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A Discussion on the Evolution of the Civil Service- Split from Gomery

Kirkhill said:
Ooops - I sense a split of a split..... ;D 

Must... resist urge... to rant... on myth of... paperless society ... >gasp<...


Ive seen that several IT systems/programs 'designed' to help track information are anything but, especially if supported by tech staff who refuse to make changes that would make the work easier for the user.  And it doesnt help that the bidding process favored either the lowest bidder or somebody's pal...

 
 
Although I've never been called a "hyper-efficient grey haired" lady, I do have extensive experience in the paper-bound Central Registries that Edward alludes to, and somewhat more limited experience with the "paperless" CR systems that others have mentioned.  A GOOD Registry is a priceless thing - the worth of which is only apparent when it fails.

Both paper-based and electron based CRs are only as good as the people working in them, and the compliance enforced upon users by the leadership involved.  When it comes to SECRET and above material, compliance was - in my experience - much more enforced.  A "relaxed" atmosphere with regard to proper recording of the passage of documents quickly leads to "misplaced" files.

Whether DFAIT's document control procedures qualify as "relaxed" or not is beyond my ken - but my past experiences with non-military, non-intelligence, non-police organs of governments of all stripes indicated to me that civilians in general take security MUCH less seriously than military/intelligence/police personnel.

 
Roy Harding said:
When it comes to SECRET and above material, compliance was - in my experience - much more enforced.  

With this material, compliance is pretty easy when the alternative is having your head on the chopping block...
 
Greymatters said:
With this material, compliance is pretty easy when the alternative is having your head on the chopping block...

In "our" world, you're right.  I'm not so sure that civilians, especially political ones, have the same respect for the security designation, nor am I sure that they suffer the same consequences unless the media gets hold of their sloppiness.
 
Roy Harding said:
In "our" world, you're right.  I'm not so sure that civilians, especially political ones, have the same respect for the security designation, nor am I sure that they suffer the same consequences unless the media gets hold of their sloppiness.

Unfortunately true...
 
Don't forget that it seems politicians, especially if they are appointed to cabinet (and maybe their entourage), get security clearances much more quickly than we mere peons. Perhaps corners are cut; I don't know.
 
Old Sweat said:
Don't forget that it seems politicians, especially if they are appointed to cabinet (and maybe their entourage), get security clearances much more quickly than we mere peons. Perhaps corners are cut; I don't know. 

Unfortunately, again, not an area I think we can discuss here...
 
Old Sweat said:
Don't forget that it seems politicians, especially if they are appointed to cabinet (and maybe their entourage), get security clearances much more quickly than we mere peons. Perhaps corners are cut; I don't know.

It's a conundrum: when the people of Canada elect one of their own to represent them in Parliament they give that person a vote of confidence that is very, very, very difficult for the security services to overturn. When the prime minister then selects one of those most trusted Canadians to serve in the cabinet he joins the people in saying "this fellow (or gal) can be trusted."

I think the PMO gives the PCO a list of potential new ministers almost as soon as the names are known and, as far as I know an appropriate security clearance - sometimes waaaaay beyond TS - is always in place just as soon as the oath is sworn. I wonder if, late in the process, the Clerk has ever gone to the PM and said, "Sir, you must not appoint M. Xxxxx to the cabinet; it would gravely endanger national security because ..."

That being said, several years ago I briefed more than one minister on quite sensitive matters. I worked very, very hard to avoid highly classified specifics - my military superiors were able to assure the minister involved that my presentation was supported by reams of solid but complex evidence which was available for review, if necessary. I was never asked for the details.
 
Greymatters said:
Must... resist urge... to rant... on myth of... paperless society ... >gasp<...


Ive seen that several IT systems/programs 'designed' to help track information are anything but, especially if supported by tech staff who refuse to make changes that would make the work easier for the user.  And it doesnt help that the bidding process favored either the lowest bidder or somebody's pal...

 

IT types firmly believe that removing the user and their obnoxious requirements from the mix will solve most of their problems, sounds almost like a religion. currently the RDMINS system being pushed is not accepted for classifiedor protected documents.
 
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