Class A over 16 days a month, Class A over 80 days a year

[chrising]

Good day all,

I am trying to find the regulation that states Class A cannot be over 16 days a month and more than 80 days a year.

I have looked through the QR&Os and the DAODs trying to find this and have been unsuccessful.

I fall under CMP if this makes a difference...

Should you do find this information, you will be putting food on my kitchen table, or at the very least letting me know what food I can put on the kitchen table.

Thanks for the help!

 

[dapaterson]

Generally, the directions on limits to class A parading fall under command or formation orders.  For example, in LFCA there is a LFCA Directive that provides such restrictions.

As a Reserve Med A, look for any Health Service group instructions on Reserve service.

 

[Monsoon]

I am trying to find the regulation that states Class A cannot be over 16 days a month and more than 80 days a year.

For the so-called "16 day a month" limit, see CMP Instr 20/04, para 3.1:
http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/mpi-ipm/20-04-eng.asp

In fact, what it specifically says is that "a Reserve Force member serving on consecutive five-day periods of Cl A Reserve Service with a one or two day break between periods over extended periods" isn't permitted. Someone looked at that and said, "So we can only work four days a week, and since there are about four weeks in a month, the most you can work is 16 days." That's not quite what the order says; I don't see why, for instance, you couldn't work five days one week and four days the next, for a total of 18 days a month, or 12 days straight, followed by a week off, followed by another 12 days straight, for a total of 24 days. Or even for a few weeks straight of five days a week, as long as it isn't over "extended periods".

The 80-day a year thing is, I believe, strictly an army reserve policy, which states, if I recall correctly, that the unit may authorize up to 80 days of class "A" per year, that approval from the brigade or Land Force Area is needed for employment up to 120 days, and that CMP must approve employment above 120 days. Class "A" limit policies like these (NAVRES has one as well, but less restrictive) usually cite Mil Per Instr 20/04, though that order doesn't say anything about cumulative days per year.

Unless MilPersCom has put similar limits on Mil Per Instr 20/04 (and I don't see why they would, since they own the "master" instruction), I would suggest that you're probably okay up to 120 days a year. Best to check with your chain of command to see what they're looking at, though.

 

[241]

Have never heard anything like this out west, the first 4 years I was in I probably had almost 200-250 class A days a year, between working at the unit, exercises, doing GD for course, or even taking courses....  Maybe it's an  east thing, maybe it something not followed out here...

 

[Jarnhamar]

Have never heard anything like this out west, the first 4 years I was in I probably had almost 200-250 class A days a year, between working at the unit, exercises, doing GD for course, or even taking courses....  Maybe it's an  east thing, maybe it something not followed out here...

And you probably worked every one of those days.

The problem is when CF members who get paid 2 or 3 times as much as you claim the same amount of class A days with less work being done-I believe they caught a colonel or general ripping off the class A system a few years back so they changed it and started really enforcing the 16 days a month rule unless authorized fairly high up the CoC.



For people wanting more class A days consider this, I'll use 241 as an example.

Class A you worked, lets say, 225 days last year.

If a class B member on a 1 year contract were to work 1 weekend a month and their regular work days (with a weekly CTO day thrown in for working Tuesday and Thursday nights)  they might "work"  216 days a year (- 20 to 25 days for paid annual leave, so 191 days) and get paid for a full 365.

A class A member will have to work 365 days in order to be paid for 365 days.

On a monthly scale a class B member may work 18 days and be paid for 30, a class a will be 30 for 30.


Class B members get a lot more benefits than class A ones, from medical to doing PT in the morning where often class A members aren't given an hour of PT plus time to shower.

A class A reservist working the same amount of days as a class B reservist is working twice as long in some cases with less benefits and getting paid less due to weekends and leave. 

It's easy to see it as just money in your pocket but the class A/B/C rules are in place for a reason.  How easy would it be for reserve units to cancel class B positions and just have members sign in every day.
-No (well less) job security.
-A 1:1 work to pay ratio
-It makes it easy for units to bully members. "If you don't like how you're treated we'll just call someone else in to work tomorrow"

If a unit is employing you and treating you like a full time employee you should get the same benefits security and privileges of full time employment.


The 16 day a month rule helps combat abuse at the higher levels and is supposed to stop units from taking advantage of young dudes on class A however the rule also severely handicaps the operations of units who depend on these young privates and corporals for a shit ton of daily tasks that units have to do, on top of training nights, unit ex's and brigade ex's.

 

[dapaterson]

Have never heard anything like this out west, the first 4 years I was in I probably had almost 200-250 class A days a year, between working at the unit, exercises, doing GD for course, or even taking courses....  Maybe it's an  east thing, maybe it something not followed out here...

Not likely.  Courses would be mostly class B, so would not count to the class A limits.

 

[George Wallace]

...and a unit can not just create Class B posns over 89 days on a whim.  Also, anything under 180 days of Class B will not give a Reservist any Medical or Dental benefits.  So?  What options are open to Reserve members and Reserve CO's when Unit/Bde/Area/CF budgets do not permit the hiring of members to fill critical positions?

 

[chrising]

Thanks you everyone for your help!

 

[bridges]

Not likely.  Courses would be mostly class B, so would not count to the class A limits.

Not sure if this is still done, but various courses used to be run on weekends on Cl. A from time to time - including basic training, & others.  I took my Dvr Whl crse on weekends at the local armoury.  I was on Class B in the OR at the time, but most of my course-mates were taking the course on Class A so it would have been added to their yearly parade total. 

 

[241]

Not likely.  Courses would be mostly class B, so would not count to the class A limits.

Normally yes, but not when it is a weekend course...