Dennis' personal constitutional challenge, split from Re: Segregation Pre-Unification

[Dennis Ruhl]

The OP stated he believed there was an official policy. Neither he nor you have yet provided such a document.

I'm still looking for the document authorizing Canada to have a Prime minister.  When I find them, I'll let you know.

 

[armyvern]

I'm still looking for the document authorizing Canada to have a Prime minister.  When I find them, I'll let you know.

You, sir, are in a league of your own.

Just shoot me already.  :

The British North America Act, 1867.

 

[Dennis Ruhl]

You, sir, are in a league of your own.

Just shoot me already.  :

The British North America Act, 1867.

Not a word mentioned of a priime minister yet we have one.  I remember back to a friend I had about 40 years ago.  He was from Nairobi and we would discuss the British Empire and its demise.  One of his favorite expressions in these discussions was F--- You White Man.  Just as he didn't share the same opinion of the generosity of the Empire with me, perhaps the Black people of Canada didn't fully appreciate the largesse of the Canadian military in WWI.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Not a word mentioned of a priime minister yet we have one.  I remember back to a friend I had about 40 years ago.  He was from Nairobi and we would discuss the British Empire and its demise.  One of his favorite expressions in these discussions was F--- You White Man.  Just as he didn't share the same opinion of the generosity of the Empire with me, perhaps the Black people of Canada didn't fully appreciate the largesse of the Canadian military in WWI.

Dennis, once again you have shown your propensity to twist any thread you join into an opportunity to push your own narrow-minded political agenda.  You can cease posting in this thread unless you have a direct answer to the questions that have been posed.

Consider this your one warning.

Milnet.ca Staff

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not a word mentioned of a priime minister yet we have one.  I remember back to a friend I had about 40 years ago.  He was from Nairobi and we would discuss the British Empire and its demise.  One of his favorite expressions in these discussions was F--- You White Man.  Just as he didn't share the same opinion of the generosity of the Empire with me, perhaps the Black people of Canada didn't fully appreciate the largesse of the Canadian military in WWI.

Your extrapolation of people's thoughts, from a century ago, is either truly clairvoyant and miraculous or totally considerate on your complete lack of cognisant thought and the utter ramblings of a madman. Your friend from Nairobi and his obvious lack of where his people are because of civilisation are completely immaterial to the condusivness of the thread.

You stepped on your dick, in your attempt to show yourself morally superior to the rest of the members here, and the longer you try to explain your inane rambling only makes you look all the more ridiculous.

Swallow your pride, take your lumps, admit you made some stupid statements (or just quit trying to defend the indefensible) and we can all move on.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Not a word mentioned of a priime minister yet we have one.  I remember back to a friend I had about 40 years ago.  He was from Nairobi and we would discuss the British Empire and its demise.  One of his favorite expressions in these discussions was F--- You White Man.  Just as he didn't share the same opinion of the generosity of the Empire with me, perhaps the Black people of Canada didn't fully appreciate the largesse of the Canadian military in WWI.

This bit should do:

"Whereas the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom"
THE CONSTITUTION ACT, 1867, 30 & 31 Victoria, c. 3. (U.K.) (Consolidated with amendments)
An Act for the Union of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, and the Government thereof; and for Purposes connected therewith

The term "Prime Minister" evolved over the centuries, primarily beginning with Walpole, although he did not use the title himself. It appears, officially, when Disraeli was in office, but, according to what I have found - quick search - does not make it into the Gazette until early in the 20th century.

Mr. Ruhl: the really important parts of our, Canadian, constitution are found in the British Constitution, which is unwritten. The written bits, while interesting, don't really amount to very much; they are, largely, machinery of government administrivia.

 

[George Wallace]

Following on that, Section 18 of The Constitution Act, 1867 (the British North America Act, 1867) states:

18. The privileges, immunities, and powers to be held, enjoyed, and exercised by the Senate and by the House of Commons, and by the Members thereof respectively, shall be such as are from time to time defined by Act of the Parliament of Canada, but so that any Act of the Parliament of Canada defining such privileges, immunities, and powers shall not confer any privileges, immunities, or powers exceeding those at the passing of such Act held, enjoyed, and exercised by the Commons House of Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and by the Members thereof.

This models our parliament of of that of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, which happens to have a Prime Minister.


The same is reflected in the Parliament of Canada Act, 1875:

1. Section eighteen of the Constitution Act, is hereby repealed, without prejudice to Anything done under that section, and the following section shall be substituted for the section so repealed.

"The privileges, immunities, and powers to be held. enjoyed, and exercised by the Senate and by the House of Commons, and by the members thereof respectively, shall be such as are from time to time defined by Act of the Parliament of Canada, but so that any Act of the Parliament of Canada defining such privileges, immunities, and powers shall not confer any privileges, immunities, or powers exceeding those at the passing of such Act held, enjoyed, and exercised by the Commons House of Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, and by the members thereof."

The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the model that we have adopted.  Looking at the British model we see that the Prime Minister (Office, Role and Functions) Bill (Bill 60) lays out the role and duties of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.   

 

[armyvern]

BNA, 1867.

The Constitution Act, 1867
(THE BRITISH NORTH AMERICA ACT, 1867)

30 & 31 Victoria, c. 3.

[Consolidated with amendments]
An Act for the Union of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick, and the Government thereof; and for Purposes connected therewith.

(29th March, 1867.)

WHEREAS the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have expressed their Desire to be federally united into One Dominion under the Crown of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, with a Constitution similar in Principle to that of the United Kingdom:

And whereas such a Union would conduce to the Welfare of the Provinces and promote the Interests of the British Empire:

And whereas on the Establishment of the Union by the Authority of Parliament it is expedient, not only that the Constitution of the Legislative Authority in the Dominion be provided for, but also that the Nature of the Executive Government therein be declared:

And whereas it is expedient that Provision be made for the eventual Admission into the Union of other Parts of British North America: (1)

I. PRELIMINARY.
1. This Act may be cited as the Constitution Act, 1867.(2)

2. Repealed(3)

II. UNION.
3. It shall be lawful for the Queen, by and with the Advice of Her Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council, to declare by Proclamation that, on and after the passing of this Act, the Provinces of Canada, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick shall form and be One Dominion under the Name of Canada; and on and after that Day those Three Provinces shall form and be One Dominion under that Name accordingly.(4)

4. Unless it is otherwise expressed or implied, the Name Canada shall be taken to mean Canada as constituted under this Act.(5)

5. Canada shall be divided into Four Provinces, named Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, and New Brunswick.(6)

6. The Parts of the Province of Canada (as it exists at the passing of this Act) which formerly constituted respectively the Province of Upper Canada and Lower Canada shall be deemed to be severed, and shall form Two separate Provinces. The Part which formerly constituted the Province of Upper Canada shall constitute the Province of Ontario; and the Part which formerly constituted the Province of Lower Canada shall constitute the Province of Quebec.

7. The Provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick shall have the same Limits as at the passing of this Act.

8. In the general Census of the Population of Canada which is hereby required to be taken in the Year One Thousand eight hundred and seventy-one, and every Tenth Year thereafter, the respective Populations of the Four Provinces shall be distinguished.

III. EXECUTIVE POWER.
9. The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen.

10. The Provisions of this Act referring to the Governor General extend and apply to the Governor General for the Time being of Canada, or other the Chief Executive Officer or Administrator for the Time being carrying on the Government of Canada on behalf and in the Name of the Queen, by whatever Title he is designated.

11. There shall be a Council to aid and advise in the Government of Canada, to be styled the Queen's Privy Council for Canada; and the Persons who are to be Members of that Council shall be from Time to Time chosen and summoned by the Governor General and sworn in as Privy Councillors, and Members thereof may be from Time to Time removed by the Governor General.

12. All Powers, Authorities, and Functions which under any Act of the Parliament of Great Britain, or of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, or of the Legislature of Upper Canada, Lower Canada, Canada, Nova Scotia, or New Brunswick, are at the Union vested in or exerciseable by the respective Governors or Lieutenant Governors of those Provinces, with the Advice, or with the Advice and Consent, of the respective Executive Councils thereof, or in conjunction with those Councils, or with any Number of Members thereof, or by those Governors or Lieutenant Governors individually, shall, as far as the same continue in existence and capable of being exercised after the Union in relation to the Government of Canada, be vested in and exerciseable by the Governor General with the Advice, or with the Advice and Consent of or in conjunction with the Queen's Privy Council for Canada, or any Member thereof, or by the Governor General individually, as the Case requires, subject nevertheless (except with respect to such as exist under Acts of Parliament of Great Britain or of the Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland) to be established or altered by the Parliament of Canada

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

.....

The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is the model that we have adopted.  Looking at the British model we see that the Prime Minister (Office, Role and Functions) Bill (Bill 60) lays out the role and duties of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. 

Considering that that the UK bill cited  passed in 2001, some 19 years post repatriation of the Canadian Constitution, I hardly think it has much meaning in the strictly semantic (and ultimately pointless) argument that it is going here.

Yes, we have a PM based on British parliamentary tradition but Bill 60 above has nothing to do with it.

 

[brihard]

Considering that that that UK bill was passed in 2001, some 19 years post repatriation of the Canadian Constitution, I hardly think it has much meaning in the strictly semantic (and ultimately pointless) argument that it is going here.

Yes, we have a PM based on British parliamentary tradition but Bill 60 above has nothing to do with it.

Indeed. Such laws as were formally received from Britain came in at essentially a 'frozen' state at the time we received them, and at such time as we established our own statutory authority for all legal matters- in sum, no British law can be held to have any greater than persuasive influence post 1982, and, in practice, somewhat earlier than that.

That said, any debate on the provenance of our constitutional law, and its English heritage, must pay proper regard to the critical role of convention in our legal history.  No purely statutory approach to our system of government can be held to be well informed if it ignores the rules of convention that provide the nuance to the purely statutory structure providing the framework of our government.  The relationship between Parliament, PM, and the viceregal are as much - if not more - delineated by convention as they are written law. This is of much greater than merely persuasive influence; it's the 'common law' by which that described by statute actually functions.

 

[George Wallace]

Considering that that the UK bill cited  passed in 2001, some 19 years post repatriation of the Canadian Constitution, I hardly think it has much meaning in the strictly semantic (and ultimately pointless) argument that it is going here.

Yes, we have a PM based on British parliamentary tradition but Bill 60 above has nothing to do with it.

Following your logic our own The Constitution Act has no relevance either, as it to has been passed over and over again several times after the original.  The last dated was 1999.  Some of these Acts are meer formalities or ammendments to update previous provisions of the Acts or practices.  These Acts are not written in stone, but are living documents, and will constantly change with the times.

British North America Act, 1867
British North America Act, 1916
British North America Act, 1943
British North America Act, 1946
British North America (No. 2) Act, 1949
British North America Act, 1951
British North America Act, 1952


Constitution Act, 1871
Constitution Act, 1886
Constitution Act, 1907
Constitution Act, 1915
Constitution Act, 1930
Constitution Act, 1940
Constitution Act, 1960
Constitution Act, 1964
Constitution Act, 1965
Constitution Act, 1974
Constitution Act (No. 1), 1975
Constitution Act, 1982
Constitution Act, 1985
Constitution Act, 1999