Great pics! I'm always curious about orders of dress on occasions like this so why is the one captain wearing a Sam Browne, plain shoulder boards and ribbons only? I know this is a version of Blues and have both sets of shoulder boards for my Dad's uniform but wondering why in particular he'd be the only one turned out like that.
Indirect Fires Modernization Project - C3/M777 Replacement
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FJAG
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Dress has never been my strong point and I've looked at the RCHA/RCA Standing orders on dress which aren't one hundred percent clear but . . . here goes.
The uniforms being worn in general by everyone are designated No 1C Ceremonial Patrol Dress.
With respect to the one person, I couldn't find a proper description for it in the text, but there are two images which might help. The pictures are for (and described as) an RCA CWO which shows two pictures - one as you see all the folks wearing and described as "No. 1C Ceremonial Patrol - On Parade" and the other without the ceremonial shoulder boards but with a black Sam Browne described as "No. 1C Ceremonial Patrol - Off Parade." There is no corresponding picture for an officer nor text that I can see but it certainly seems to match the situation in the 30 Fd photos.
Someone who is more into orders of dress etc might be able to help further.
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I like how this thread has devolved into dress and deportment discussion.
Peak Army.ca….
Peak Army.ca….
My bad although in my defence it is as you say peak army.ca…
markppcli
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Nothing says indirect modernization like ww2 era guns being shot buy people in forage caps.There's some life left in those old guns.
Good job, 30th Field
Someone who is more into orders of dress etc might be able to help further.
Orders of dress is a tertiary duty I've been lumped with. The patrols with shoulder boards and Sam Browne belt/cloth belt is called Patrols Undress 1D and in this case is worn by members attending the parade but not participating in it. Typically this is the person who is leading a prominent guest, news anchor, camera people, etc around. By the book, technically, if you were attending something like a change of command parade, this would be the order of dress you wore while sitting in those crappy plastic folding chairs. This uniform in this configuration can also be worn for social occasions, inspections, smaller parades/drill practice, etc.
Uniform stuff out of the way, I am wondering what the army plans to do when all these 105s hit the end of their life with no spare parts in the next 2-7 years. My colleagues and friends across the PRes are struggling with less and less time on the guns because they are out for repair so often, and waiting on parts so much. A lot of the guns are being cannibalized as well. I am not aware of any 105mm modern guns being produced.
FJAG
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Bait taken.
It's not an either or issue. You can have both.
I'm not the guy to defend dress issues. Hell, I think all parades should be done in fighting order with weapons. But I do see the need and usefulness for ceremonial. Hell, even the communists fire salutes with old guns and wear pretty uniforms (note in particular the forage caps and kneeling gun drill.)
Quite frankly the C3 makes a terrific saluting gun. The round is cheap and you can train any gunner who has trained on another gun how to operate a C3 for saluting purposes in a day or two. Add to that the fact that if limited to saluting purposes only, all the maintenance issues for the gun (such as optics and recoil systems) disappear. The gun is virtually indestructible and with very minor user maintenance could be used for saluting purposes for many decades to come.
Top that off with the fact that all we need are roughly forty-four to fifty - four guns per province with maybe a second set for Ontario where the provincial and federal legislatures are separated - and we already have more than that in inventory with no need to buy any more.
Gibbs' Fifth Rule - You don't waste good.
As just a civilian with an interest in things military since I saw my first Sentinel in the early 70s, I don't see the harm in doing both. I thought the CAF's participation in the events of Monday and Tuesday demonstrated an impressive ability to do ceremonial on what must have been pretty short notice, particularly in the case of the RCD and 3RCR, and the thousands of Canadians who saw them can't help but have been impressed (at least those that don't just object to seeing people with guns at any time). Are forage caps relevant to the day to day needs of the CAF? Nope, nor are pith helmets, horse hair plumes, lances, cartouche boxes, tubas and bagpipes. But they are no less part of our traditions than dragging a new Speaker to his chair in the House or dispatching Black Rod to summon MPs. It's all fluff that doesn't make a bit of difference to any of our daily lives. Personally though I think the occasional bit of ceremonial does us no harm and give full credit to the service personal who pulled it off. Now back to regularly scheduled programming re indirect fires modernization, or as I hear it's being called on another thread completely "IDF."Bait taken.
It's not an either or issue. You can have both.
I'm not the guy to defend dress issues. Hell, I think all parades should be done in fighting order with weapons. But I do see the need and usefulness for ceremonial. Hell, even the communists fire salutes with old guns and wear pretty uniforms (note in particular the forage caps and kneeling gun drill.)
Quite frankly the C3 makes a terrific saluting gun. The round is cheap and you can train any gunner who has trained on another gun how to operate a C3 for saluting purposes in a day or two. Add to that the fact that if limited to saluting purposes only, all the maintenance issues for the gun (such as optics and recoil systems) disappear. The gun is virtually indestructible and with very minor user maintenance could be used for saluting purposes for many decades to come.
Top that off with the fact that all we need are roughly forty-four to fifty - four guns per province with maybe a second set for Ontario where the provincial and federal legislatures are separated - and we already have more than that in inventory with no need to buy any more.
Gibbs' Fifth Rule - You don't waste good.
FJAG
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That's actually bang on. And at times those little, traditional things have a big impact.
I'll go back to my youth as a sixteen-year-old reserve gunner. As recruits and trainees we had to wear berets. When you finally completed your gun numbers course on the old C1 howitzer you were allowed and required to wear a forage cap with your battledress, were given a white lanyard to wear on your shoulder and given a "layers" trade badge to wear on the sleeve of your uniform. It was a right of passage which said "your one of us now." That meant the world to me then and is still something that I fondly recall.
I've never been big on unnecessary ceremonies - I think a CO's change of command should be done quietly in an office and not on parade - but I do value many traditions. There are some that we could cull but by and large, many are useful in quiet and subtle ways.
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That's actually bang on. And at times those little, traditional things have a big impact.
I'll go back to my youth as a sixteen-year-old reserve gunner. As recruits and trainees we had to wear berets. When you finally completed your gun numbers course on the old C1 howitzer you were allowed and required to wear a forage cap with your battledress, were given a white lanyard to wear on your shoulder and given a "layers" trade badge to wear on the sleeve of your uniform. It was a right of passage which said "your one of us now." That meant the world to me then and is still something that I fondly recall.
I've never been big on unnecessary ceremonies - I think a CO's change of command should be done quietly in an office and not on parade - but I do value many traditions. There are some that we could cull but by and large, many are useful in quiet and subtle ways.
But how to decide?
Quick! Form a committee!
Colin Parkinson
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I like to see the same people who are ready to rip all of our traditions do the same with the First Nations and their "fluff". Yes some should be dropped or minimized, but you don't want to lose your soul either.That's actually bang on. And at times those little, traditional things have a big impact.
I'll go back to my youth as a sixteen-year-old reserve gunner. As recruits and trainees we had to wear berets. When you finally completed your gun numbers course on the old C1 howitzer you were allowed and required to wear a forage cap with your battledress, were given a white lanyard to wear on your shoulder and given a "layers" trade badge to wear on the sleeve of your uniform. It was a right of passage which said "your one of us now." That meant the world to me then and is still something that I fondly recall.
I've never been big on unnecessary ceremonies - I think a CO's change of command should be done quietly in an office and not on parade - but I do value many traditions. There are some that we could cull but by and large, many are useful in quiet and subtle ways.
Rainbow1910
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Apologies for the low quality, but here's a look at the associated ammunition carrier and mortar platforms from the GDLS Canada booth at CANSEC 2025.
FJAG
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I think that I was out of the country for @suffolkowner's post but had seen the Swiss version before.
My only comment is that if we need to go wheeled I'd prefer the RCH on a LAV chassis than the other choices - but am unhappy about the time to get it from prototype to in-service product.
As to the AD version - that looks like a no-brainer knock off of the Stryker one so - okay.
As to the mortar carrier, the photo is too hard to see what's going on but that flappy thing on the rear has me worried there's some type of pop top roof involved.
As to the ammo carrier - WTF? I can think about a dozen bad things to say just looking at it but in short I'd rather buy three flatbed logistics trucks with armoured cabs and a HIAB crane for the price of one of these obscenities. Maybe a better schematic would help but I'm dubious.
Rainbow1910
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Judging by how it looks like the same model as the proposed RCH-155 companion vehicle, it’s a vehicle designed to keep pace with the artillery systems and reload them with an automated crane system relatively quickly.
Here is patent drawings for the German version.
Looks to be so, similar to other systems used abroad.
FJAG
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Yeah. I've seen the Boxer design which doesn't thrill me and I've stated my reasons a month or two ago upthread. I'd need to see a lot more in the way of a mock up that shows the manner of operation. Patent drawings are not manufacturing plans. They are used to describe the novel concepts and means over which intellectual property is to be claimed.
There are aspects of Patria NEMO that I don't like but essentially I think that a NEMO-like system is the way to go (but with a fallback on a weapon locker basis for dismounted operations - if necessary with a complete dismounted mortar tube, bipod, baseplate and sights strapped to the outside of the hull to be used when required.)
Colin Parkinson
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We cannot allow a chrome wheel gap for our towed artillery,Bait taken.
It's not an either or issue. You can have both.
I'm not the guy to defend dress issues. Hell, I think all parades should be done in fighting order with weapons. But I do see the need and usefulness for ceremonial. Hell, even the communists fire salutes with old guns and wear pretty uniforms (note in particular the forage caps and kneeling gun drill.)
Quite frankly the C3 makes a terrific saluting gun. The round is cheap and you can train any gunner who has trained on another gun how to operate a C3 for saluting purposes in a day or two. Add to that the fact that if limited to saluting purposes only, all the maintenance issues for the gun (such as optics and recoil systems) disappear. The gun is virtually indestructible and with very minor user maintenance could be used for saluting purposes for many decades to come.
Top that off with the fact that all we need are roughly forty-four to fifty - four guns per province with maybe a second set for Ontario where the provincial and federal legislatures are separated - and we already have more than that in inventory with no need to buy any more.
Gibbs' Fifth Rule - You don't waste good.