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Defence Policy in the 2006 General Election

ArmyRick

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OK, so once again we head to the polls. Moderators forgive me if this has already been done. With army.ca and the elections, we know that defence policy and procurement is going to be a big issue for us. So I wanted to start this thread where we can swap ideas, policies, elections promises and other goodies.
 
Anybody know what the Liberals and Conservatives have up their sleeve for defence promises in the up coming election? I don't mention NDP because I know defence is so far on the back burner with them that its probably not even on the stove.
 
ArmyRick said:
I don't mention NDP because I know defence is so far on the back burner with them that its probably not even on the stove.

The Dippers know about stoves?? Thought they just gathered around the community bonfire, cooking tofu burgers and bemoaning the death of the utopian dream ;)
 
MG34 said:
I could give a damn what the lieberals have to say.


I must say, your approach certinly sounds like the intelligent way to go about this mess we now have to decide on.
 
Just a note, this thread is for specific discussion on how defence policy is being addressed in the campaign for the January 2006 general election.  If you want to discuss the general politics of the campaign, the appropriate thread is here:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36886.0.html
 
Well according to the National last night, Defence once again did not make the Canadian Top 10 issues.

 
I'm not really big on politics so I'm just going to vote for which ever party that the Canadian Forces will benefit from most. I'm just wondering if anyone knows which party that may be. I'm just going to assume it's not the liberals.
 
Do your own homework.  Go to the various party websites, read their platforms and make a decision for yourself.
 
I checked some political party sites before I posted my question and coudn't find anything related to dnd. Probably have to wait until the campain gets flowin to here their true agendas.
 
HINT -- NONE CARE ABOUT THE CF, THE CPC LIKELY DO NOT CARE LESS - BUT HAVE AN IDIOT DEFENCE CRITIC
 
While I'm interested in at least listening to what all the parties have to say, I tend to agree with MG34 inasmuch as it doesn't matter what they promise, they will not get my vote.  After what we have seen with the Gomery report, I don't know how anyone could vote for them.  The last election was won with money stolen from the Canadian people.  The sponsorship program was supposed to fight separatism, but instead it succeeded in alienating Quebecers with the insulting notion that they can be bought.  People call Mulroney corrupt, but when his ministers were involved in scandal, they were forced to resign.  The Liberals, on the other hand, close ranks and attack the messenger instead of addressing the message.

People say Paul Martin brought us a prosperous economy.  The reality is that the Liberals benefited from the economic groundwork laid by the Mulroney government.  Free trade, while having a negative impact in some market sectors, has been a net benefit to the Canadian economy.  And then there is the GST.  Chretien promised to scrap the GST, and we still have it.  The fact is that without the GST Martin would have never balanced a single budget.  Speaking of balanced budgets, the Liberals tend to go on about not running a deficit (thanks to the GST), they never talk about the national debt that Trudeau gave us.

People call Stephen Harper scary.   But I've never heard anyone give a single concrete example of how his policies are something to worry about, just that he's generally scary.  I'm starting to think that people with this viewpoint are just reading newspaper headlines and not much more.  People say his religious convictions will influence the government agenda.  Stephen Harper isn't Stockwell Day, and I think people are just making an assumption about him.  On the gay marriage issue, he said yesterday that he would revisit the issue by conducting a vote to see if the house wants to revisit the issue, and if the vote is yes then they would have a completely free vote on the issue.  How is that scary?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not completely happy with the Conservative party.  I think Stephen Harper does a terrible job of communicating the message.  I think his staff must be bumbling idiots who can't find their collective arse with both hands for all the times they've dropped the ball.  And historically I have always been a Liberal supporter.  I just can't accept the complete lack of integrity that has infected the Liberal party.

With regards to who which party would be better for the military it's a simple issue.  In the past 37 years we have had Conservative government for 8 years, 9 moths.  The rest has been under the Liberals.  While the Conservatives did make cuts to the military under the 'peace dividend' they did makes some major investments.  For example the CF-18s& the Cormorant SAR helicopters - the program the Liberals cancelled and paid $500 million penalty, and we still don't have a Sea King replacement).  

What have the Liberals given us?  As mentioned they still haven't found a replacement for the Sea King, the CF-18s are outdated and will need to be replaced, we are rapidly losing our tactical airlift capability. Oh yeah, they also disbanded the Airborne regiment.  They have slashed and cut everywhere in the military.  The former Governor General took one of our airplanes for her personal use and our guys got stuck longer in Afghanistan.  The next Governor General appointed is a separatist.

I really don't get why people would support them.  I mean, if what has happend so far hasn't caused people to withdraw their support, what would it take?  A similar kickback scandal in Saskatchewan a few years ago wiped out the NDP party in that province, so why isn't the same thing happening to the Liberals?

That being said, whoever you support make sure you get out to vote.  I hate when people say they couldn't be bothered to vote.  The way I see it, voting is not only a right but a responsibility.  We live in a democracy paid for in blood by those who came before us, and when it comes right down to it, it's the reason we wear the un iform, right?

As far as the Defence Critic goes, I don't think he's an idiot.  He's not an experienced politician, and I don't agree with everything he says, but that doesn't make him an idiot.  Keep in mind that part of his job as the Defence Critic is to be critical of government policy.  Perhaps sometmes he could pick his targets better, but as a member of parliament he is excellent (I live in his riding).  I've had the opportunity to chat with him in person a few times; I think he is genuinely concerned about the welfare of the CF, and I think he would do well by us.  I will be volunteering on his campaign team this time around.  I think he would be a much better defence minister than Bill Graham, but I wish General Mackenie would run again; I think he would make an outstanding Minister of Defence.

 
I want to know how long its going to take until an elected party finally pays close attention to the Canadian Forces and starts funding us as well as anyother country funds their own military. Everyone thinks there's going to be a big war soon so the next elected party needs to put some serious thought into the military budget. I hate when I speak the a civie and they say things like "oh the U.S. will always have our back" because I don't think thats 100% true.
 
Hunter said:
As far as the Defence Critic goes, I don't think he's an idiot.   He's not an experienced politician, and I don't agree with everything he says, but that doesn't make him an idiot.   Keep in mind that part of his job as the Defence Critic is to be critical of government policy.   Perhaps sometmes he could pick his targets better, but as a member of parliament he is excellent (I live in his riding).   I've had the opportunity to chat with him in person a few times; I think he is genuinely concerned about the welfare of the CF, and I think he would do well by us.   I will be volunteering on his campaign team this time around.   I think he would be a much better defence minister than Bill Graham, but I wish General Mackenie would run again; I think he would make an outstanding Minister of Defence.


  He is an idiot.  He squanders political capital by fighting DUMB fights - issues the CF needs and he poo-poos's it based upon the fact it is a Liberal supported idea.  The fact is the Liberals have some many half baked ideas they can be torn aprt on and he decided to go after the one good idea.  He cost the CPC a lot of votes...
While I respect the hell of Mac -- I would not want him MD -- Foreign Affairs yes.  I dont think that retired soldiers make good MD's, they bring too much baggage.




 
Hunter said:
People say Paul Martin brought us a prosperous economy.  The reality is that the Liberals benefited from the economic groundwork laid by the Mulroney government.

True, but something has to be said for a fair job of management by the Liberal Party.  Just as Ralph Klein deserves credit for doing well with economic groundwork laid by wealth from natural resources.  You can have all the money in the world and still piss it away (as the BC NDP proved), so props have to be given for effective fiscal discipline.

As far as the Defence Critic goes, I don't think he's an idiot.   He's not an experienced politician, and I don't agree with everything he says, but that doesn't make him an idiot.

You won't be saying that if you were stationed to Goose Bay, without your Mk 19 (which he eliminated to ensure compliance with a non-existent ban on dud munitions) and wondering where your tactical transport is because he cancelled the fast-tracked purchase in favour of a 19,000 page, 15 year procurement process.... ::)
 
Infanteer said:
True, but something has to be said for a fair job of management by the Liberal Party.   Just as Ralph Klein deserves credit for doing well with economic groundwork laid by wealth from natural resources.   You can have all the money in the world and still piss it away (as the BC NDP proved), so props have to be given for effective fiscal discipline.

You make good points about fiscal management, but what about the integrity issue?  To me that is the key issue in this election.  Like I said I have historically been a Liberal supporter but in the past 10 years I've seen just too much rot and scandal, and I just can't vote for them.  Philosophically I'm definitely a Liberal, but I see very little of Liberal principles in the current Liberal party.

Infanteer said:
You won't be saying that if you were stationed to Goose Bay, without your Mk 19 (which he eliminated to ensure compliance with a non-existent ban on dud munitions) and wondering where your tactical transport is because he cancelled the fast-tracked purchase in favour of a 19,000 page, 15 year procurement process.... ::)

What did did he cancel?  I heard him criticize  what he saw as a rigged bid, but I don't think that he has sole authority to cancel any projects. 

Infanteer said:
He squanders political capital by fighting DUMB fights - issues the CF needs and he poo-poos's it based upon the fact it is a Liberal supported idea.

Heh heh that would imply that the Liberals have implemented policy to meets the CF's needs.  What I have heard him criticize is not the procurement of replacement arlift, but the fact that the bid criteria were in his opinion too narrow in scope and disqualified a number of potential bidders, and potentially handing out a massive sole-source contract.  From what I understand that's how we got the LSVW Amb (ok granted we can thank Kim Campbell for that).  And the other thing I heard him criticize is that fact that it is too little too late, and wanted the Lberals to commit more money to defence.
 
He should be picking on the major Liberal blunders.
Admitting that we need the C130J ASAP - but point out the reason it has to go this route is
1) Public Works is flawed
2) This should have been done 10 years ago
3) We need many more items.

Fact is the 130J is the only game in town -- He attempt to smoke screen that point.  Second the Contract is PERFROMANCE BASED -- which is what all MILITARY contracts should be -- the LSVW does nto even compare -- the contract was awarded and the vehciel did not match the specifications - which where then redrawn 3 times (lower and lower and lower)

Sole Source -- come on now -- It is an aircraft -- would you rather we have 8 types of tactical airlift?  ::)

I am a Conservative - but I am also a realist -- this guy is not and NEEDS to go, at least out of defence.



 

 
Hunter said:
You make good points about fiscal management, but what about the integrity issue?

I was simply responding to your complaint of giving Martin credit for the economy - integrity is another ball of hair.

What did did he cancel?   I heard him criticize   what he saw as a rigged bid, but I don't think that he has sole authority to cancel any projects.

It ain't cancelled because he isn't a Defence Minister - but I've yet to see any good ideas come from him, so I'm assuming the worst.
 
Any chance Lew MacKenzie might run for a second time?
 
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