• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Announcement by the Minister of Foreign Affairs

vonGarvin

Army.ca Legend
Subscriber
Reaction score
1,308
Points
1,040
Found this on the CF website today:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2282
"The Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, Peter MacKay, will make an announcement regarding 12 Wing Shearwater."

Why would the Foreign Affairs minister make an annoucement there?  Or is he there at Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency?  Any Shearwateronians (?) out there?
 
Just heard a bit on CBC Radio that they're expecting to announce $ for new infrastructure for the Cyclones, and the transition from Sea Kings.

In this case, he'd be wearing his "Atlantic Minister" hat - senior Minister in that neck of the woods - not han his "Foreign Affairs" hat.
 
Shearwater Construction Projects
BG – 07.014 - May 11, 2007

Shearwater's history reflects the evolution of flying in Canada and indeed the growth of Canada's Air Force. 12 Wing Shearwater is one of the oldest military airfields in Canada having been home to Canada's air squadrons for the past 80 years, providing continuous service longer than any other Canadian military air base. 

Created as a US sea base in 1918, Shearwater subsequently became an airbase for the Royal Canadian Air Force, and the Royal Canadian Navy.  With the integration of the Armed Forces in 1968, Shearwater became a Canadian Forces Base.

Today, 12 Wing Shearwater employs 851 CF members and 39 civilian employees and continues in its original role of safeguarding the sovereignty of our coastal waters and helping to protect Canadian interests abroad.

TIMELINE

Prior to 1994, the Department of National Defence (DND) operated two bases within the Halifax
Dartmouth area: Canadian Forces Base (CFB) Halifax and 12 Wing Shearwater. While both bases supported numerous military units, the primary role of CFB Halifax (located mainly on the west side of the harbour) was to support the Atlantic naval fleet, and the primary role of 12 Wing Shearwater (located on the east side of the harbour) was to support fixed-wing aircraft and helicopter operations.

On February 22, 1994, as part of the Defence Expenditure Reductions, DND announced plans to reduce departmental costs by consolidating base infrastructure. The 12 Wing Shearwater site was transferred to CFB Halifax, and was reduced from a military airfield to  a military heliport. 

On September 1, 1995, Shearwater officially became a heliport. The surplus realty assets were originally transferred to a local development agency known as the Shearwater Development Corporation. After the corporation ceased operation in 1999, DND resumed control of the property.  In March 2002, the Department sold 373.12 hectares of surplus land at 12 Wing Shearwater to the Canada Lands Company (CLC).

In November of 2004, under the Maritime Helicopter Project (MHP), two contracts were awarded to Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation.  The first contract, worth $1.8 billion, covers the acquisition of 28 CH-148 Cyclones and ship modifications. The second contract, valued at $3.2 billion, is for a 20-year in-service support contract whereby DND is required to provide functional space within 12 Wing infrastructure for Sikorsky to set up various integrated support services.

While defining the operational requirements to convert the Shearwater airfield to a heliport, DND concluded that some of the surplus land previously sold to CLC would have to be reacquired.  In July 2006, in order to support the Shearwater Heliport Conversion Project, a market-value land exchange transaction was completed with CLC, in accordance with Government of Canada policy.  The
Department received three parcels of land totalling 154.83 hectares in exchange for one parcel of 34.35 hectares.

SHEARWATER CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS

The need to ensure safe CH-124 Sea King operations, upgrade Shearwater’s aging infrastructure and support the upcoming introduction of the CH-148 Cyclone fleet will necessitate a significant number of infrastructure improvements and additions to be implemented at 12 Wing Shearwater.

The Shearwater Heliport Conversion Project: The airfield infrastructure (landing area, taxiway, approach lighting and training areas) will be updated to support safe CH-124 Sea King operations and future CH-148 Cyclone operations.

In-Service Support Facilities:  In addition to the Shearwater Heliport Conversion Project, three in-service supportfacilities will be constructed. They are as follows:

423 Maritime Helicopter Squadron Facility: This will include the demolition of an existing hangar and the subsequent construction of a squadron operations facility to accommodate the first line maintenance and servicing functions of the 423 Maritime Helicopter Squadron (423 Squadron) and the 406 Maritime Operational Training Squadron (406 Squadron).
12 Air Maintenance Squadron Facility: 12 Air Maintenance Squadron currently operates out of four hangars that do not meet current and future operational demands. As a result, the construction of a first and second line maintenance facility to accommodate 12 Air Maintenance Squadron is required.
12 Wing Common Support Facility: This project will consist of the construction of a common support facility.  The facility will accommodate the MHP contractor’s warehouse operation and field office, 12 Wing Shearwater Operations staff, the Helicopter Operational Test and Evaluation Facility and aircrew flight planning and support functions. 
The table below summarizes the estimated project costs, inclusive of taxes.

Project
Estimated Total

423 Helicopter Squadron
$ 44.4 million

12 Air Maintenance Squadron facility
$ 49.3 million

12 Wing Common Support facility
$ 51.6 million

Shearwater Heliport Conversion facility
$ 24.7 million

Total:
$ 170 million


Several other projects are either ongoing or at various stages of development.  As part of the MHP contract, the Maritime Helicopter Training Centre is being constructed and will accommodate air and ground crew training for the new Cyclone fleet.  A project to provide the required water pressure to operate the fire suppression systems in the new hangars that will house the new maritime helicopter fleet is near completion.  In addition, future plans are being made with regard to upgrading a central heating plant and water and sewer lines, as well as telecommunications and information services.

The image below represents 12 Wing Shearwater.  The area encircled in orange details the land currently owned by DND.  The infrastructure superimposed in yellow represent the three in-service support facilities to be built.



The Department of National Defence and Defence Construction Canada developed a series of open, fair and transparent competitive processes in order to initiate the construction of both the heliport conversion and the new in-service support facilities.  Defence Construction Canada (DCC) is a Crown corporation, accountable to the federal government through Public Works and Government Services Canada. DCC was responsible for all aspects of the contracting process for these projects.
 
Captain Sensible said:
Found this on the CF website today:
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2282
"The Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, Peter MacKay, will make an announcement regarding 12 Wing Shearwater."

Why would the Foreign Affairs minister make an annoucement there?  Or is he there at Minister of the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency?  Any Shearwateronians (?) out there?

He is the Minister of both!!  ;)
 
Could we perhaps have done this in Greenwood instead.  There is plenty of space there, and some empty hangers.  Close a Wing and save the CF some $$, and pers.  While your at it close North Bay and Bagotville.....
 
Hmm,

I'd argue Shearwater is the better choice. Hangars in Greenwood need some updating too...just like they do in Trenton. Shearwater is still running, and we're already paying for the place anyway. Might as well bring it up to standard which is all they are doing. Same thing is happening all over these days.

From a family QOL perspective (ie things to do with your kids, schooling, recreational facilities etc) and employment opportunities for spouses, Shearwater beats Greenwood hands down.

Close Bagotville?? What no fast air for the right side of the country anymore?? Not going to happen.
 
I am stationed in North Bay, this place is a monument to wasted defence $$.  I am just thinking of the CF as a whole.  We need some $$, then we need to close down some facilities no longer required.  Shearwater or Greenwood, lets pick one or the other.  The Aurora fleet is going away soon, perhaps Greenwood should go. 

Bagotville is only 1 fighter squadron, 24 jets.  Close it, move the planes to Trenton or Greenwood/Shearwater.  Fewer Wings means more $$ for ops, and equip.  It means less of a strain on pers as you have fewer bases to cover.  Fewer MIRs, MP units, CE, PMQs etc....

 
While I'd agree with your reasoning, I'd argue that the only AF base in Quebec isn't going anywhere anytime soon, saved bucks or not.

Save bucks...lose votes. Not going to happen. At least not in the political climate that is this Country.
 
I agree, it will not close.  It is just another example of wasted defence dollars, just like here in North Bay.  I was in Halifax on course back in Feb/Mar.  I stood there in Stad and watched the bar across the road burn down.

Shearwater definatly needs upgrading and I hope they get it.  I don't want to see any base close, howver if the gov't does not give the CF more $$, what options do we have.

Anyhow, midnight shift is over, got to run, have a great day...... :) :)
 
peaches said:
Shearwater definatly needs upgrading and I hope they get it.  I don't want to see any base close, howver if the gov't does not give the CF more $$, what options do we have.

I wouldn't like to see any bases closing, but I may be considered biased of course.  ;)

Tell you what. If the government doesn't give the CF more $$, we still won't be closing down any bases unless the government allows us to. Base closures are a very political process.

After all, especially with minority governments, that Base is sitting in someones riding. They are not going to rock any boats that could even remotely end up costing their party an election victory.

 
On the matter of Shearwater, one would have to do more research into the length of the runways, the encroachment of the city on the airfield, the bylaws of the city in regards to hours of operation of the airfield, the cost of improving and maintaining infrastructure, the abilities of the base to expand to provide future services and accept the wide range of aircraft that would land there, the airspace and its availability above the city, etc.  Whose requirements do they support the most often, the Navy or the Air Force? 

Bagotville vs Greenwood vs Shearwater considerations would also include response times for interceptors to Regions in the Arctic and in the North Atlantic, ranging from, say, 35 North Latitude to the Arctic Pole.

Political vs Dollar factors must also be weighed. 

In the end, perhaps some brilliant soul would suggest that Argentia would make a viable solution to close all three.


[Edit:  Yes.  I know that most of that land has now been turned over to the local governments.]
 
Shearwater vs. Greenwood is a rather moot discussion at this point.  The land that the long runway (16/34) sits on is now in the possession of Canada Lands Corporation, and it isn't coming back.  Alpha taxiway will become the new 16/34 somewhere down the road, but it'll be much shorter than the original and I doubt you'll ever see large fixed wing aircraft at Shearwater again.

Besides, Shearwater exists solely for the purpose of the Maritime Helicopter community.  Marlant would never allow the MH assets to be moved down the road to Greenwood, as it would present far too many logistical problems.  The Navy wants the air assets close by.  Even a simple situation such as a grounded aircraft that is sitting on a ship's flight deck would become a major problem if it had to be returned to Greenwood.  It could be craned off just about anywhere, but there are umpteen obstructions to a helicopter on a flatbed trailer between Halifax and Greenwood that would be a transportation nightmare.  With MH at Shearwater, it's a simple matter of craning it off, and dragging it across the road.
 
True enough to the arguments, however I am just looking at it from a what's best for the CF as a whole point of view.  The more bases open, the ore support facilities you need, the more you stretchout your resources.

If North Bay was to close and move to Winnipeg as it should have thatt means 1 less Wing, one less MIR, MP units, CE section etc....  Pick Shearwater on Greenwood, another Wing gone, more pers and assets freed up, not to mention the $$ savings.  Bagotville is now only one squadron.  Close it, move 425 squadron to Trenton or Greenwood if we want to free up people and $$ for other things.  Not going to happen I know, the political monster. 

The F18 fleet is too small for our needs anyway.  Ideally we should have three operational and 1 training squadron minimum.  IMHO there should be an F18 squadron assigned to support each brigade, have a squadron out west hat supports NORAD and 1CMBG, another squadron in Ontario to provide NORAD for central Canada and support 2CMBG and a third squadron in Bagotville or Greenwood to conduct NORAD ops and support 5CMBG and a training squadron.  24 jets per squadron is 96 fighters, plus spares about 110.  Doable!!!!

But I am off topic.  I am glad Shearwater is getting the $$, I would like to see the CF get bigger not smaller, we have too many bases as it is now..........
 
No hate on at all, I am stationed there, it is a really nice spot, I like it.  I wish it would get bigger.  The question is, should we have spent millions of dollars to keep this place open, or moved it to Winnipeg and save some $$, and the expense of a Wing for the entire CF.....
 
Understood, that running a base no matter the size will cost a large amount of money, But what about the costs of relocating a base and everything else associated in doing so.

I too would love to see the base there grow again instead of continually diminishing. I remember growing up there and hearing/watching members of 414 Sqn flying around. It was great, and then the Sqn was moved. It just wasn't the same.

Chilly
 
The cost to close the base would be high I am sure but it would be a 1 time cost.  The college in town has expressed an interest in taking over the base.  With North Bay closed, the MIR would shut down, the docs & medics could be relocated to other units that need them, CE would close, the MPs.  You would free up bodies to fill other units of the CF. 

Again, I really like it here, it is a nice area and I hope it does not close.  Shearwater is in an awesome location and serves a purpose I understand fully, but I am just asking questions.  Are there ways we can better use the money we have?????

 
peaches said:
True enough to the arguments, however I am just looking at it from a what's best for the CF as a whole point of view.  The more bases open, the ore support facilities you need, the more you stretchout your resources.

If North Bay was to close and move to Winnipeg as it should have thatt means 1 less Wing, one less MIR, MP units, CE section etc....  Pick Shearwater on Greenwood, another Wing gone, more pers and assets freed up, not to mention the $$ savings.  Bagotville is now only one squadron.  Close it, move 425 squadron to Trenton or Greenwood if we want to free up people and $$ for other things.  Not going to happen I know, the political monster. 

The F18 fleet is too small for our needs anyway.  Ideally we should have three operational and 1 training squadron minimum.  IMHO there should be an F18 squadron assigned to support each brigade, have a squadron out west hat supports NORAD and 1CMBG, another squadron in Ontario to provide NORAD for central Canada and support 2CMBG and a third squadron in Bagotville or Greenwood to conduct NORAD ops and support 5CMBG and a training squadron.  24 jets per squadron is 96 fighters, plus spares about 110.  Doable!!!!

But I am off topic.  I am glad Shearwater is getting the $$, I would like to see the CF get bigger not smaller, we have too many bases as it is now..........

The flaw with all you logic is that it never works the way you think it will.  Remember Baden-Soellingen and Lahr?  What happened to that Air Wing?  What happened to that Brigade?  What happened to all those Support Troops?  Seems they all disappeared.  No extra MPs to spread around.  No extra pilots and fighters.  No extra Brigade or equipment to spread around.  Seems we are now in the business of doing more with less.  Sound familiar?

I really hate it when the Government spends millions on a Base and its infrastructure, then turns around and sells it to a municipality for $1.00.  How many Bases and installations have we seen this happen to?  How often have we seen this done in other cases, such as the HMCS Bonnaventure?  The CF will need facilities in the future, and land is not cheap.  The Government pays top dollar for land, and turns around and gives it away.  How many Bases like Cornwallis, St Margarets, Calgary, etc. have sold off their PMQs at rock bottom prices to the private sector?

Remember all those Refugees we brought over from the Baltic.....CFB Petawawa was suppose to house a vast majority of them.  Unfortunately, it couldn't house any as it had torn down over 98 buildings, including several large barracks blocks, the previous year.  It seems that there is no long term planning, just short term plans to save a buck. 
 
peaches said:
True enough to the arguments, however I am just looking at it from a what's best for the CF as a whole point of view.  The more bases open, the ore support facilities you need, the more you stretchout your resources.

If North Bay was to close and move to Winnipeg as it should have thatt means 1 less Wing, one less MIR, MP units, CE section etc....  Pick Shearwater on Greenwood, another Wing gone, more pers and assets freed up, not to mention the $$ savings.  Bagotville is now only one squadron.  Close it, move 425 squadron to Trenton or Greenwood if we want to free up people and $$ for other things.  Not going to happen I know, the political monster. 

The F18 fleet is too small for our needs anyway.  Ideally we should have three operational and 1 training squadron minimum.  IMHO there should be an F18 squadron assigned to support each brigade, have a squadron out west hat supports NORAD and 1CMBG, another squadron in Ontario to provide NORAD for central Canada and support 2CMBG and a third squadron in Bagotville or Greenwood to conduct NORAD ops and support 5CMBG and a training squadron.  24 jets per squadron is 96 fighters, plus spares about 110.  Doable!!!!

But I am off topic.  I am glad Shearwater is getting the $$, I would like to see the CF get bigger not smaller, we have too many bases as it is now..........

Cost/benefit analysis was done on moving Sea King ops to Greenwood, turns out that a Sea King cannot be road moved from the Halifax Dockyard to Greenwood in the event that it goes unserviceable or the weather is unsuitable and it is craned off the ship. Greenwood doesn't have a port, so it can't be craned off there either. It's just way easier to have us next to our customer, much like TacHel Sqns are lodger units on the army bases. There were a million other reasons that we should be left in Shearwater, hence why we're staying here.

Thanks for the bean counter type input, however, like most things that come from bean counters, the operational impact is not that well thought out.
 
Back
Top