A Deeply Fractured US

[Halifax Tar]

That is exactly what Trump and his minions want... it is why they keep building the pressure up

Your biases are showing.

 

[Quirky]

The woman who died is not a victim. Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place, and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns. She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job, all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well. If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

 

[Rifleman62]

Her wife was videoing the whole episode. You can hear her in the background. The officer who fired has been identified as the one who was dragged 100 yards during a stop 6 months ago. If you look at the video this officer also has his phone out pointing at the vehicle.

 

[brihard]

The woman who died is not a victim.

Yes she was

Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place,

Please tell us what you know about her involvement that the rest of us don’t. The most damning thing I’ve read is she may have been there as a ‘legal observer’. Observing and filming law enforcement is legal.

and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns.

It’s also stupid for multiple armed masked men in plainclothes and an unmarked vehicle to jump out at people, not identify themselves as police, and order them out of a car.

It’s also stupid, and poor tactics, for a police officer to move around a vehicle to the front.

Had her intent been to drive through police she would not have reversed to K turn- but then she would have plowed straight through the shooter, who at the time was walking from her 1 o’clock to her 12. As she reversed wheel left, her nose swung such that he was at about the 11:30. Had he kept walking as he had be he would have been clear. Everything I see is consistent with her trying to safely escape without getting hurt or hurting anyone else.

She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job,

Show your work please. Observing is not impeding.

all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well.

You’re right. A competent police officer would not have killed her.

If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

Observing law enforcement is legal. Her kids were in school. Her family and employment status is irrelevant to the lawfulness or not of shooting her in the face.

Thank frig you chose the career you did, and not the career I did. You’d be a massive liability on the road and probably a supervisory nightmare.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The woman who died is not a victim. Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place, and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns. She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job, all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well. If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

Standing up against tyranny is a bedrock of American culture, or at least posturing about standing up to it.

If she was there for the sole purpose of getting in ICE's way then sure, architect of her own demise.

At the same time more and more examples are surfacing ICE agents acting like paid goons deputized in a wild west movie. Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet? Unless...

 

[Halifax Tar]

Oldie but a goodie

 

[Kirkhill]

Standing up against tyranny is a bedrock of American culture, or at least posturing about standing up to it.

If she was there for the sole purpose of getting in ICE's way then sure, architect of her own demise.

At the same time more and more examples are surfacing ICE agents acting like paid goons deputized in a wild west movie. Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet? Unless...

Score one for the CRINKS. Anything that destabilizes us is a win for them.

 

[Quirky]

Please tell us what you know about her involvement that the rest of us don’t. The most damning thing I’ve read is she may have been there as a ‘legal observer’. Observing and filming law enforcement is legal.

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.

It’s also stupid for multiple armed masked men in plainclothes and an unmarked vehicle to jump out at people, not identify themselves as police, and order them out of a car.

This doesn't matter.

It’s also stupid, and poor tactics, for a police officer to move around a vehicle to the front.

Ok.

Had her intent been to drive through police she would not have reversed to K turn- but then she would have plowed straight through the shooter, who at the time was walking from her 1 o’clock to her 12. As she reversed wheel left, her nose swung such that he was at about the 11:30. Had he kept walking as he had be he would have been clear. Everything I see is consistent with her trying to safely escape without getting hurt or hurting anyone else.

She chose to be there in the first place, she decided to loaf around ICE agents.

Show your work please. Observing is not impeding.

Observing is a personal choice.

You’re right. A competent police officer would not have killed her.

I don't care about the result, that's irrelevant. She had nothing better to do and ended up in that situation under her own free will.

Observing law enforcement is legal. Her kids were in school. Her family and employment status is irrelevant to the lawfulness or not of shooting her in the face.

She was a loser and had no reason to be there. This was corroborated by the statement from her family. Being shot in the face was irrelevant, that was one out of many outcomes.

Thank frig you chose the career you did, and not the career I did. You’d be a massive liability on the road and probably a supervisory nightmare.

You always have to get a personal attack in whenever you disagree with someone. A sign of true intelligence. I'm done with you.

Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet?

There are enough useful idiots out there for the democrats to gaslight into some sort of rebellion against Trump. Their rage is fed by the media who have no problem putting gas on the fire. Where were they when Biden and Obama were using ICE to deport illegals?

 

[Kirkhill]

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.



This doesn't matter.



Ok.



She chose to be there in the first place, she decided to loaf around ICE agents.



Observing is a personal choice.



I don't care about the result, that's irrelevant. She had nothing better to do and ended up in that situation under her own free will.



She was a loser and had no reason to be there. This was corroborated by the statement from her family. Being shot in the face was irrelevant, that was one out of many outcomes.



You always have to get a personal attack in whenever you disagree with someone. A sign of true intelligence. I'm done with you.



There are enough useful idiots out there for the democrats to gaslight into some sort of rebellion against Trump. Their rage is fed by the media who have no problem putting gas on the fire. Where were they when Biden and Obama were using ICE to deport illegals?

There are days you live up to your name.

 

[brihard]

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.

Observing and recording police is not ‘harassing’ them. It’s the right of a person in a free society oblong as police are not obstructed from doing their jobs. I see no evidence these ones were. She literally tried to wave their vehicle around and there was ample room to do so.

Following police is not illegal.

None of these things, regardless, factor into the legal authority of a police officer to use deadly force.

This doesn't matter.

It matters a very great deal, and claiming it doesn’t just shows how utterly unqualified you are here. Establishing their identity as police and establishing that they were acting lawfully in the course of duties they are permitted to carry out is easential, like, utterly fucking essential in determining if those officers were giving lawful commands and if they were lawfully placed as it pertains to what they did next. They were attempting to detain her and the lawfulness of that detention will be very important. It would be the difference between avoiding criminal responsibility, and a murder cherge.

She chose to be there in the first place, she decided to loaf around ICE agents.

This was irrelevant to the individual officer’s decision to use deadly force, or the legality thereof.

Observing is a personal choice.

Yes. Like voting, or saying “fuck the police”, It’s actually a right. The exercising of that right is also irrelevant to the individual officer’s decision to use deadly force, or the legality thereof.

I don't care about the result, that's irrelevant. She had nothing better to do and ended up in that situation under her own free will.

The dead mother of three who was shot in the face by police is the result. That is not ‘irrelevant’. That is the entire point of this. Police are accountable for articulating the force we use and only doing so lawfully. When someone is killed because of police incompetence, accountability must follow. It will- civilly, at a minimum. Possibly criminally but I suspect the administration will prevent that happening.

She was a loser and had no reason to be there. This was corroborated by the statement from her family. Being shot in the face was irrelevant, that was one out of many outcomes.

Police shooting someone dead is never “irrelevant”, and will in most cases be the single most significant aspect of any situation. If you think otherwise I just don’t know what to say.

You always have to get a personal attack in whenever you disagree with someone. A sign of true intelligence. I'm done with you.

False. I very rarely say anything like, or the admins would have turfed me long ago. When I do so, it’s with good reason. You would be utterly temperamentally unsuitable for policing in our part of the world and I’m glad that’s not an option you pursued. If you choose not to engage with me because this is pointed out, that’s fine, but I will not be ignoring your posts if they need to be challenged . Up to you if you reply or not. Not the first time someone on this site has declared they’re ignoring me, won’t be the last.

 

[Jarnhamar]

There are enough useful idiots out there for the democrats to gaslight into some sort of rebellion against Trump. Their rage is fed by the media who have no problem putting gas on the fire. Where were they when Biden and Obama were using ICE to deport illegals?

Some of these ICE dudes* make me think of failed police cadets who become power tripping Commissioneres, then given assault rifles.

Where were these people when Biden and Obama were using ICE? I'd say Pre-Trump ICE were a lot different than post-Trump ICE. I get what you're saying thought; doubtless they're willing to ignore more when it's their team at bat.

Never the less the behavior by ICE is rapidly getting out of control (and I'm very much for kicking illegal residents out of countries).

The US is going to hit a breaking point and people will start responding to ICE et el with some serious violence. Trump will use that to justify more draconian measures.

*and it's looking like it's not just ice ref the video of posted oj one of these threads or the border agent pulling out his pistol and shoving it on the face of a protestors appearing to just stand there. Like is he going to execute the protestor or what?

 

[OldSolduer]

Some of these ICE dudes* make me think of failed police cadets who become power tripping Commissioneres, then given assault rifles.

Where were these people when Biden and Obama were using ICE? I'd say Pre-Trump ICE were a lot different than post-Trump ICE. I get what you're saying thought; doubtless they're willing to ignore more when it's their team at bat.

Never the less the behavior by ICE is rapidly getting out of control (and I'm very much for kicking illegal residents out of countries).

The US is going to hit a breaking point and people will start responding to ICE et el with some serious violence. Trump will use that to justify more draconian measures.

*and it's looking like it's not just ice ref the video of posted oj one of these threads or the border agent pulling out his pistol and shoving it on the face of a protestors appearing to just stand there. Like is he going to execute the protestor or what?

The USA is heading to civil war - God I hope not - but the fuse has been lit - its a slow one, but that could change with another shooting whether its righteous or not.

 

[Quirky]

Never the less the behavior by ICE is rapidly getting out of control (and I'm very much for kicking illegal residents out of countries).

If you're not an illegal immigrant to the US, you shouldn't have any interactions with ICE.....unless you're a mother of three who's looking for kicks in the middle of a work week.

The US is going to hit a breaking point and people will start responding to ICE et el with some serious violence.

It's going to happen with the left realizes the 2nd amendment applies to them too.

The USA is heading to civil war - God I hope not - but the fuse has been lit

Social media, and media in general, aren't helping.

 

[Remius]

The USA is heading to civil war - God I hope not - but the fuse has been lit - its a slow one, but that could change with another shooting whether its righteous or not.

That country will break apart before it ever annexes us. We’ll need a con plan for the inevitable refugees headed north if that ever happens.

 

[HavokFour]

If you're not an illegal immigrant to the US, you shouldn't have any interactions with ICE.....unless you're a mother of three who's looking for kicks in the middle of a work week.

My dude, American citizens no where near protests have been getting dragged into unmarked vehicles. Open your eyes.

 

[Quirky]

My dude, American citizens no where near protests have been getting dragged into unmarked vehicles. Open your eyes.

Wrongful arrests aren't new, as are deporting citizens by mistake.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Also feds not cooperating or coordinating with locals is astounding (to me). Could you imagine the RCMP running around shooting people in Ottawa and not telling the locals what they’re doing? Or am I out to lunch?

It is astounding. But is it feds refusing to cooperate with locals, or locals refusing to cooperate with feds? It's uncontroversial that some local governments have publicly refused to allow their police to cooperate. (In many cases they have subsequently backed away from those policies.) Is that the case here, or not?