"Flavours of Democracy"
- Thread starter Kirkhill
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Imperial Edict:
"Every Canadian will have a Medical Service Account, their own Crown of sovereignty, and a licence to carry a sidearm (that they must buy on their own, it is not the governments job to make sure everyone has access to a Glock)!!!"
"Every Canadian will have a Medical Service Account, their own Crown of sovereignty, and a licence to carry a sidearm (that they must buy on their own, it is not the governments job to make sure everyone has access to a Glock)!!!"
A
Agamemnon
Guest
Well keep it or not...we have no choice.
Besides...i think the anti monarchy is present here in quebec...
a few years back when the queen cae to quebec city the hole street gave her the finger and mooned her...
but that was back then...
but the queen qouls never step foot here again anywais..
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Pi la criss de salpe dans le message precedant qui me fait chier avec mon orthographe mo lui en crisser une :threat:
Besides...i think the anti monarchy is present here in quebec...
a few years back when the queen cae to quebec city the hole street gave her the finger and mooned her...
but that was back then...
but the queen qouls never step foot here again anywais..
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Pi la criss de salpe dans le message precedant qui me fait chier avec mon orthographe mo lui en crisser une :threat:
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Zipper said:
You won't be the only odd person out, I'll agree with your sentiment. Yes Bruce, I'm America bashing again!!!!
As for the thread, Canada doesn't need the monarchy. It is something that has outlived it's usefulness and is now just a drain on the treasury. How much is spent on the GG, Lieutenants-Governor, their residences and staff? What do they do? Not on paper, or theory, but in reality? Like the current PM or not he/she is the leader of the nation and no appointee should be able to do anything about that.
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Not that I disagree with you on the current reality, Sigpig, but perhaps the reason so many things have gone off the rails is because the PM acts as the "leader of the nation" without any sort of checks and balances. Despotic Roman Emporers; Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin and Mao Tse Tung are extreme examples as to just how far this "leader of the nation" thing can go.
So perhaps a Living Monarch is not appropriate for the times. A symbol like an unworn crown or the Constitution could serve as the embodyment of the values and hopes of all Canadians, but a "Head of State" with a bit of muscle would have the far greater effect of providing a leash on out of control governments.
Anyway, I am much more interested in what you see as the alternatives. A Res Publica Canada perhaps?
So perhaps a Living Monarch is not appropriate for the times. A symbol like an unworn crown or the Constitution could serve as the embodyment of the values and hopes of all Canadians, but a "Head of State" with a bit of muscle would have the far greater effect of providing a leash on out of control governments.
Anyway, I am much more interested in what you see as the alternatives. A Res Publica Canada perhaps?
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As much as I hate to admit it ;D - I've come to respect the American system of free votes in the House and Senate where people can vote the way they want without the same kind of fear that Canadian legislators have of party whips.
Even with Republican control of everything, things aren't a slam dunk here the way they are in Canada for a PM with a majority government. Some Republicans have been critical of some of Bush's proposals for Social Security so he may have to modify them to get them approved through a legislature controlled by his own party.
In Canada, if the PM wants something done and has a majority in the Commons, that's the way it is. I'm not big on the symbolism side of things so I don't see a need for something 'higher' than the PM. If there could be true parliamentary reform with free votes and getting away from the foolish notion that a government must fall if it losses a vote, maybe Canada could work better.
Even with Republican control of everything, things aren't a slam dunk here the way they are in Canada for a PM with a majority government. Some Republicans have been critical of some of Bush's proposals for Social Security so he may have to modify them to get them approved through a legislature controlled by his own party.
In Canada, if the PM wants something done and has a majority in the Commons, that's the way it is. I'm not big on the symbolism side of things so I don't see a need for something 'higher' than the PM. If there could be true parliamentary reform with free votes and getting away from the foolish notion that a government must fall if it losses a vote, maybe Canada could work better.
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But sigpig for that system to work you have to elect a King and call him President.
Or Governor-General.
And then you have to let folks know who he is by giving a Crown to wear, or carry, or a Seal to be carried around with him. Or her.
Cheers ;D
Or Governor-General.
And then you have to let folks know who he is by giving a Crown to wear, or carry, or a Seal to be carried around with him. Or her.
Cheers ;D
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I don't see how I turned us into Americans?
They don't have Medical Service Accounts (they are serviced by private, as opposed to public, large bureaucracies) and they don't have a Soveriegn Crown. Obviously, the sidearm dig was at government paternalism, but if you think that is an imporatant "Canadian" thing, then fill your (government mandated) boots.
They don't have Medical Service Accounts (they are serviced by private, as opposed to public, large bureaucracies) and they don't have a Soveriegn Crown. Obviously, the sidearm dig was at government paternalism, but if you think that is an imporatant "Canadian" thing, then fill your (government mandated) boots.
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The main body of "official" opinion in Canada seems to be "The Americans should see how we do things and they will learn something, since we're so much better" (mostly espoused by the CBC, watching their newscasts is often as fun as gong to the dentist).
I suspect a lot of Americans DO look at what is going on in the GWN, and don't like it. I would like to see a more reciprocal arrangement: we can certainly examine how things work in the United States (both theory and practice) and draw a few lessons from them as well. I try to stay within my arcs, economics allow you to make empirical observations, so comparing things like rates of growth or unemployment really can give you some answers. Like it or not, they have lower taxes, higher economic growth and lower unemployment.
They also have a stronger sense of nationhood, since they are assimilationist's; not multiculteralists. Having a King probably would not change that. IF we are to thrive as a nation, we need to propagate some sense of civic nationality, since Kirkhill's blood model would not work here (the vast influx of immigrants from around the world would destabilize that model). An apolitical symbol would be a strong way of doing so, binding people to a common symbolic which represents all Canadians (The President, the Constitution and the Flag are the three big ones in the US, American posters can enlighten us on the various ways these symbols are reinforced and manipulated in their daily lives).
I suspect a lot of Americans DO look at what is going on in the GWN, and don't like it. I would like to see a more reciprocal arrangement: we can certainly examine how things work in the United States (both theory and practice) and draw a few lessons from them as well. I try to stay within my arcs, economics allow you to make empirical observations, so comparing things like rates of growth or unemployment really can give you some answers. Like it or not, they have lower taxes, higher economic growth and lower unemployment.
They also have a stronger sense of nationhood, since they are assimilationist's; not multiculteralists. Having a King probably would not change that. IF we are to thrive as a nation, we need to propagate some sense of civic nationality, since Kirkhill's blood model would not work here (the vast influx of immigrants from around the world would destabilize that model). An apolitical symbol would be a strong way of doing so, binding people to a common symbolic which represents all Canadians (The President, the Constitution and the Flag are the three big ones in the US, American posters can enlighten us on the various ways these symbols are reinforced and manipulated in their daily lives).
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Personally, I rather look to europe. They have higher taxes, higher growth rates, and lower unemployment for the most part. And they look after their own people as a whole.
Yes, they have a strong sense of nationhood, but then it is constantly in their faces down there. They are also a much more selfish people as a whole.
I still agree with Kirkhill (I think). Our Gov is just fine, and the monarchy is fine and will eventually fade away with time like all things. By then, we'll have naturally changed into something different then we are today because of responses to various issues.
Yes, they have a strong sense of nationhood, but then it is constantly in their faces down there. They are also a much more selfish people as a whole.
I still agree with Kirkhill (I think). Our Gov is just fine, and the monarchy is fine and will eventually fade away with time like all things. By then, we'll have naturally changed into something different then we are today because of responses to various issues.
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Zipper said:
Sorry Zipper but the facts speak otherwise. European countries do indeed have higher taxes. Their unemployment rates are almost double that of the US at 10%, and their rate of economic growth is hovering around the 2% mark. Japan is suffering a similar economic situation, although the proximate causes are a bit different.
If you are reffering to the Americans as being selfish, just look to the Tsunami zone, where the Americans sent more money, manpower and equipment than anyone else (and faster too), even though they are not well liked in that region. The oh so helpful Europeans can be catagorized as well. Italy, a member of the Coallition of the willing in Iraq, sent their "DART" to Siri Lanka within 48 hr. France, the only European nation with a nuclear powered aircraft carrier (a very handy item in a disaster scenario as well, self contained airport, hospital, electrical generating station, water purification supply, etc. etc.) still hasn't made any moves to send their ship into the Pacific.....
Kirkhill is quite correct in that things will change, for the better, we can hope.
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As a_majoor points out, and as I stated, the blood based thing is a non-starter for an entity with citizens with every blood-line in the world, literally. At this point in time there is still a sizeable proportion of the population that relates to 3 main groups of blood lines and a mulititude of others
The solution as far as I am concerned is to recognize the contributions that the Natives, the French and the Brits have made to this country, honour those contributions in our symbols and history and then set about creating new symbols that reflect Canada.
A perfect example, as far as I am concerned are the Queen's Colours carried by every (AFAIK) Canadian Regiment with the Crown on the Maple Leaf. A great blending of a traditional symbol that honours the past as well as being unmistakably Canadian.
As far as Americans being more selfish than Europeans Zipper, you obviously need to get out and meet more of us Europeans ;D . A great deal of my buddies' time used to be spent trying to figure out how to beat the tax-man and secure maximum benefit for themselves - all the while cursing their own government, cursing greedy Americans and trying to finagle as many trips as possible to the US.
By the way some of you may have noticed by now that I seem to tie a whole bunch of people into me as distant relatives. That's because they are. I don't know about the rest of the pure-bloods out there. ;D
Cheers.
The solution as far as I am concerned is to recognize the contributions that the Natives, the French and the Brits have made to this country, honour those contributions in our symbols and history and then set about creating new symbols that reflect Canada.
A perfect example, as far as I am concerned are the Queen's Colours carried by every (AFAIK) Canadian Regiment with the Crown on the Maple Leaf. A great blending of a traditional symbol that honours the past as well as being unmistakably Canadian.
As far as Americans being more selfish than Europeans Zipper, you obviously need to get out and meet more of us Europeans ;D . A great deal of my buddies' time used to be spent trying to figure out how to beat the tax-man and secure maximum benefit for themselves - all the while cursing their own government, cursing greedy Americans and trying to finagle as many trips as possible to the US.
By the way some of you may have noticed by now that I seem to tie a whole bunch of people into me as distant relatives. That's because they are. I don't know about the rest of the pure-bloods out there. ;D
Cheers.
