumably many of the issues described with regards to structural issues are being faced by our ships.

 
Not sure that truly means the UK is a worse state. Old is old,
Just because Canada expected the CPF’s to last 30 years, doesn’t mean that the RN is in worse shape with the 23’s being planned for 18 years. The RCN average is still older…
Ship​
Age from Commissioning​
Years Past Designed Service Life​
HMCS Halifax31 years, 9 months1 year, 9 months
HMCS Vancouver30 years, 7 months7 months
HMCS Ville de Quebec29 years, 9 monthsNone
HMCS Toronto30 years, 8 months8 months
HMCS Regina29 years, 6 monthsNone
HMCS Calgary29 years, 1 monthNone
HMCS Montreal29 years, 8 monthsNone
HMCS Fredericton 29 years, 7 monthsNone
HMCS Winnipeg27 years, 9 monthsNone
HMCS Charlottetown 28 years, 7 monthsNone
HMCS St. John's 27 years, 9 monthsNone
HMCS Ottawa27 years, 6 monthsNone
HMS Argyll32 years, 10 months14 years
HMS Lancaster31 years, 11 months13 years
HMS Iron Duke30 years, 10 months12 years
HMS Northumberland29 years, 4 months11 years
HMS Richmond28 years, 9 months10 years
HMS Somerset27 years, 6 months9 years
HMS Sutherland26 years, 9 months8 years
HMS Kent23 years, 10 months5 years
HMS Portland22 years, 11 months4 years
HMS St Albans21 years, 10 months3 years

CPF's are on average older than Type 23's but the chart and median is skewed by the fact the RN has sold or decommissioned 6 vessels of the class while the RCN has retained the entire class. When you design a ship specifically for a certain period of service, that is something that directly affects the margins and specifics of the design. For all of the hard service and abuse the CPF's have dealt with, they were atleast designed with a considerably longer service life compared to the Type 23's and their money saving exercise. The RCN is going to be hurting more in the long term due to the CSC being so far off compared to the Type 26 procurement but this circles back to my concerns about the RN interrupting their own procurements for Norway, much of their fleet is quite a bit over their designed life already.

Can they do it? Sure they can but their own force potentially will suffer in the meantime.
 
=
Ship​
Age from Commissioning​
Years Past Designed Service Life​
AGE AT REPLACEMENT???
HMCS Halifax31 years, 9 months1 year, 9 months41+
HMCS Vancouver30 years, 7 months7 months42+
HMCS Ville de Quebec29 years, 9 monthsNone42+
HMCS Toronto30 years, 8 months8 months44+
HMCS Regina29 years, 6 monthsNone44+
HMCS Calgary29 years, 1 monthNone45+
HMCS Montreal29 years, 8 monthsNone45+
HMCS Fredericton29 years, 7 monthsNone46+
HMCS Winnipeg27 years, 9 monthsNone44+
HMCS Charlottetown28 years, 7 monthsNone46+
HMCS St. John's27 years, 9 monthsNone46+
HMCS Ottawa27 years, 6 monthsNone47+
Ship​
Age from Commissioning​
Years Past Designed Service Life​
AGE AT REPLACEMENT???
HMCS Halifax31 years, 9 months1 year, 9 months41+
HMCS Vancouver30 years, 7 months7 months42+
HMCS Ville de Quebec29 years, 9 monthsNone42+
HMCS Toronto30 years, 8 months8 months44+
HMCS Regina29 years, 6 monthsNone44+
HMCS Calgary29 years, 1 monthNone45+
HMCS Montreal29 years, 8 monthsNone45+
HMCS Fredericton29 years, 7 monthsNone46+
HMCS Winnipeg27 years, 9 monthsNone44+
HMCS Charlottetown28 years, 7 monthsNone46+
HMCS St. John's27 years, 9 monthsNone46+
HMCS Ottawa27 years, 6 monthsNone47+


We've got a long road ahead of us and Im sure some ships will be worse off than other, age not being the only factor. I doubt Irving is going to be able to punch the CSC's out faster than one a year once they get going
 
Well, even if we can’t post this article, someone else did it for us! Production starting (somewhat) in June of some components of CSC. You guys are on your way! Congratulations!
 
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My read is they are talking about the test block, which they have previously announced. Nothing wrong with that, it's validating their design software, methods and materials.
 
There was a discussion here a few months ago regarding the exact 30mm system being fitted to the CSC, it would seem that the MARLIN-WS 30mm is being replaced by a new turret and gun combination.


With plans to move from in-service secondary 25 mm to 30 mm remote-controlled weapon stations (RCWS), the Italian Navy has contracted Leonardo to provide the first Lionfish 30s with X-Gun for the new PPX Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) programme. The Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) has selected and contracted the Lionfish 30/X guns under the new Canadian Surface Combatant programme to build and deliver fifteen new ships.

From what I can gather, Lionfish is the new line of remote weapon systems designed by Leonardo to improve on the Marlin mount. The X-gun is a Bushmaster competitor which can take NATO standard 30mm ammunition while having the same rate of fire, but apparently more selectable options for alternative fire rates and better suited to the role of countering unmanned systems. Better ammunition, more ready rounds alongside increased reliability and easier maintenance tied up in an enclosed stealth mount. Positive upgrade in capability if the marketing is to be believed, Leonardo has a pretty good track record for systems like this.

4_Lionfish-30-rendering_@Leonardo-1536x927.jpg.webp
 
There was a discussion here a few months ago regarding the exact 30mm system being fitted to the CSC, it would seem that the MARLIN-WS 30mm is being replaced by a new turret and gun combination.




From what I can gather, Lionfish is the new line of remote weapon systems designed by Leonardo to improve on the Marlin mount. The X-gun is a Bushmaster competitor which can take NATO standard 30mm ammunition while having the same rate of fire, but apparently more selectable options for alternative fire rates and better suited to the role of countering unmanned systems. Better ammunition, more ready rounds alongside increased reliability and easier maintenance tied up in an enclosed stealth mount. Positive upgrade in capability if the marketing is to be believed, Leonardo has a pretty good track record for systems like this.

4_Lionfish-30-rendering_@Leonardo-1536x927.jpg.webp
Replace the RWS on the AOP's with the same system and use the AOP's gun on a few of the Kingstons or better yet buy more of the same system, so every ship including the AOR's have the same gun. it will make training, maintaining and parts a lot easier.
 
Replace the RWS on the AOP's with the same system and use the AOP's gun on a few of the Kingstons or better yet buy more of the same system, so every ship including the AOR's have the same gun. it will make training, maintaining and parts a lot easier.
There is a difference in weight of roughly 900 lbs between what I can find for a similar 25mm mount (AOPS type likely heavier) and the listed weight of the Lionfish, definitely an option for AOPS to increase its punch on the cheap with minimal issues compared to other options. The AOR's are apparently supposed to have .50 cal RWS (the versions used on the CPF's?) so that might be more of an issue to swap out. MCDV's 40mm Boffin mount is hard to get a weight estimate from but I found a low end estimate of 2,500~ lbs, potentially within plausibility of fitting a 3,200 lb Lionfish mount on an MCDV but I'm not sure if the effort would be worth the result. It's not just the mount but the fire control systems aboard to use it as well.
 
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