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  1. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    I agree somehow with YZT580, however that should not be an issue during peacetime (maybe >90% of the time?) and would extend either the patrol time or the boat's life. I wonder if towing the boats could also work. In such a case the solution might be a mix of tender, towing and...
  2. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    In the link below there is a 4 pages undated paper (2022?) from Vice-Admiral R. Davidson about Submarine procurement. Short but ticks many points. It brings up the concept of a Heavy Lift Ship for overseas deployments, which had been earlier raised in Starshell review (Aug. 2022)...
  3. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Regarding TKMS, fuel cells and batteries... https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2023/05/powering-the-future-tkms-submarine-battery-developments/
  4. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    https://gentleseas.blogspot.com/2022/08/naval-group-libs-possible-for-india.html Naval Group, TKMS, Navantia, all have agreements with SAFT
  5. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Sometimes journalists make mistakes when they don't have tech. background. The engines are diesel MTU 396 design. 3,500 KW electric motor .... ok 300 KW AIP .... ok (power of the fuel cell, reformer supposed to produce enough hydrogen for it) Bio-ethanol engines would not make sense because...
  6. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    There will be four S80, actually S-81 to S-84. The first one, being in the last trials this year, and the second, are to be delivered without AIP. It will be installed in their 1st long-term overhaul (after about 5-6 years). It is expected the other two will be delivered with it. This AIP uses...
  7. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Sorry, late to edit my previous post. For the Type 212 CD should say Methanol (not ethanol) reformer.
  8. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Probably, but that means risks and high costs on such development. I don't know what happened with Slowpoke-3 but it's somehow warning the fact that only one was built and it operated for just a couple of years. @suffolkowner was not going nuclear in his post. I know for sure that both...
  9. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Still, it's only 20KW while Swedish submarines have 2x 75 KW Stirling engines. German AIP is about 250KW (2x 125) IIRC.
  10. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    GE S9G estimated power: 210,000 kWt (thermal) Slowpoke-2: 20 kWt Does anyone really think that the Slowpoke-2 reactor would suffice for a SSN? https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/s9g.htm edited to add... And regarding fuels to produce hydrogen for fuel cells (by...
  11. J

    Adaptable Strike Frigate

    Is there available space & weight to increase the EXLS cells (for CAMM missiles) from 6 to 9?
  12. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Thanks to google translator can read this dutch article about S80. Seems like Navantia doing their job on PR. Anyway, it is quite detailed about the so called "BEST-AIP". Yet the first reformer has not yet been installed, but is about to be, on the third vessel which is under construction...
  13. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Actually the next Dutch Walrus-replacement is still open among three contenders: French Barracuda, Swedish A26 and German Type 212 variant or Type 216 (not sure which one).
  14. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    I agree... I disagree... still could be cheaper than a nuclear submarine. I'm not saying it's the best option, but it is an option to consider. Added: Non-orphane options would be, for instance, joining the Type 212CD or the next Dutch Walrus-replacement, if we discard the under-ice capability.
  15. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    A reasonable Arctic patrol of 5.000 nm / 30 days or 6.500 nm / 40 days could be achieved at 7 knots. For it some 500-600 kW would be required. In terms of AIP modules this could be 2 power modules of 250-300 kW plus a third one for emergency. In terms of energy there's no enough info. but guess...
  16. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Ok, fine, an AIP boat could also make an under-ice patrol. It is for the brains of the RCN to determine the requirements of speed and endurance. Grossly speaking if a SSK with one AIP module can dive at 4-6 knots for 2-3 weeks, it's mainly (but not only) a matter of adding more modules. And...
  17. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    The economic and manning sides of getting SSNs would be, along with the political will, the main constraints. Look to the Australian programme, the nuclear boats are expected to cost at about 6 billion CAD each (can't remember where I read the number, but probably in a ASPI-the strategist...
  18. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Well, that's all true, but here's the dilemma between Power (kW) and Energy (kWh). Batteries can provide a bulk of power at any moment (some MW), to propel the boat at max. speed. But their energy storage capacity is lower compared to the AIP. For instance, the S-80 submarine batteries are in...
  19. J

    TKMS Type 212CD (Victoria class replacement megathread)

    Can a new conventional submarine smooth Australia’s transition to a nuclear-powered fleet? | The Strategist Why not joining the Australians and purchase together? IMHO the submarine propulsion should have AIP powered by Ballard's fuell-cells and French DCNS diesel reformer (called FC2G) to...
  20. J

    Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

    Let me extract this paragraph about RAN's new Arafura class Patrol vessels. https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/how-to-bridge-the-capability-gap-in-australias-transition-to-nuclear-powered-submarines/ One path that the government should consider urgently is the possibility of ‘up-gunning’ the...
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