Pipelines

[Quirky]

Daniel Smith was quick out of the gate with throwing down the gauntlet.

Alberta introduces bill that would make it easier to separate

A day after Canada’s Liberals won a fourth consecutive mandate, Alberta’s government has introduced a bill that would make it easier to start a referendum – including one on separating from Canada. “We were going to introduce it regardless of what the outcome was,” said Alberta Premier Danielle...

edmonton.citynews.ca

I wish her great luck and hope Sask and Man follow suit. Not sure if BC can ever make a decision......on anything. I'd love to see what Quebec would do without the billions of free transfer payment they receive.

What if.......we shut down production, ALL move to the East coast and simultaneously drive their property values and their welfare rates to the moon?

 

[Remius]

Daniel Smith was quick out of the gate with throwing down the gauntlet.

Alberta introduces bill that would make it easier to separate

A day after Canada’s Liberals won a fourth consecutive mandate, Alberta’s government has introduced a bill that would make it easier to start a referendum – including one on separating from Canada. “We were going to introduce it regardless of what the outcome was,” said Alberta Premier Danielle...

edmonton.citynews.ca

I wish her great luck and hope Sask and Man follow suit. Not sure if BC can ever make a decision......on anything. I'd love to see what Quebec would do without the billions of free transfer payment they receive.

Never took you for a separatist.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

.

 

[suffolkowner]

government might have to foot the bill for pipelines and refineries right now for sure although WCS is doing pretty well relative to the global market

WCS is pricing pretty good at Vancouver and Cushing and Houston vs Hardisty. Some of that is transport of course

Why are Western Canadian oil prices so strong?: Rory Johnston for Inside Policy | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

While Canadian crude markets are as optimistic as they’ve been in months regarding US tariffs, the industry is still far from safe.

macdonaldlaurier.ca

 

[Brad Sallows]

1) I'm not sure I follow that argument. One can know that something needs to occur (like surgery for cancer or replacing a leaky roof) but I can admit that they may not be aware of the best approach about how to go about doing it.

Norway has a fund because it had an uncommon situation: a source of revenues (oil/gas royalties) that far exceeded what it wanted to spend. Almost all countries don't have that, including Canada - the per capita extra revenue is key. (A country with a lot of extra money but a huge population wouldn't be able to achieve much effect.) Setting revenues aside has a cost: what else could be done with the money?

2) I think that we are talking about 2 different things. By ROI, I'm talking about what the CPPIB needs to 'make' in order to deal with the amount of money paying out vs coming in.

I'm talking about the plan's RoI (the real RoI from the investments) versus the effective RoI of the plan members (the effective return on their contributions). The fund gets about 7% (so do I, long term on my private investments). CPP plan members get about 2%. I'm sure as shit glad the CPP didn't require higher contributions while I was paying in. The spread between 7% and 2% is a source of wealth. Even if it's just reinvested (infrastructure, not consumption) without government ever confiscating a dime, it produces revenue indirectly (mainly, from income and other taxes).

Theoretically the government can create a fund by borrowing and relying on maintaining a favourable spread between what it earns and what it pays to service the borrowed debt. But then we could just look at the existing accumulated deficit (debt) as a "sovereign wealth fund" with a negative balance. Whenever the accumulated deficit is reduced, the decrease in servicing costs means there is more money for something else.

We don't need to create a sovereign wealth fund. We could achieve the desirable effects with existing tools.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Never took you for a separatist.

I always suppose that when a group leaves someone, he might as well leave the group. The only other choice is to settle for what they permit you to do and have.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Norway has a fund because it had an uncommon situation: a source of revenues (oil/gas royalties) that far exceeded what it wanted to spend. Almost all countries don't have that, including Canada - the per capita extra revenue is key. (A country with a lot of extra money but a huge population wouldn't be able to achieve much effect.) Setting revenues aside has a cost: what else could be done with the money?

I'm talking about the plan's RoI (the real RoI from the investments) versus the effective RoI of the plan members (the effective return on their contributions). The fund gets about 7% (so do I, long term on my private investments). CPP plan members get about 2%. I'm sure as shit glad the CPP didn't require higher contributions while I was paying in. The spread between 7% and 2% is a source of wealth. Even if it's just reinvested (infrastructure, not consumption) without government ever confiscating a dime, it produces revenue indirectly (mainly, from income and other taxes).

Theoretically the government can create a fund by borrowing and relying on maintaining a favourable spread between what it earns and what it pays to service the borrowed debt. But then we could just look at the existing accumulated deficit (debt) as a "sovereign wealth fund" with a negative balance. Whenever the accumulated deficit is reduced, the decrease in servicing costs means there is more money for something else.

We don't need to create a sovereign wealth fund. We could achieve the desirable effects with existing tools.

You got the right guy in the PM chair if you want to borrow and invest.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Never took you for a separatist.

I'm not. I just prefer freedom and an honest government. However, it's never stopped you from judging and mislabelling me any number of times before. Perhaps you should just stick with what you know and not worry about me.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

government might have to foot the bill for pipelines and refineries right now for sure although WCS is doing pretty well relative to the global market

WCS is pricing pretty good at Vancouver and Cushing and Houston vs Hardisty. Some of that is transport of course

Why are Western Canadian oil prices so strong?: Rory Johnston for Inside Policy | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

While Canadian crude markets are as optimistic as they’ve been in months regarding US tariffs, the industry is still far from safe.

macdonaldlaurier.ca

The Carney net zero government that wants 75% of fossil fuels left in the ground is going to spring for pipelines and refineries? Alberta already has a profitable line and customer for their WCS.

Yes, that's sarcasm.

 

[Furniture]

What if.......we shut down production, ALL move to the East coast and simultaneously drive their property values and their welfare rates to the moon?

There are more people drawing EI and welfare in the West than in the East.

As a matter of fact, Fort Mac wouldn't be so "Newf*" if Easterners didn't go there to do the work the people of AB wouldn't do...

*"Newf" as in not from AB, like my ex in-laws called me, despite multiple reminders I'm not a "Newf", and have never set foot in that province. But why let reality get int he way of a good stereotype...

 

[Remius]

I'm not. I just prefer freedom and an honest government. However, it's never stopped you from judging and mislabelling me any number of times before. Perhaps you should just stick with what you know and not worry about me.

Wishing a separatist luck and hoping others follow suit is what you did. If you don’t want to be judged then perhaps you should govern yourself better to avoid misunderstandings.

Like I said. I never took you for a separatist or a separatist supporter. Which is why your comment was a bit surprising.

 

[Kirkhill]

Why?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Wishing a separatist luck and hoping others follow suit is what you did. If you don’t want to be judged then perhaps you should govern yourself better to avoid misunderstandings.

Like I said. I never took you for a separatist or a separatist supporter. Which is why your comment was a bit surprising.

Go find another chew toy. I don't need to justify a single thing to you. Your judgement sucks and you don't have the right or the knowledge to judge me or anyone else. You also don't have any right to tell me how to govern myself. I don't give a fuck what you think, but suffice to say, you're no in a position to discerned or lecture me on my motives, my thinking or my patriotism.

 

[Remius]

Why?

Why what?

 

[suffolkowner]

The Carney net zero government that wants 75% of fossil fuels left in the ground is going to spring for pipelines and refineries? Alberta already has a profitable line and customer for their WCS.

Yes, that's sarcasm.

Well Trudeau bought a pipeline not that it did him much good

 

[Remius]

Go find another chew toy. I don't need to justify a single thing to you.

You don’t. And frankly I could care less if you do. If you want to support a western separatist movement go for it. Expect to be called out in a public forum. You could have clarified or what not but you decided to rant. Ok.

Your judgement sucks and you don't have the right or the knowledge to judge me or anyone else.

lol. There is so much irony in that…

You also don't have any right to tell me how to govern myself. I don't give a fuck what you think, but suffice to say, you're no in a position to discerned or lecture me on my motives, my thinking or my patriotism.

You obviously cared enough to respond. Like I said. I can only evaluate what and how you write.

Perhaps putting me on ignore would help calm you down. I’m absolutely fine with that.

Have whatever last word you want and I’ll walk away to avoid derailing this further.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well Trudeau bought a pipeline not that it did him much good

No better way to ensure it won't get used?

 

[Kirkhill]

Why what?

The site has been locked up for 24 hours and the only thread I find open is conducting a slagging match.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The site has been locked up for 24 hours and the only thread I find open is conducting a slagging match.

No worries. Pepsi doesn't interest me.

I've had my last conversation with sanctimonious thinkers.

Sorry for the angst Kirkhill.

 

[foresterab]

To re-focus the discussion on what might be a source of funds for a sovereign wealth investment fund - not CPP - I've often wondered about the following:

1) Offshore oil and gas revenues in international waters - a portion of funds going towards it (looking at Sable Island/Hibernia offshore).

2) Carbon Tax charged on imported energy products from outside the country. Heck go broader and call it any non-renewable resource or natural resource we produce in Canada. Canada has lots of iron, magnesium, potash and other minerals that should be treated if imported into the country the same as oil and gas. Would need to be careful though as there are additional international agreements that would take priority.

3) Business bailouts - when I think of past government investment dollars into Bombardier, Ford, Stellaris, Air Canada....if you ask for government assistance then stock shares should follow as in kind contributions. Profits earned through this investment should be returned to the fund after the initial tax payer cost is recouped...and it keeps the Federal government from being able to sell a good business in order to "cook" the budget into a more positive spin.

4) Penalties for environmental/detrimental business practices. Separate from CRA tax avoidance penalties and while they are not a ton of money they can add up over time.

5) We no longer have Canada Savings Bonds. But is there an appetite out there for a fixed rate bond that generates more than the 1.5% interest savings accounts are offering in banks?

6) Intellectual patents/software/AI Initial Purchase Offer Tax Break. We'll offer a tax break for 5? 10 years in exchange for 50% of the normal tax going into the wealth fund and/or shares. Call it a small business start up where companies trying to break into the IPO market can improve their financial position by the government signing an agreement to take reduced taxes gambling the stock shares will improve. Can come with a purchase buy back option more like a bond at the end of the agreed upon time period.

7) Microloan Investment credits - I recall talking to folks from rural Africa and they remarked the best loan size was about $100. In parts of Asia...same story. Why so small - too small to attract tons of government oversight and yet large enough to start a one person business. In Canada that might mean 10k? 20k? for an effective loan but is there a way that many small loans could be leveraged at a fixed loan rate under cutting the banks. Cap the amount so that you're not in conflict for larger expansion but enough to provide reliable low cost financing. A billion split at 10k is a 100,000 separate business investments.

These are a few of the options...there are more out there too if more people thought about it. It just can't be a single source investment, must be managed separate from the political appointee/government of the day and should always be 1) growing the fund size 2) diversifying into multiple sectors and 3) investing in Canada.