C3 Howitzer Replacement

[Spencer100]

Hatchet
6 lbs
12 inches
2 m CEP (stationary and mobile targets)
Lethality 80% of a 500 lb bomb

US military evaluates new miniature strike munition for drone

Defense giant Northrop Grumman Corp. has announced that its Hatchet miniature strike munition underwent multiple live fire exercises. According to a press release from NG, Hatchet munition recently participated in several Department of Defense tests where a smart mini bomb was employed for the...

defence-blog.com

Hatchet is designed to be used with UAS systems by Forward Observers or as submunitions in missiles or from any aircraft.


The military-industrial complex solution to the Ukrainian innovation

You have to wonder about the effect of a swarm of those as submunitions delivered by a troop of HIMARS.

4 vehicles
24 missiles
100 or more submunitions
2m CEP








The trials Group 3 UAS.

AeroVironment Jump 20 UAS
185 km 95 kg with 30 lb (14 kg) payload
View attachment 76172

JUMP 20 Group 3 Medium UAS | Military Battlefield Drone | AeroVironment, Inc.

AeroVironment's JUMP 20 is runway independent and the first fixed wing UAS with vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) capability. Ideal for multi-mission operations, with 14 hours of endurance and an operational range of 185 km (115 mi). Featuring flexible payload options and industry leading...

www.avinc.com

Anyone else feel that the counter to these types of things will be an AI control mini CIWS.

 

[Kirkhill]

Anyone else feel that the counter to these types of things will be an AI control mini CIWS.

Yup. And woe betide those that don't have the threat and the counter. As for the section MInitat..... a bit of an upgrade from the Bren Gun and the FNC2s.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Lethality 80% of a 500 lb bomb

Also teleports.

 

[KevinB]

A tad beyond the Artillery aspect but.

General Atomics’ air-launched ‘Eaglet’ gets its wings

Gray Eagle manufacturer General Atomics in conjunction with the U.S. Army launched its Eaglet Air-Launched Effects from a Gray Eagle for the first time.

www.defensenews.com

 

[FJAG]

Hatchet
6 lbs
12 inches
2 m CEP (stationary and mobile targets)
Lethality 80% of a 500 lb bomb

Not that I want to be a sceptic but the artillery taught me math. I'm having troubles figuring out how a 6 pound warhead has 80% of the lethality of a 500 lb bomb with 193 lbs of TNT and 307 lbs of steel casing. Is it a little nuke?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Not that I want to be a sceptic but the artillery taught me math. I'm having troubles figuring out how a 6 pound warhead has 80% of the lethality of a 500 lb bomb with 193 lbs of TNT and 307 lbs of steel casing. Is it a little nuke?

It identifies as a 155mm shell, so that will account for the extra boom.

 

[FJAG]

It identifies as a 155mm shell, so that will account for the extra boom.

It could identify as a 203mm and still not make it. - except the M422A1/W33 nuke.

 

[Kirkhill]

For the record

It wuzn't me.

But improved fragmentation warhead technology, also known as “alternative warheads,” which the U.S. military has been working on as a substitute for cluster munitions, will reportedly give Hatchet, or at least certain variants, enhanced wide-area effects against more conventional, unarmored targets in the open, as well. It will only take six of them to saturate an area the size of a football field with a hail of shrapnel, according to the manufacturer. Whatever the exact target set, a single MQ-1C carrying four dispensers for a total of 48 Hatchets would be able to quickly engage multiple targets across a broad area.

These Pods Could Let Drones Carry Throngs of Small Smart Bombs And It's Just The Start

Similar dispensers could allow an individual aircraft to carry hundreds and maybe even thousands of the weapons at once.

www.thedrive.com

I guess it depends on how you define lethality .... in this case it seems to mean more bits and pieces rather than a bigger bang.

Orbital ATK Gears Up for Launch of 'Hatchet' Smart Munition

A small, GPS- and laser-guided precision glide weapon could make its way to the battlefield in a few years.

www.military.com

 

[Kirkhill]

I was reminded of this South African 105mm vs the 155mm shell.

 

[KevinB]

View attachment 76180

I was reminded of this South African 105mm vs the 155mm shell.

It’s a ‘jacketed’ canister round.
Greater lethality for airburst on troops in open, but will do Jack and Shit as a PD or Delay shell, or against armored vehicles (unless your looking to sandblast it).

 

[markppcli]

Not that I want to be a sceptic but the artillery taught me math. I'm having troubles figuring out how a 6 pound warhead has 80% of the lethality of a 500 lb bomb with 193 lbs of TNT and 307 lbs of steel casing. Is it a little nuke?

The video, which I’m sure was produced by the manufacturer with no bias at all, states 80 % lethality vs certain target types and doesn’t go into anymore detail than that. Not target type and not type of bomb. So maybe it has 80 percent of the lethality against troops in the open as a GBU 38v5, which is to say jack shit.

 

[KevinB]

A lot of crap is being marketed currently trying to latch on to UKR conflict money - much like the early days of GWOT.

WRT the Hatchet, to me the 2M CEP is way too big for such a small payload. If it was .5M, it would be neat to drop into the open hatch on Russian tanks. 2M doesn’t even guarantee landing in a trench.

 

[Kirkhill]

A big question is - How much?

If a Buck and a Half for a 2m CEP then great.

If 20K not so much.

And judging from the reports coming out of Ukraine recently (typically 2 tanks and 850 soldiers) the ability to cheaply eliminate soldiers in the open is not to be discounted. If nothing else it encourages them to stay inside their ever diminishing, and ever aging, vehicles. Making them vulnerable to the Stugnas, Javelins and Excaliburs.

They are replacements for the cluster bomb submunitions.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just a thought

Why izzit that people who spend so much time extolling the virtues of the Combined Arms approach are so quick to see new solutions as attempts at providing magic bullets?

I tend to see any new technology as an additional tool for the kit. An additional layer on the onion. Something that can enhance a Combined Arms approach.

 

[GR66]

Just a thought

Why izzit that people who spend so much time extolling the virtues of the Combined Arms approach are so quick to see new solutions as attempts at providing magic bullets?

I tend to see any new technology as an additional tool for the kit. An additional layer on the onion. Something that can enhance a Combined Arms approach.

I don't think it's so much that new solutions are being discounted but rather that they are sometimes seen as being "niche" additional capabilities that go beyond a more basic capability. For the CAF though we don't have those basic capabilities to build on so they are seen as a very low priority in comparison.

A mini precision strike cluster munition launched from a UAV might be a cool and useful tool, but when you don't have the UAVs to launch them from never mind more basic systems like SPGs, Rocket Systems, GBAD, ATGMs, etc., etc., etc., then it seems more like a distraction from the primary aim of making the Army an effective fighting force than something that should be seriously considered at this time.

 

[ArmyRick]

the 120mm system

Half an AMOS = NEMO @ 1900 kg - LAV mountable and container mountable - mobile and fixed.

8 for every LAV Battalion and Cavalry Regiment but arty trades. Just like MSHORAD.

81s for the companies.
Back to

AMOS and NEMO

And the Swedes went with a simplified version of AMOS, but still twin barrelled, called Mjolner. They have 8 Mjolners backing 2 small Leo Coys of 11 tanks and 2 CV90 infantry coys. Effectively as small Canadian Battle Group. They also have 4 40mm AD vehicles for each Battle Group.

 

[KevinB]

Just a thought

Why izzit that people who spend so much time extolling the virtues of the Combined Arms approach are so quick to see new solutions as attempts at providing magic bullets?

I tend to believe that one should validate new concepts. For this, I don’t see a purpose for it than can’t be easier accomplished better by a 60, 81, or 120mm Mortar, and 105 or 155mm Arty, or a more appropriate UAS dropped/launched system.

I tend to see any new technology as an additional tool for the kit. An additional layer on the onion. Something that can enhance a Combined Arms approach.

But simply adding a pile of junk doesn’t enable and detracts from capabilities.

 

[ArmyRick]

Oops on the above post and I can't seem to edit it. Mods, delete it?

Would 10-15 LBS of ultra precision HE warhead be more effective than 50-100 LBS HE warhead "nearby"? ARty gurus?

 

[markppcli]

A big question is - How much?

If a Buck and a Half for a 2m CEP then great.

If 20K not so much.

And judging from the reports coming out of Ukraine recently (typically 2 tanks and 850 soldiers) the ability to cheaply eliminate soldiers in the open is not to be discounted. If nothing else it encourages them to stay inside their ever diminishing, and ever aging, vehicles. Making them vulnerable to the Stugnas, Javelins and Excaliburs.

They are replacements for the cluster bomb submunitions.

Yeah but surely I could just hit that with mortars for much cheaper ? Do I need precision loitering munitions for an area target ?

 

[KevinB]

At the risk of trying to get back to the origins of the thread.

What really needs to happen is a restructure of the RCA.
Part of that needs to wait for determination of what the SSE replacement is.

I’d suggest 2x18 M109A7 Reg’ts, and at least 12 spares, and 6 for training.
1 for 1 RCHA and the supporting PRes units. Given the fact it’s tracked and large i don’t see local armory storage being viable. So Shilo, Wx or Suffield as options for Battery/Troop equipment.
2nd for 5 GangaBanga in Valcatraz, and I’m unsure of other locations for Res Troops that could work.

6 for W Bty in Gagetown (if it’s still a thing?)

That should take care of at least 6 PRes Arty units.

Moving the M777’s to Pet for a 18 gun Reg’t with 2RCHA
Using 30 RCA and the other Ont Arty units (7Tor, 49, 56 and 11th Field still around?) to fill in bodies as needed.

I’m not sure what that leaves for ADA rolls, or support for a GS Reg’t