Canadian recruiters are incompetent

[BLACKBERRY]

Hello everyone.
My dream in life is to become a PPCLI infantry officer. I am twenty nine years of age and a third year university student majoring in sociology. I have been trying to join the army for the past several years. Unfortunately, I have received nothing but false information and incompetence from the staff members who work in the Vancouver downtown office. The first incident happened 2 years ago when I had just finished my first year of post secondary and decided to go and check out the recruiting center. The CEOTP program was open at the time and I asked the recruiters what qualifications I needed. They told me  that I just had to be a grade twelve graduate and that since I already had a year of university completed, I should have no problems getting into the program. They told me I would have to wait about 10 months before I would be able to go to officer school. I wrote the aptitude test and passed the security checks and physical. The problem was that they neglected to inform me that you needed Math and a pure science 12. When I graduated in 1996 you did not need Math 12 or a pure science to graduate. I took Biology 12, English 12, and Math 11, in order to graduate I also took History 12 and others to finish my diploma. Instead of doing my second year of post secondary I could have taken Math and Chem 12 which would have been free. I would have then had the qualifications to join as an officer. They called me 9 months later and I walked into my interview thinking I would be good to go. The officer told me that she was very sorry that I was not given the proper information and that the ceotp program would be closing this year. I have know completed Math and Chemistry 12 since they told me that even with a degree I would need these courses. The point is these idiots screwed up my chance of getting in just because they were to lazy to check to see if there were any pre requsists that I would need along with being a high school graduate. Another problem I had was that they were always losing pieces of my file. This happened on 5 different ocasions. They lost my refrences, medical files, and parts of my original application. The point to my story is that these recruiters are un educated idiots who could care less about potential recruits. I have know decided to join the reserves as a ncm while i am finishing my degree, and over the last 3 months they have lost parts of my file again.
My cousin is a recruiter for the British Army who works in the Strand office in England. I have told him what has happened to me and he thinks the Canadian army recruiting is
a joke. His office has less recruiters then the Vancouver office and they never loss peoples files. M

 

[Michael Dorosh]

You should have gotten the names of the individuals you were dealing with so that you could report their conduct to their superiors.  It always sounds unpleasant when you are asking someone their name, but it is a good habit to get into.  No way to complain until you have a name to use.  Trouble is, losing paperwork usually isn't the fault of the person "at the counter", but definitely there was no excuse for not giving you the proper info on prerequisites.  Unless for some reason - just exploring the options here - you were rude, dressed like a scumbag, or otherwise didn't seem like a serious candidate.

 

[skura]

Perhaps a better name for this thread would have been "Vancouver recruiters are incompetent"...unless of course there are unwritten complaints from others on this site...is it really this bad everywhere in Canada or just a select few idiots at a select few locations...don't get me wrong here, I'm on your side, but it can't possibly be this bad everywhere...

 

[Sundborg]

I was recruited through the Vancouver RC without many problems.  When I was applying for the ATIS Tech trade, which was around early June; they neglected to tell me until the beginning of september that the selection for the trade wasn't happening until around Oct/Nov.  That gave me a couple of months of wasting time, when I could have went for a different trade instead.  They also lost a couple of my papers in which I had to re-fax there.
The Vancouver RC has a few hicups that need to be sorted out. I know not everyone is perfect, but this is just a reaccuring problem.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

It seems losing paperwork is commonplace.  There have been investigations on this within 2VP.

 

[Big Foot]

I feel that this is quite an unfair statement as when I went through CFRC Calgary, I was provided with excellent information, both about ROTP and Reserves. The staff at the recruiting centre were friendly, well informed and very helpful. The only place where I encountered any problems was after my selection to the ROTP Juniour Applicant Program, though that was through no fault of the recruiters. Prep year for RMC is very under-advertised with few people, outside those who have actually done a year at Campus Fort Saint-Jean. really knowing what it is like. I went into Prep year blind, relying on outdated and inaccurate information which I had received. After prep year, I really feel that I was adequtely briefed by the staff at CFRC Calgary about the basics of military life, etc. And hey, if our recruiters are so incompetent, why are tere so many good people in the forces?
P.S. - ANyone seeking information about RMC Prep Year in Saint-Jean, feel free to message me

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've been waiting all summer to hear back from the recruiting office. This will be my 4th (and last)time putting in my CT.

 

[rormson]

I've been dealing with the CFRC Kitchener, ON and have to say that the Staff have all been excellent, aside from one airforce OCdt with an attitude.

I do think that there are enhancements that can be made to the procedures to speed up the process (and no these would not require $$ or more personnel) - - The onus is, however, on the applicant to have his/her **** together when applying. I've spent more than a   few hours in the waiting room at the CFRC watching guys come in ill prepared for the paperwork, etc.

Too bad that Vancouver's RC may not be working smoothly - - there is no excuse for 'losing' paperwork. I don't think it's fair to say that all of the recruiters are incompetent though.

 

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I think these kinds of problems may be systemic, with regards to all types of administration - computers are wonderful things but no one seems to use them to full advantage.  We have the technology to use bar scanners, for example.  We have the ability to serialize forms.  We can track registered mail via computer, but we don't have the ability to do the same with important documents like pers files?  I see the same thing at my civvie job - we have expensive customized software to do scheduling and payroll, but employees have no capacity to see their work schedule on the internet - they have to come in to work and try and get on to one of the few computer work stations which are constantly in use. 

I don't think the internet is the solution for the army due to operational security issues, but certainly we can do a better job of modernizing and tracking important paperwork.  For starters, have recruits come into the CFRC and type their applications directly into a secure terminal, or save it on a floppy and send it in where the CFRC staff can save it to their server and erase the floppy.  birth certificates and all that other stuff can be scanned, certified as true copies, and saved to a central database - then it can't get lost. 

Paper files build up and important, time sensitive stuff simply gets lost on a desk - electronic lists of "things to do" are much harder to lose.

Etc.

 

[rormson]

The electronic means of sharing the information suggested above is a good idea provided that the CF has extremely tight virus protection enabled at the CFRC's. The electronic means Michael mentioned should be investigated. My experience is that everything gets printed out at some point though - - the idea the computers actually save paper can sometimes backfire depending on the situation.

I still think that "losing" the type of information that is submitted during the course of an application for the CF is scary - - birth certificates, marriage licenses, SIN numbers, etc. are great tools for criminals/terrorists/fraud artists to build fake IDs from. Temporarily misfiled, misplaced? - -Sure. "Lost" in the quantities that we read about on this site - - unacceptable.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The computerization of the staffing and payroll functions at my civvie job actually resulted in about a 300 percent increase in the use of paper, so you are correct on that point.

 

[spenco]

I've never had any problems with CFRC Vancouver, the staff were very nice everytime I had to go do testing and every time I call for an update the people who answer the phones are very courteous (when they answer their phones   ).   The Captain who did my interview was really nice and gave me straight answers, they seem to be hard to come by sometimes.

 

[clasper]

While the term incompetent is pretty harsh, the current recruiting system certainly has lots of room for improvement from what I've read on this site.  I joined the reserves in 93, and it was a very simple process.  I walked into CFRC in mid-March, had an interview with the unit about a week later, and then went back to CFRC for one day in the last week of April.  I did the aptitude tests, medical and drug tests, and the interview all in one day, and then heard that I'd been accepted by about the 2nd week of May.  Sworn in mid-June, and on basic by the end of the month, about 3 months after I walked into the recruiting centre.  This was typical of everyone on my basic, with the exception of one buddy of mine.  He was living a transient lifestyle, and passing through Kingston.  He met a nice young lady in a local drinking establishment (who turned out to be an officer at CFRC) and decided to join up- he was on basic a week later.

If a 3 month recruiting process was typical, and it could be expedited under certain circumstances, why does it take months and months (or years) now?  From the results that people have posted, it would appear that the system is somewhat broken.

 

[winchable]

The trend I noticed growing is a lack of standardization throughout the system. For myself, I have had to deal with the inherent beauracracy on two occasions, once when I joined (Taking about 6 months, which isn't bad) and when I transferred to the navy (took roughly 1 year, and I'm still missing pieces of my files from it)
If it could work all the time, or None of the time we'd be set. If it worked all the time we'd have nothing to complain about..and if it didn't work EVER..then maybe someone would go wake up the guy in the mail room and get him to clear the jam in the file sorting machine. :

Of course this problem is as old as the day is long. Infanteer can vouch I'm certain, having read his discourses on the whole process which make perfect sense, but hey this is the military...there's no room for that kind of sensible thinkerage
Quite frankly, and perhaps a tad simply, the largest problem is the total lack of effort we put on the recruiting process. Which as I understand it, cannot be entirely a mistake, if our recruiting process was flawless then our training centers would be choked...even more so!

I'd always like to see what would happen if the rest of the military was run like a cfrc.
Parade would take hours "Yeah you have to see the guy right down there about that, and he'll give a shout up to the bloke in the office there who'll come down and review the movement before we can actually move to attention....whole process might take a half hour..but you know..just keep calling and eventually we'll get it to go through...these things do take time LS"

or perhaps...

"Actually general your travel voucher has to be stamped in triplicate by the seasick mars officer over there, his aunt and brother twice removed..then it has to be sent to our office across the country where it will be reviewed by the bloke in the office...but he's busy approving a parade movement to attention..so it may take a few weeks..months even..."

 

[Tickles]

good idea going into the reserves first and then going for officer. i know a guy who did the exact same thing.
best of luck

 

[pyrotiger]

I'm not sure how things are in Vancouver as compared to Edmonton, but here some recruiters  seem to change pretty frequently.  Thus, I wouldn't be surprised if some things were left out.  As for receiving incorrect information, I don't think its necessarily right to post the blame on the recruiting office, since there are so many details / assumptions to be made.  I've been told a lot of different things, and even on BMQ there were many things which the instructors couldn't answer.  Seems like the best thing to do is to ask as many different people as possible, and if its possible to get printed documents on minimum requirements, that would probably be the best thing to do.  Though I do offer my consolation for your predicament and wish you luck.

 

[winchable]

good idea going into the reserves first and then going for officer. i know a guy who did the exact same thing.

You're talking to one of them,
and I am 100% sure I am not the only one.
I will make a bold statement, saying it is one of the best ways to do it.

 

[Ryan_Bohm]

I have nothing but the best to say about the staff at CFRC in London. They were very imformative and willing to sit down with you to discuss/answer question that you might have had. There was a question on my file and the case manager called my house before the day was over to clear something. Thank you CFRC London for making everything go smooth and quick. 

 

[JasonH]

I've been going through Vancouver for the past 2 years (long story) while sorting out all the stuff I need to get done so I can enlist, great person to talk to is Petty Officer Gerry Milns, not sure if I got all that correct.  But he's been very helpful so far so I've just been going to him personally with everything.  But yea, I havn't had any problems so far with Vancouver RC so I hope my luck holds out  :warstory:

 

[humint]

Yes, we've all had tough times with CFRC.

But, if you still want to be an Officer with the PPCLI, all you need to do is apply as a DEO when you have a degree in hand.

And, it doesn't matter what degree you have, or what sort of high school credits you have, all you need is the degree.

When you go to CFRC, make sure you speak to the RECRUITING OFFICER and not the folks out front, as they are often just there marking time until their next tasking.