FLQ Crisis

[Lost_Warrior]

I was speaking with some friends who have been in longer in the military than I have and the subject of the FLQ crisis and the Reserves called to duty.   One was saying that a Sgt in the reserves (who at the time was a Cpl) got live ammunition in their rifles.

The other guy was saying how he heard from a WO (who I have no clue what his rank was at the time) told him that only the reg force members patroling the streets got live ammo, and the reserves did not.

I was just wondering if anyone here can confirm who is right and who is wrong.

Thanks!

 

[pbi]

Your friends are referring to OP GINGER, which was the largest-ever deployment of the Canadian Army in Aid of the Civil Power, (OP GRIZZLY was Assistance to Law Enforcement/Other Government Department). This was an operation that was carried out in response to a request from the Province of Quebec in October 1970, after they assessed that municipal forces and the QPP could no longer maintain order in the face of the actions of the FLQ. The "October Crisis" was the culmination of several years of violent acts by the FLQ, including (IIRC) over 200 acts of arson and bombing against Federal structures such as armories.

AFAIK, OP GINGER was carried out IAW the current CF doctrine on Aid To The Civil Power, which IIRC in those days did not envision the use of Reserve soldiers in an emergency. In fact, in those days the Reserve was used for very little at all. There were very few slots overseas, and almost no use of Reserves in Dom Ops. Therefore, I would think that it was very unlikely that any Res soldiers were armed during OP GINGER.

I stand to be corrected if anybody has better facts.

Cheers.

 

[TCBF]

They did arm the federal cabinet with revolvers, did they not?  I read a post on another site about cabinet being issued snub nosed revolvers and being trained on the range with them.  Evidently, their best shot - Trudeau - was the only one who did not turn his in at the end of the crisis. 

Any one else able to confirm this? I only have one source, thusfar.

Tom

 

[winchable]

Has anyone ever seen that interview Trudeau did where the reporter asked him "how far he was willing to go?"

 

[S McKee]

Yes it was probably the only time I had any respect for Trudeau, "Just watch me"

 

[pbi]

They did arm the federal cabinet with revolvers, did they not?   I read a post on another site about cabinet being issued snub nosed revolvers and being trained on the range with them.   Evidently, their best shot - Trudeau - was the only one who did not turn his in at the end of the crisis.  

Any one else able to confirm this? I only have one source, thusfar.

Tom

My God! What a horrifying thought! I could only imagine the results of arming THAT group of worthies!!

Cheers

 

[pbi]

Yes it was probably the only time I had any respect for Trudeau, "Just watch me"

During his address to the nation on the night that the WMA was proclaimed, he also stated that a civil society must be prepared to use force to protect itself against those who would use violence to destroy it. An interesting contrast to how we usually see him.

Cheers.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

But does anyone know for sure weather or not the reserves involved were given live ammo or not?

 

[PPCLI MCpl]

My Pl WO is in the process of writing a paper on Op Ginger for his ILQ and I managed to read the handouts provided to him.  It would appear that the reservists in Quebec during the late sixties/early seventies were not entirely trusted due to the possibility of FLQ sympathizers residing within the various units.  One of the tasks of the Van Doos and CAR was to secure several Reserve armouries in order to prevent Militia soldiers in assisting with the FLQ's Maoist style revolution.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Thats strange considering all Vandoos I had the mis-pleasure of meeting were the most hardcore quebecois, or separatist people I have ever met.   I had one guy in the Vandoos jack me up because I didnt know french (which was retarded considering I was on and ENGLISH course). He took me in front of their banner (Regiment Francais du Canada or whatever) and told me "Learn da fukin language" in a heavy french accent and then walked off.....

Most militia units in Montreal are English, or English/French mixed...and they were worried about us?

 

[pbi]

Thats strange considering all Vandoos I had the mis-pleasure of meeting were the most hardcore quebecois, or separatist people I have ever met.   I had one guy in the Vandoos jack me up because I didnt know french (which was retarded considering I was on and ENGLISH course). He took me in front of their banner (Regiment Francais du Canada or whatever) and told me "Learn da fukin language" in a heavy french accent and then walked off.....

Most militia units in Montreal are English, or English/French mixed...and they were worried about us?

I don't think that the problem was really who "most" Militia soldiers were in 1970 (not now...).

I think that the issues were a) that sympathizers in small numbers would infiltrate (or were already there-recall that we are talking about the good old days of "armoury basement recruiting" in which Res units did the recruiting and the paperwork pretty much as they liked--the degree of background checking was sometimes minimal, if it was done at all...); or  b) the armouries would be targeted for attacks.

I still believe that given the attitudes of the 1970s toward the Militia, and its virtual "non-involvement" in almost anything operational in those days, it would be extremely unlikely that any were armed. But, maybe somebody knows different?

Cheers

 

[Fishbone Jones]

We mounted guards in our armouries with live ammo outside the weapons lock ups as there was no alarm system at the time. Basically sat at a six foot table outside the door with a Browning, in the holster. We also put armed guards on our ammo shipments, to return unused ammo, held at the armouries, to the nearest CF base.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Were you reserve or reg force at the time?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Reserve.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Ok, so Reserves were given live ammo.

Thanks.

 

[pbi]

OK. I'm surprised, but so be it. Thanks for that interesting info.

Cheers.

 

[Harddriver]

Hello all. I'm currently doing my ILQ and chose the topic of the FLQ. I can't seem to find any info on what if any hardships the troops went through wrt equipment and the media. Any help is welcomed. 8)

 

[1feral1]

If I remember correctly, a CF Member was killed as his 9mm SMG went off as he 'debussed' of the back of M35 Cdn 2 1/2T (Duece) truck.

Do a search for that.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[Acorn]

You may have to resort to paper books for that one. Good luck on the course.

Acorn

 

[Harddriver]

Thanks for the help. Take care