Canadian Surface Combatant RFQ

[Spencer100]

Here is a well deck of a 1100 class icebreaker/buoytender with a 20 ton crane. Below it is a tween decks and a hold that can accommodate 6-7 buoys plus anchors, chains, etc

View attachment 86348

I think many people (most outside of this forum) have a very clouded idea because of the USCG what the Canadian Coast Guard is. As you and other have educated me over the years.

Its a construction firm, a regulating body, a ferry service for science and constabulary with in some cases a SAR mission.

 

[Spencer100]

The above got me thinking. (or what could be called thinking in this brain lol)

An AOPS in operating in the North sees legal fishing or something (no RCMP/ DFO on board) within the 12 mile limit Can they make an arrest? (lets disregard the boarding party thing) I'm looking at the legal part? As the USN would not because of Passe Comitatus thus one of the USCG reasons for being. There is no one act or law in Canada but I think their are individual rules about the military and law enforcement. (that class for me was 40 years ago)

Or another case the RHIB from HMCS Hunter sees a smuggler? (now in Windsor its not a long wait for OPP/RCMP or Windsor Police to show up plus Detroit police and USCG for that matter)

 

[PrairieFella]

The above got me thinking. (or what could be called thinking in this brain lol)

An AOPS in operating in the North sees legal fishing or something (no RCMP/ DFO on board) within the 12 mile limit Can they make an arrest? (lets disregard the boarding party thing) I'm looking at the legal part? As the USN would not because of Passe Comitatus thus one of the USCG reasons for being. There is no one act or law in Canada but I think their are individual rules about the military and law enforcement. (that class for me was 40 years ago)

Or another case the RHIB from HMCS Hunter sees a smuggler? (now in Windsor its not a long wait for OPP/RCMP or Windsor Police to show up plus Detroit police and USCG for that matter)

Might be easier to open a couple billets up for DFO/RCMP on an AOPS. Call it a joint operation.

 

[Spencer100]

Might be easier to open a couple billets up for DFO/RCMP on an AOPS. Call it a joint operation.

I think there is a plan for that. I have read there is room for "riders" And have not RCMP DFO already get rides on RCN ships when the mission calls for it? I'm more interested in the legal v CAF.

Exploring the deference between RCN/CCG and the USN/USCG. The USCG has law enforcement built in I think.

 

[Fabius]

The above got me thinking. (or what could be called thinking in this brain lol)

An AOPS in operating in the North sees legal fishing or something (no RCMP/ DFO on board) within the 12 mile limit Can they make an arrest? (lets disregard the boarding party thing) I'm looking at the legal part? As the USN would not because of Passe Comitatus thus one of the USCG reasons for being. There is no one act or law in Canada but I think their are individual rules about the military and law enforcement. (that class for me was 40 years ago)

Or another case the RHIB from HMCS Hunter sees a smuggler? (now in Windsor its not a long wait for OPP/RCMP or Windsor Police to show up plus Detroit police and USCG for that matter)

I don’t believe either party in the two scenarios has sworn peace officer status from either a Federal or Provincial government and therefore would only be able to make a citizens arrest. I am doubtful of either party attempting that given the lack of training, equipment and probable backing by the respective higher CoCs.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don’t believe either party in the two scenarios has sworn peace officer status from either a Federal or Provincial government and therefore would only be able to make a citizens arrest. I am doubtful of either party attempting that given the lack of training, equipment and probable backing by the respective higher CoCs.

I seem to recall that a Captain of a CCG vessel is considered a Peace Officer or a Enforcement Officer for the purposes of CSA 2001

 

[Navy_Pete]

Since methanol and ethanol have much lower freezing point (and viscosity) than marine fuel. Would it be an option in the mid-long term to use them for propulsion in the Arctic? Much easier to store them at the refuelling station.
Just asking.

No, they have really low flashpoints so aren't currently allowed on ships under SOLAS due to fire risk. That's why marine diesel, JP5 etc are all over 60 C flashpoint. There are some discussions but adds a huge amount of extras for safe handling and storage, and then doesn't work for things like the RHIBs.

There are other issues, and ethanol isn't used in winter gasoline generally because it is a lot more susceptible to water absorption so water in the fuel will crash out at low temps and can cause major issues. Both are also lower calorific value so also increases fuel consumption and decreases operational range.

Biodiesel is a more realistic alternative, and I think they've gotten the gelling at low temps issue figured out, so more a production scale thing.

 

[lenaitch]

I seem to recall that a Captain of a CCG vessel is considered a Peace Officer or a Enforcement Officer for the purposes of CSA 2001

I'm not aware of that. Perhaps for some purpose under the Canada Shipping Act but they are not a Peace Officer as defined by the Criminal Code and I'm not aware of any definition of 'enforcement officer' in the CSA. Even if it were, it would only be for the provisions of that Act. They also might enjoy some common law authority or something under maritime law when it pertains to the safety and conduct of the ship.

I'm not familiar with its inner workings but under the Fisheries Act, a Fisheries Officer or Fisheries Guardian is someone appointed by the Minister.

One problem with appointing specific persons with power or authority to do something that isn't enjoyed by everyone it is usually not delegatable. Even if a ship's captain had such authority, they can't delegate it to a crew member, so all of the intricacies of forming grounds, taking custodial or enforcement action, etc. is theirs and theirs alone.

 

[Stoker]

Been hearing on some other forums that the VDS was cut, is that true? I would say no but nothing surprises me.

 

[GR66]

Been hearing on some other forums that the VDS was cut, is that true? I would say no but nothing surprises me.

That would be one of the most stunningly stupid decisions in the history of CAF stupid decisions if true. I don't buy it.

 

[PrairieFella]

Been hearing on some other forums that the VDS was cut, is that true? I would say no but nothing surprises me.

VDS?

 

[Allen]

Did your sources mean VDS (Variable Depth Sonar) or VLS (Vertical Launch System)?

Regarding towed sonar, comparing the latest infographic to that of a few years ago, it would appear nothing has changed (Ultra TFLAS is still listed). Then again, someone with inside info might know better.

It seems that a few years ago they were guessing there would be 32 Mk 41 VLS cells, now they mention only 24. So that may be the "cut" they are referring to.

 

[Stoker]

VDS?

Variable Depth Sonar

 

[Stoker]

Did your sources mean VDS (Variable Depth Sonar) or VLS (Vertical Launch System)?

Regarding towed sonar, comparing the latest infographic to that of a few years ago, it would appear nothing has changed (Ultra TFLAS is still listed). Then again, someone with inside info might know better.

It seems that a few years ago they were guessing there would be 32 Mk 41 VLS cells, now they mention only 24. So that may be the "cut" they are referring to.

No sources but just some chatter online. I think they are confusing TFLAS which is a VDS with something else

 

[Allen]

No sources but just some chatter online. I think they are confusing TFLAS which is a VLS with something else

You mean TFLAS is a VDS.

 

[GR66]

You mean TFLAS is a VDS.

or is that VHS? VHF? VCDS? or just VD?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

or is that VHS? VHF? VCDS? or just VD?

Sailors without STD's, my how times have changed

 

[Cloud Cover]

I was skimming through the RTX website last night looking at the RAM product. It seems the new rocket motors have considerably extended range and also improved maneuverability of the missile. To what extent for range it does not say, but for maneuverability it seems Block 2 Mod5 RAM missile can perform all of the expected air defence tricks and can also independently follow after launch and attack small surface craft including uncrewed high speed craft. Not sure if Sea Ceptor had that capability but having 42 versatile missiles such as that at the ready seems eminently appropriate as the Ukraine war informs tactical adaptability and weapons development.

Also, correct me if wrong but where the 24 cell Mk 41 VLS is set up, was there not a space reserved just behind it for a long bank of Sea Ceptor similar to the UK T26 ( which has both systems mounted forward of the bridge superstructure, aft of the 5” gun.

 

[Rainbow1910]

No sources but just some chatter online. I think they are confusing TFLAS which is a VDS with something else

I've seen the same chatter, I am 99% sure that people didn't see the VDS specifically spelled out on the fact sheet and immediately went into panic mode. The Ultra TFLAS should include the VDS in its overall package, hence it not being listed specifically. They would not cut VDS from a design largely based around ASW work, that is nonsensical even for the Canadian Govt.

 

[GR66]

I've seen the same chatter, I am 99% sure that people didn't see the VDS specifically spelled out on the fact sheet and immediately went into panic mode. The Ultra TFLAS should include the VDS in its overall package, hence it not being listed specifically. They would not cut VDS from a design largely based around ASW work, that is nonsensical even for the Canadian Govt.

Well here's the 2021 press release right from the Ultra website announcing their award for the VDS system:

Ultra is delighted to announce a contract award to commence work on the key Variable Depth Sonar (VDS) system for the Canadian Surface Combatant (CSC) program – named the Towed Low Frequency Active Sonar (TLFAS). This subcontract moves the development of CSC’s anti-submarine warfare (ASW) capability from the program definition phase into the full manufacture and delivery of the vessels suite of sonars.

[balance of release on the link above]