Let "The Journey" Begin

[The Bread Guy]

Spotted this on the public tendering page - also attached if link doesn't work:

... The Department of National Defence has a requirement to develop The Journey – a modern concept for personnel support which will make Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) personnel support more compassionate, dependable and comprehensive, while ensuring effectiveness, efficiency and affordability in a healthy and safe workplace.

The DND wishes to contract a senior leadership advisor to assist the team’s leadership in developing a Strategy and Action Plan. The senior leadership advisor will occupy a key post in the team and will be principally focused on providing internal advice to the team leadership on the execution of its mandate ...

Here's the list of companies being invited to send in a proposal:

... 3056058 Canada Inc.
A Hundred Answers Inc.
Altis Human Resources (Ottawa) Inc.
Auguste Solutions and Associates Inc.
Calian Ltd.
Ernst & Young LLP
Excel Human Resources Inc.
Hickling, Arthurs, Low Corporation
International Safety Research Inc.
Lannick Contract Solutions Inc.
Le Groupe Conseil Bronson Consulting Group
MaxSys Staffing & Consulting Inc.
Mindwire Systems Ltd.
Olav Consulting Corp
Stratos Inc ...

"Personnel support" - is that HR services, or is that broader support?

 

[beachdown]

I wonder how many companies on that list have subsidiary companies also listed i.e. masquerading as another company?

 

[Flavus101]

It is rather depressing that we have to contract outside personnel for this matter...

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Good post Pete.  I did 4 years on IR, Halifax - Kingston.  I feel your pain.  Its a good program and its very useful.  In my case I lived off base in the extreme west end of Kingston in a basement apartment.  Also there are those people out there who will make snide remarks about you being on IR or your spouses "inability to move".  Just shrug that off.

I know I may be one of the few, but I really wanted to live in Barracks and eat at the mess, but the BComd had a policy that was a no go for that.  Give me free rations and quarters and let me buy my own net connection and I would be a happy dude.

I've never understood this mentality in the Military, it's outdated.  Considering many other Industries move workers all over the planet with no expectation that their family moves with them.  A relative of mine owns an Oil & Gas Drilling Company in Alberta and has literally ran projects all over the world: Libya, Venezuela, SE Asia, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.  You name it he has lived and worked there.  His family has never once moved from Calgary where they reside.

Another Uncle of mine is a Mechanical Engineer who designs turbines for Power Plants.  He has lived all over the place as well, his wife and my cousins though?  Quispamsis NB is home and they never moved once.

Moving a family every 3-4 years is stupid IMO, and usually completely unnecessary; however, we refuse to change our ways.  It demonstrates to me, a lack of respect for our work force and that we view our soldiers, sailors and aviators as disposable.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I've never understood this mentality in the Military, it's outdated.  Considering many other Industries move workers all over the planet with no expectation that their family moves with them.  A relative of mine owns an Oil & Gas Drilling Company in Alberta and has literally ran projects all over the world: Libya, Venezuela, SE Asia, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Russia, etc.  You name it he has lived and worked there.  His family has never once moved from Calgary where they reside.

Another Uncle of mine is a Mechanical Engineer who designs turbines for Power Plants.  He has lived all over the place as well, his wife and my cousins though?  Quispamsis NB is home and they never moved once.

Moving a family every 3-4 years is stupid IMO, and usually completely unnecessary; however, we refuse to change our ways.  It demonstrates to me, a lack of respect for our work force and that we view our soldiers, sailors and aviators as disposable.

A very Snr member in my trade and I had a conversation over some smokes and coffees recently and he was explaining to me the "Journey Program" (I may have the name wrong).  It sounded like a complete revamp of our TOS and career paths.  With differing career and pay potential depending on your ability/willingness to take on different duites, like postings, deployments and positions in first line units. 

Couple this with the rumored dress changes coming and our CAF will very different when I leave than the one I joined in the late 90s.  It is certainly and interesting time to be in the machine. 

 

[Lumber]

A very Snr member in my trade and I had a conversation over some smokes and coffees recently and he was explaining to me the "Journey Program" (I may have the name wrong).  It sounded like a complete revamp of our TOS and career paths.  With differing career and pay potential depending on your ability/willingness to take on different duites, like postings, deployments and positions in first line units. 

Couple this with the rumored dress changes coming and our CAF will very different when I leave than the one I joined in the late 90s.  It is certainly and interesting time to be in the machine.

So, RegF vs Class-B service?

 

[Halifax Tar]

So, RegF vs Class-B service?

Something similar to that.  Kind of blurring the lines between Reg, Class B and Class C.  He also mentioned individual work schedules and hours.  You want to work 3 days a week because you have a young family ?  Ok.  You pay and career path will reflect that. And you can come and go from these differing scenarios with "ease". 

The way I understood it it sounded like your pay and career will pretty much depend on how much you are willing to do.  I don't have an issue with this method, but what do you do when no one wants to sail ?  Or deploy ?

Example, want to stay in Halifax and not sail, you can but you wont go beyond killick and your pay will be reduced. Want to earn more ?  Take the tasks and postings and put for the effort to earn it.

That's the way I understood it.  I am sure some senior people on here have heard of this program.  They can correct me if I am out in left field.

 

[McG]

A very Snr member in my trade and I had a conversation over some smokes and coffees recently and he was explaining to me the "Journey Program" ...

I have heard many rumours on this, including one that suggests some senior leaders are marketing the concept internally well ahead of getting government approval.
Anyway, this probably belongs in its own thread.

 

[armyvern]

... They can correct me if I am out in left field.

You're not in left field, at least not the outfield.  Many COAs being considered and nothing set in stone as of yet.

As for the post that started this thread - hope it's sorted.  Soonest. 

 

[TCM621]

I don't know how I feel about this. I am glad reservists get a pay bump and I'm not one of these guys who think all reservists are useless. However, I think the threat of postings, 24/7 adherence to the CSD, being forced on courses and deployments regardless of what is going on in your life is worth more than 9% (Res Cpl base pay of 152. 98 / Reg Cpl base pay 5014 or 168.13 per day equal ~91%). I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

I know a long term class B job is essentially doing the same job for less pay. However, if they want the same pay, CTs are a much better process then they used to be and maybe three years is way too long for a temporary position.

 

[mariomike]

I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

See also,

Why we pay Reservists what we do
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/1010.325
14 pages.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I don't know how I feel about this. I am glad reservists get a pay bump and I'm not one of these guys who think all reservists are useless. However, I think the threat of postings, 24/7 adherence to the CSD, being forced on courses and deployments regardless of what is going on in your life is worth more than 9% (Res Cpl base pay of 152. 98 / Reg Cpl base pay 5014 or 168.13 per day equal ~91%). I actually thought 85% was pretty fair and I have served both Reg and Res.

I know a long term class B job is essentially doing the same job for less pay. However, if they want the same pay, CTs are a much better process then they used to be and maybe three years is way too long for a temporary position.

I agree with you.  As a reservist on class B I thought it was bullshit that I was doing a full time job and only making 85%. It wasn't until I switched over that I realized how total the army's (CFs) control can be of a members life and as you mention the threat of postings, forced courses and tasks and other stuff.

For example reg force member returns from a 7.5 month tour. He gets post deployment leave for a month, goes back to work for 3 weeks then is told he will be going to Meaford shortly for 4 months to fill a position because the reservist going pulled his name out of that task (and RUMINT has it, did so in order to get a spot in CG in Ottawa instead).


I think one of the biggest benefits the reserves offer the reg force is their ability to plug and play supporting deployments. Beefing up sections especially.
It's also a big hindrance for the same reasons.

The volume of tasks reserves showing up injured or b-lining to the cdu is an issue too Imo.


Reserves are important and the reg force needs them (just look at Afghanistan). That said now that I've seen both sides I think 85% is fair.

 

[tomahawk6]

Reservists in the US are part time,but if they are on active duty they draw full pay and allowances just like any regular. Why not do the same ?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I hope this does away with the shady practice of giving reservists 89 day class B contracts so we don't have to give them as much benefits or whatever that was for.

 

[Remius]

I hope this does away with the shady practice of giving reservists 89 day class B contracts so we don't have to give them as much benefits or whatever that was for.

Not likely.  The CAF is addicted to class B.  class B contracts and such need a complete overhaul.

 

[TCM621]

Not likely.  The CAF is addicted to class B.  class B contracts and such need a complete overhaul.

Start with no class B over 6 months. If the job is continuous fill it with Reg force or a make it C class. Have a reservist sign a 3 year class C, treat them like Reg force for 3 years and send them back to their unit when they are done.

There are too many people who have 15+ years of class B on an 18 year career.

 

[PuckChaser]

This is good news for the reserves. 

Now how about working some retention benefits for the reg force ?

You won't get any. A lot of folks will just create themselves a Cl B job, release into that job and tolerate a 8% pay cut to not get screwed around by being posted every couple years risking losing any equity you have in a home and uprooting your family. I personally think its appalling that all the extra stuff expected of a Reg F member is now only worth a paltry 8% above a PRes member, and I speak as someone who spent a long time as a Cl A, B and C Reservist before I went Reg F.

 

[Remius]

I personally think its appalling that all the extra stuff expected of a Reg F member is now only worth a paltry 8% above a PRes member, and I speak as someone who spent a long time as a Cl A, B and C Reservist before I went Reg F.

That calculation always existed. They just gave the reserves the factors that applied to them that they should have had from the get go. 

Now if 8% isn’t an accurate or fair number for the unique factors of the reg force then that is a different issue.

 

[Monsoon]

That calculation always existed. They just gave the reserves the factors that applied to them that they should have had from the get go. 

Now if 8% isn’t an accurate or fair number for the unique factors of the reg force then that is a different issue.

Very, very well-put. For my part, I’ve always been skeptical of the mathematical magic that goes into the “military factor”: it’s pretty clear that the paths leading to the Director level in the public service and the military are extremely divergent (grad school and a few years’ experience, versus grad school and about 30 years experience), to the point that you have to wonder how we can be talking about comparable roles.

As far as the military factor for relocation as it applies to the RegF: I think we all know more than a few people who have spent 20+ years working in the same geographical location. If you want to reward people for relocating, develop a mechanism to do so (instead of “smearing” that reward across an entire workforce that includes many folks who have successfully put down roots in one location).

 

[PuckChaser]

As far as the military factor for relocation as it applies to the RegF: I think we all know more than a few people who have spent 20+ years working in the same geographical location. If you want to reward people for relocating, develop a mechanism to do so (instead of “smearing” that reward across an entire workforce that includes many folks who have successfully put down roots in one location).

Thats apparently being worked on, whether we'll see it in this lifetime is another thing. Don't get me wrong, good on the PRes for getting a pay raise. However, I think the fact that they're so close to what a RegF member makes, with a significant increase in "military factors" really shows how poorly compensated we are. The sad truth is, if the RegF gets a pay raise to compensate for the uniqueness of RegF service, then the career Cl B junkies will soon come calling for more money because "its not fair they're paid less".