Canadian Forces service members living in cars, unable to afford groceries

[Fishbone Jones]

Do they not have single quarters anymore?

Canadian Forces service members living in cars, unable to afford groceries

A few active Canadian Armed Forces service members are living out of their cars while stationed in Canada due to the high cost of living.

thecountersignal.com

 

[brihard]

Do they not have single quarters anymore?

Canadian Forces service members living in cars, unable to afford groceries

A few active Canadian Armed Forces service members are living out of their cars while stationed in Canada due to the high cost of living.

thecountersignal.com

I’d be curious to know the circumstances there- but it’s Debbie Lowther saying it in parliamentary committee. Debbie’s good shit and a straight shooter; she runs Veterans Emergency Transition Services. I doubt anyone in Canada has a better finger on the pulse of homeless vets. In her testimony (ACVA, October 31st), she says they’ve seen three cases in the past year. If she says it, I believe it.

While my best guess would be that there are likely additional financial factors at play in these individual cases, nonetheless I’d see a soldier living out of their car as a major, major problem from a readiness and, frankly, security standpoint. I hope a deep dive is getting done on any such cases.

The ACVA testimony transcript is here: https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/ACVA/meeting-68/evidence

 

[OldSolduer]

Some of the issue may be (my opinion and feelings only) is that we are a very proud lot - and sometimes that gets in the way of reaching out and saying to the CoC "hey I need a hand here".

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Some of the issue may be (my opinion and feelings only) is that we are a very proud lot - and sometimes that gets in the way of reaching out and saying to the CoC "hey I need a hand here".

Ah yes, but those conversations (usually) lead to a nice DAOD 5019-8 Private Debts remedial measure, potential loss of security clearance, and a bunch of other nasty career implications that, frankly, make the situation worse.

Especially when the Private Debts incurred are due to the CoC posting/retaining someone in financial distress to a high CoL area with little to no support:

-There are almost no Single Quarters anymore at most bases that aren't student/transient, and if there are, there aren't nearly enough of them.

-The Pri 1 wait list for PMQs in Kingston is 81 pers long. They have 13 potential vacancies, and are only renovating 3 this year. They are not rebuilding the 200 or so units torn down in the 2010s on the Vimy side, because money.

-CFHD does very little. Especially in the housing market as it is.

So given the options are a "go to SISIP, sign your RW, and do better next time" conversation or suffering through car living.... guess which one sees a better outcome in Cpl Bloggins' mind....

 

[Fabius]

Some of the issue may be (my opinion and feelings only) is that we are a very proud lot - and sometimes that gets in the way of reaching out and saying to the CoC "hey I need a hand here".

Not just the CoC, even reaching out to one’s peers and asking to join as a room mate etc.

 

[markppcli]

Do they not have single quarters anymore?

Canadian Forces service members living in cars, unable to afford groceries

A few active Canadian Armed Forces service members are living out of their cars while stationed in Canada due to the high cost of living.

thecountersignal.com

Honestly in a lot of places not really. Esquimalt, Halifax, and apparently Kingston. The forgotten side of low infrastructure budgets is that operational infrastructure is prioritized and housing is not, since it’s not incentivized anyways.

So yeah, for a lot of Pte’s or S3s, it’s hit OFP, get out of the shacks in 3 months. Hope you can afford it.

 

[mariomike]

Reminds me of a story I read years ago.

After Cold Lake soldier caught busking to make ends meet, viability of military pay in booming &amp#039;little Fort McMurray&amp#039; called into question

'I do that because we don’t have any money to pay our rent basically'

nationalpost.com

CALGARY — Last week, 25-year-old Cpl. Darenn T. set up a folding blue lawn chair on a snow-packed sidewalk in front of a Cold Lake, Alta., big box store, picked up a guitar and began to busk.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Ah yes, but those conversations (usually) lead to a nice DAOD 5019-8 Private Debts remedial measure, potential loss of security clearance, and a bunch of other nasty career implications that, frankly, make the situation worse.

Especially when the Private Debts incurred are due to the CoC posting/retaining someone in financial distress to a high CoL area with little to no support:

-There are almost no Single Quarters anymore at most bases that aren't student/transient, and if there are, there aren't nearly enough of them.

-The Pri 1 wait list for PMQs in Kingston is 81 pers long. They have 13 potential vacancies, and are only renovating 3 this year. They are not rebuilding the 200 or so units torn down in the 2010s on the Vimy side, because money.

-CFHD does very little. Especially in the housing market as it is.

So given the options are a "go to SISIP, sign your RW, and do better next time" conversation or suffering through car living.... guess which one sees a better outcome in Cpl Bloggins' mind....

If like to know what CFHA makes. I feel like it must be a lot as they are charging an arm and Legg for buildings that were built when Jesus was a cowboy....

If like to see any profits required to be reinvested back into their properties.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

If like to know what CFHA makes. I feel like it must be a lot as they are charging an arm and Legg for buildings that were built when Jesus was a cowboy....

If like to see any profits required to be reinvested back into their properties.

It's a shell game, frankly.

Step 1. Money comes in,
Step 2. "invest in maintaining our property holdings across Canada"
Step 3. .....
Step 4. "Not for" Profit

When we were living in the Qs, we were paying $1000 a month. That's $12K a year and we were there for 5 years. They sure as hell didn't reinvest $60K into the property I was renting, as it's currently sinking into its foundation and is still infested with rats. They "renovated" the property and are currently charging one of my former troops $1750 a month because "Market Rate"

 

[Ignatius]

DND seriously needs to build more barracks or single quarters. It is much needed.

 

[Booter]

When is the last time a new large housing project was completed- like barracks? If you sign on drawings today it takes 6 years to complete minor builds on average with the current timelines in government.

I imagine anything you ask for today you’ll be a decade out from moving furniture into it

 

[rmc_wannabe]

When is the last time a new large housing project was completed- like barracks? If you sign on drawings today it takes 6 years to complete minor builds on average with the current timelines in government.

I imagine anything you ask for today you’ll be a decade out from moving furniture into it

That is, in most cases, us getting in our own way.

From the time they tore down the Vimy Side PMQs in Kingston to today, Homestead built 4 multi-storey, multi-room apartment buildings just north of the base and have had tenants in them for approx 10 years. Why? They saw a need, filled a need, and make a killing off of the lack of Base Housing being supplied.

They didn't think about Environmental rating, +GBA, Indigenous, or any other TB/ISEC considerations; they built it, and people came to live there.

 

[PMedMoe]

Another reason there's less single quarters and PMQs is that when the housing/rental market was good, people moved out. Now it's not good, and people want back in.

Did anyone expect DND or CFHA to maintain empty buildings just in case they were needed at some point?

 

[Furniture]

Another reason there's less single quarters and PMQs is that when the housing/rental market was good, people moved out. Now it's not good, and people want back in.

Did anyone expect DND or CFHA to maintain empty buildings just in case they were needed at some point?

Yes, that's called planning ahead. There was never a guarantee that the housing market would remain favorable forever.

Also, how much of the vacancy was caused by old buildings with sub optimal living conditions? Living two to a room with a bathroom at the end of the hall isn't really what most people prefer.

Housing is a problem pretty much everywhere now, but has been a problem in many locations for a long time. The CAF did nothing about it then, and continues the proud tradition of doing nothing about it now.

 

[Quirky]

Did anyone expect DND or CFHA to maintain empty buildings just in case they were needed at some point?

You're right, if a base has a consistent 20-30% vacancy rate in the Qs, they should just demolish them. Let the good times roll...

Housing is a problem pretty much everywhere now, but has been a problem in many locations for a long time. The CAF did nothing about it then, and continues the proud tradition of doing nothing about it now.

Considering this is a CRISIS™ nation wide, I don't see too much sympathy from the public on this.

 

[Furniture]

Considering this is a CRISIS™ nation wide, I don't see too much sympathy from the public on this.

True, but maybe some of the very well paid people at the top of DND/CAF will clue in that we can't retain people where they can't afford to live, and perhaps reasonable housing would be a way to attract recruits...

Tired of living in your parent's basement? Join the CAF and get a room to yourself, good pay, and a chance to learn useful skills!

 

[KevinB]

Another reason there's less single quarters and PMQs is that when the housing/rental market was good, people moved out. Now it's not good, and people want back in.

Did anyone expect DND or CFHA to maintain empty buildings just in case they were needed at some point?

Let’s be honest, a lot of reasons troops move out is due to the absolutely shit state of quarters, and the fact that the CFHA absolutely sucks ass as a landlord.

Years ago in Edmonton, I was moving out of my Griebach PMQ, I had some stuff out, and then we got deployed to the Kelowna fires. CFHA in their infinite wisdom decided that since I had ceased paying for the PMQ, that they just threw the rest of my stuff out (including some bone china from my grandmother) and also billed me for cleaning and another 2 weeks of rent - and contacted my CoC when I tried to dispute their actions.

Maybe if CFHA acted like a successful entity, both considering the nature of their position as landlord to CAF personnel in terms of deployment and upkeeping the facilities to a seasonable standard, that there wouldn’t be a rush to GTFO.

 

[lenaitch]

Which possibly speaks against any thought of moving bases closer to urban areas to aid recruiting. If the rents are below local market value, CRA will probably hit it as a taxable benefit.

 

[Fabius]

What is market value though?

My 2 bedroom PMQ once upon a time came with no appliances, no garage, no fence and a basement that leaked each spring.

A 2 bedroom town home that I rented immediately after that PMQ had a garage, appliances, a fenced yard space (tiny yes but fenced) and a basement that did not leak.

Both were very very close in monthly rent.

 

[brihard]

Which possibly speaks against any thought of moving bases closer to urban areas to aid recruiting. If the rents are below local market value, CRA will probably hit it as a taxable benefit.

Probably, but it’s still a net win for the member. Member gets a housing subsidy that makes it possible to afford decent accommodations. Sure, CRA might hit them for 25% of that subsidy in taxes, but the member still comes out ahead, and with a roof.

If we pretend for a minute - and I’m sorry guys, but just indulge my fantasy here - that a reasonably staffed CAF is important to Canada’s national security and international relations, then it follows that recruiting and retention are of strategic importance. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again; housing our troops is more than just a housing question. Sure, call it a taxable benefit- but get some roofs up for our troops to live under, clean, healthy, and suitable to varying stages of their lives. Otherwise, enjoy being on the wrong side of labour mobility once they spend a few years in and gain marketable skills.