Electric Vehicles for the ADF

[dimsum]

All vehicles, all electric: Australian Defence Force heading towards charged future

Federal government ministers have met with the domestic defence industry to discuss the future electrification of the Australian Defence Force’s vehicle fleet.

www.defenceconnect.com.au

Changed the topic headline to be a bit less click-baity

 

[YZT580]

All vehicles, all electric: Australian Defence Force heading towards charged future

Federal government ministers have met with the domestic defence industry to discuss the future electrification of the Australian Defence Force’s vehicle fleet.

www.defenceconnect.com.au

Changed the topic headline to be a bit less click-baity

entire topic can be lumped into the category "insanity"

 

[Colin Parkinson]

All vehicles, all electric: Australian Defence Force heading towards charged future

Federal government ministers have met with the domestic defence industry to discuss the future electrification of the Australian Defence Force’s vehicle fleet.

www.defenceconnect.com.au

Changed the topic headline to be a bit less click-baity

In 5 years I bet they have a dozen demonstrators and a bunch of the base admin vehicles as EV's, at which point the law of diminishing returns begins to kick in. Unless they go hybrid, then you can expand that a bit. At which point the program dies a natural death as a new flashy thing comes along.

 

[OldSolduer]

In 5 years I bet they have a dozen demonstrators and a bunch of the base admin vehicles as EV's, at which point the law of diminishing returns begins to kick in. Unless they go hybrid, then you can expand that a bit. At which point the program dies a natural death as a new flashy thing comes along.

If anyone can recall the "Propane powered vehicle" initiative in the early 80s.....it met a natural death. SO will the whole EV idea.

 

[YZT580]

If anyone can recall the "Propane powered vehicle" initiative in the early 80s.....it met a natural death. SO will the whole EV idea.

probably true but not before a lot of man years and dollars have been wasted that neither the Aussies nor any of the rest of us have to spare.

 

[brihard]

If anyone can recall the "Propane powered vehicle" initiative in the early 80s.....it met a natural death. SO will the whole EV idea.

As the technology matures, electric vehicles are an inevitable progression towards energy efficiency when the technology can work for given use cases. An ICE car loses a lot of energy as heat and to mechanical friction, and of course squanders quite a bit of energy while idling or coasting. EVs are still very new; batteries are continuing to improve as are other systems. But ultimately, as power grids are beefed up and generating capacity increased (and make no mistake, it WILL happen), and as technology matures and costs come down, EVs (with or without gas hybrid) will become the go-to for situations where running out of gas or a need to replenish away from infrastructure isn’t a realistic concern. I can absolutely see organizational/institutional admin fleets being part of this.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

As the technology matures, electric vehicles are an inevitable progression towards energy efficiency when the technology can work for given use cases. An ICE car loses a lot of energy as heat and to mechanical friction, and of course squanders quite a bit of energy while idling or coasting. EVs are still very new; batteries are continuing to improve as are other systems. But ultimately, as power grids are beefed up and generating capacity increased (and make no mistake, it WILL happen), and as technology matures and costs come down, EVs (with or without gas hybrid) will become the go-to for situations where running out of gas or a need to replenish away from infrastructure isn’t a realistic concern. I can absolutely see organizational/institutional admin fleets being part of this.

So EV patrol cars for rural Saskatchewan RCMP detachments, then?

 

[brihard]

So EV patrol cars for rural Saskatchewan RCMP detachments, then?

No, or not anytime soon, but I already accounted for that:

EVs (with or without gas hybrid) will become the go-to for situations where running out of gas or a need to replenish away from infrastructure isn’t a realistic concern.

Urban police forces are already successfully running them. Not sure how many cruisers the Mounties run in Morse, SK, it I bet they have a lot more in Surrey and Burnaby. I think I saw something about the Mounties actually running a few Teslas last year.

Some services in the States have started running EVs successfully.

Electric vehicles prove they can handle police work

The time has come for EVs to take on patrol car duties

www.police1.com

In the military context, no reason most of the domestic blue fleet use wouldn’t eventually (or in some cases immediately) be able to be run by EVs.

 

[YZT580]

As the technology matures, electric vehicles are an inevitable progression towards energy efficiency when the technology can work for given use cases. An ICE car loses a lot of energy as heat and to mechanical friction, and of course squanders quite a bit of energy while idling or coasting. EVs are still very new; batteries are continuing to improve as are other systems. But ultimately, as power grids are beefed up and generating capacity increased (and make no mistake, it WILL happen), and as technology matures and costs come down, EVs (with or without gas hybrid) will become the go-to for situations where running out of gas or a need to replenish away from infrastructure isn’t a realistic concern. I can absolutely see organizational/institutional admin fleets being part of this.

Do you see your own sarcasm here? Your statement implies no urgency in trips taken by organization or admin. It doesn't really matter if they run out of gas. So by all means duplicate your fleet: doubling the cost of local vehicles as you will still need at the very least some hybrids to go the extra distance.

 

[brihard]

Do you see your own sarcasm here? Your statement implies no urgency in trips taken by organization or admin. It doesn't really matter if they run out of gas. So by all means duplicate your fleet: doubling the cost of local vehicles as you will still need at the very least some hybrids to go the extra distance.

My statement implies no such things. If employees can be trusted to keep a car gassed up they should be able to be trusted to plug an EV in. Operationally the CAF has at least a little bit of experience with making sure vehicles are ready to go. That’s just a supervision of equipment thing like anyone else.

I’m sure if police services have started making succesful use of EVs, it won’t be super long before CFB Trenton can make it work for at least most day to day running around. Nothing wrong with having a few hybrids or keeping a reserve of pure ICE for situations where that may be needed.

Also recognize that the state of the technology now will not be the state of the technology in ten years. Nor will the economics.

 

[Haggis]

In the military context, no reason most of the domestic blue fleet use wouldn’t eventually (or in some cases immediately) be able to be run by EVs.

Will there be enough battery life to keep the RSS warm for an entire weekend?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I see hybrids as the perfect solution for Canada, ICE vehicles are very efficient while moving, but become inefficient while idling. The hybrid solves that problem nicely and doe it with a battery that cost much less than an EV battery.

 

[dimsum]

No, or not anytime soon, but I already accounted for that:

Urban police forces are already successfully running them. Not sure how many cruisers the Mounties run in Morse, SK, it I bet they have a lot more in Surrey and Burnaby. I think I saw something about the Mounties actually running a few Teslas last year.

Some services in the States have started running EVs successfully.

Electric vehicles prove they can handle police work

The time has come for EVs to take on patrol car duties

www.police1.com

In the military context, no reason most of the domestic blue fleet use wouldn’t eventually (or in some cases immediately) be able to be run by EVs.

Most of the negative comments here are based on the Canadian context (too cold to keep a charge). Not really an issue in Australia.

I haven’t driven an EV but presumably there is a “battery gauge” that shows how much longer it has until it needs a charge.

 

[lenaitch]

Most of the negative comments here are based on the Canadian context (too cold to keep a charge). Not really an issue in Australia.

No, but a/c probably is.

Even if you are just sitting at a crime/collision, it can be for hours, and you need to keep occupant comfortable and equipment operating. ICE vehicles can idle for hours (with perhaps an overheating problem, but that is manageable). If an EV has to be swapped out, that is a fleet and staffing issue, particularly in deployed operations.

One problem with EV police patrol vehicles, at least in Ontario, is they have to be put forward by a manufacturer as 'police/rough service, then certified (Michigan SP does this in the east, CHP in the west), and I'm not aware anybody has done it. It's a niche market.

I'm not in touch anymore but know that the OPP has had some hybrids in its admin and pool fleet for several years.

 

[RangerRay]

Although I’m still sceptical of EV’s as currently offered, I’m very impressed with how the heater will almost instantly heat the cab in -20C.

 

[brihard]

@Bzzliteyr - got anything from your experience on how EVs look for what we’re describing here?

 

[RDBZ]

Some recently released "hybrid" SUVs are, in terms of their fundamental architecture, EVs with a small ICE on board that simply drives a generator as and when, or if, needed.

The first time I drove a conventional hybrid I was surprised how much more efficient, and quiet, it was in certain circumstances: frequent stop, start or low speed driving; short bursts of rapid acceleration; or in hilly terrain.

I'm not sure why either of those technologies could not be applied to military vehicles. Perhaps the very long lifespan of military designs has created something of a time warp in terms of driveline technology.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most of the negative comments here are based on the Canadian context (too cold to keep a charge). Not really an issue in Australia.

I haven’t driven an EV but presumably there is a “battery gauge” that shows how much longer it has until it needs a charge.

Heat is also a killer of EV batteries and they will consume a lot of power to stay warm or cool. Telsa is the king of battery thermal management, can they still do that as well with the cheaper EV's they are talking about? A lot of the cheaper EV do not have as much battery protection as a Tesla has.
The next killer of EV batteries is the operator and how they charge batteries. If you avoid fast charging, only to 90% and not lower than 30% remaining, store the vehicle in a cool dry place, then the battery will last a long time.

I see Base Support Vehicles as the best place for EV's. A military can buy stock EV's and use them on base and mandate usage and charging. I encourage militaries to experiment with Hybrids in the field and learn what works and doesn't on exercises.