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Former Hostage Questions Recent Rescue?

The Bread Guy

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This, from a Washington Post blog:
Anyone who’s read former CBS journalist Jere Van Dyk’s account of his captivity in Pakistan’s tribal region in 2008 could be excused for thinking an armed rescue is virtually impossible.

And so thinks Van Dyk himself, reflecting on the case of Linda Norgrove, the British aid worker killed during a rescue attempt by U.S. special operations troops Friday night, Oct. 8.

Van Dyk thinks the rescue was reckless, perhaps undertaken out of a misguided sense of chivalry.

“I've been following the Linda Norgrove case as closely as I could, every day wondering about her, thinking of her, imagining her, a woman, alone, knowing that she was taken in Kunar, a rough place, but I always felt she would survive,” Van Dyk told SpyTalk over the weekend.

An armed rescue mission in that area is “well nigh impossible,” he said.

“The villages and valleys are completely silent at night. The quietest helicopter would make a lot of noise. All villages have dogs everywhere and they bark.”

“It is easy for me to say, and highly inflammatory, but my feeling is that they would have never harmed her, never violated her," he said of Norgrove. "Other women in the village would have probably known that she was there. They had to cook for her, lead her to a toilet..."

“So why did they go in for Linda Norgrove?” he asks. “Was it because she was a woman and they were afraid that she was being be raped every day, or did they get word that they were going to kill her, or move her across the border? I don't know, but I am sick to my stomach…”

“I think it was male pride,” Van Dyk said, “wanting to protect and to save a woman in distress that drove the military to act. This is very honorable, but wrong.” ....
Wild guess:  they went in because they would have gone in if it was a male hostage, too  ::)

More on that situation from the Associated Press here, and BBC here.

In a related vein, one analyst/worker in Afghanistan says "don't rescue me":
.... kidnapped British aid worker and DAI employee Linda Norgrove was killed by her captors during a rescue attempt by international forces.

While I agree with British foreign secretary William Hague that “Responsibility for this tragic outcome rests squarely with the hostage-takers,” Norgrove’s death is a good illustration of one reason why, if I’m ever kidnapped here, I do not want to be rescued.

Afghanistan isn’t Hollywood; hostages are likely to be killed in armed rescue attempts.

The other reason I don’t want to be rescued is that rescue attempts, even when they succeed, can and often do result in collateral damage.

The cost of rescuing New York Times correspondent Stephen Farrell last year was the lives of at least three innocent Afghans, Farrell’s Times colleague Sultan Munadi, a civilian Afghan woman and child (members of one kidnapper’s family, but surely blameless in the kidnapping), and a young British commando.

Farrell will have to carry that burden for the rest of his life.

I don’t want that.

So, no rescue. And no ransom. If I am unlucky enough to fall into the hands of people who mean to do me harm or use me for political ends as a captive, by all means engage them in dialogue, but pay them no money, and raise no weapons in defense of my life.

Those are my wishes, now in writing.
 
What a douche bag.

I'm sure the US sat around and said OMG they have one of our wimminfolk, that's an affront to our honor! We must rescue her from the barbarians, y'all mount up!


http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/38297/99999999/1/1/
Being held under the Taliban, Van Dyk was given two choices: convert to Islam or die. He went through the motions of the prayers.
Fancy that.

He suspects honor is one of the reasons why the Taliban didn't kill him, although he is still uncertain. When he was released, the Taliban commander told him, “congratulations on escaping death.” Van Dyk adds, “I knew he wanted to kill me. Somebody above him made the decision not to.”
Misguided chilivary bad, misguided honour good.
 
According to Wikipedia the Allies had gotten intercepts indicating that Linda Norgrove was to be executed. That's why the Brits made the decision to carry-out the raid. Another possible reason is to send a message to any other potential kidnappers that they can expect retaliation. In this case, all six kidnappers were killed, including two Taliban commanders.
 
She was a UK citizen and the SAS worked closely with SEAL Team 6 to effect the rescue. If one of the SEALs hadnt thrown a grenade unknowingly in Norgrove's direction this rescue would have been successful. Bad luck all around.
 
tomahawk6 said:
She was a UK citizen and the SAS worked closely with SEAL Team 6 to effect the rescue. If one of the SEALs hadnt thrown a grenade unknowingly in Norgrove's direction this rescue would have been successful. Bad luck all around.
I'm not  a SF type, but, you are right. Luck does play a part. My two cents minus the taxes...
 
tomahawk6 said:
She was a UK citizen and the SAS worked closely with SEAL Team 6 to effect the rescue. If one of the SEALs hadnt thrown a grenade unknowingly in Norgrove's direction this rescue would have been successful. Bad luck all around.

One of the reports I read stated SEAL Team 6 carried-out the raid because the kidnappers were in the American AOR and it would have taken to long for the SAS/SBS to familiarize themselves with the area.

Has it been confirmed that Norgrove was killed by a grenade from the SEALs and not by the Taliban?
 
This is from an article in the BBC regarding a conversation with Gen. Petraus (highlights mine):

He said "the best operatives in the world" had risked their lives on the mission, adding: "It was in the course of pulling the video off a hard drive that provides a sharper image, that is fed through to the ops centre floor that it was very clear that there was a throw-in motion, an explosion that followed that and a grenade had been employed."

Full article here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11551594
 
Now the investigation. MG Votel is to lead the investigation. The article alluded to a question of Votel's impartiality. I think you have to include someone who knows the ropes around JSOC or else how can you evaluate the situation ? The SEAL that evidently employed the grenade is going to be punished unfortunately. Situational awareness will be closely scrutinized. In a hostage rescue you have to know where the hostage is and it looks like that they lost sight of her,or else a grenade wouldnt have been used.

O-8 to head investigation of failed rescue

By Sean D. Naylor - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Oct 18, 2010 5:40:49 EDT
 
The assignment of Maj. Gen. Joe Votel to investigate the failed hostage rescue mission that cost the life of British aid worker Linda Norgrove illustrates the challenges senior leaders face in balancing independence and expertise when picking someone to investigate Joint Special Operations Command.

JSOC is the three-star command that conducts the military’s most sensitive special ops missions. Its task forces typically include elements from the Navy’s SEAL Team 6, the Army’s 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (or “Delta Force”), the 75th Ranger Regiment, the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment and other units.

Norgrove died Oct. 9 during a night mission conducted by the JSOC task force in Afghanistan. According to a detailed account in Britain’s The Guardian newspaper, she was probably killed by the blast of a fragmentation grenade thrown by a member of SEAL Team 6. Votel, now chief of staff at U.S. Special Operations Command, was deputy commander of JSOC from July 2008 to July 2010, and previously commanded the 75th Ranger Regiment, which has a prominent role in JSOC operations in Afghanistan.

Best qualified for the job

In his last JSOC assignment, Votel was deployed as the task force commander, special operations sources said. Nevertheless, most special operations community members contacted by Army Times said he was an ideal choice for the Norgrove investigation, and would be demanding and thorough, even though he would be investigating personnel and units that until three months ago were below him in his chain of command.

Indeed, that recent experience “running the show” is probably what got him the job of investigating such a high-profile incident, a senior field grade special operations officer said. “It had a lot to do with trying to make sure they had the right kind of individual with the right kind of experience,” he said.

“Major General Votel was assigned because I consider him best qualified,” Marine Gen. James Mattis, head of U.S. Central Command said, in an e-mailed reply to questions from Army Times. Mattis, who was asked to appoint an investigator by Gen. David Petraeus, the commander of the International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, added that he had no concerns that Votel’s recent assignment as deputy JSOC commander might compromise his ability to be seen as an impartial investigator.

Unmatched integrity
Several special operations sources contacted by Army Times spoke up to defend Votel against any concerns that his background in JSOC might lead him to go easy on the organization or even engage in some form of coverup.

“Major General Joe Votel is extremely qualified to conduct this investigation, and his integrity is unmatched,” said a senior field-grade officer who’s known Votel for more than 10 years. The officer said Votel has conducted at least three major investigations previously. These include one in early 2009, while he was JSOC deputy commander, into a JSOC task force operation in which several members of an Afghan family were killed, the senior field grade officer said. “This was a Ranger Regiment operation,” the officer said, noting that although Votel was a former commander of the regiment, “they [i.e., the Rangers] were shaking when they knew who was coming to do the investigation.”

“Joe is a real stand-up guy with a lot of integrity,” a former senior special operations official said, adding that the “really soft-spoken” Votel has “a hell of a lot of combat experience [and] a hell of a lot of experience in Afghanistan,” and is a strong candidate to replace Vice Adm. Bill McRaven as JSOC commander.

However, he acknowledged that it was “an interesting sidelight” that the aftermath of the Norgrove rescue mission has shined a harsh light on the SEALs, and that both Votel’s most recent boss — McRaven, the JSOC commander — and his present boss, SOCOM commander Adm. Eric Olson, are the military’s two highest ranking SEALs.

The fact that Votel is investigating troops he led until about 90 days ago underlines the challenges senior military leaders face in deciding how to investigate incidents that happen under the purview of JSOC, a unique organization composed of equally unique component units.

Ideally, an investigator is far enough removed from the units or individuals he is investigating that there can be no appearance of conflict of interest. But equally important, the investigator must have enough experience in the subject at hand that he knows the right questions to ask.

“The real challenge becomes who can do this investigation,” a former senior special operations official said. “You have to have some knowledge of the missions, some knowledge of the organizations and some knowledge of the tactics, techniques and procedures used, which means you have to almost go internal, not to mention it’s a special mission unit, so you’ve got to do it with internal people to do that.”

“This is not a surprise to me that they picked Joe Votel,” the former senior special operations official said, adding that it was highly unlikely that someone without a JSOC background would have been picked. “They’re going to go in-house.”

Potential conflict of interest
While most sources for this story strongly supported Mattis’ selection of Votel, a former Delta officer took issue with it both because of Votel’s closeness to JSOC and his background in the Rangers, rather than in Delta or SEAL Team 6, the two units that specialize in hostage rescue.

“Joe Votel’s a good guy, but you’re setting him up for failure,” the former Delta officer said, adding that Votel was in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation.

A former JSOC staffer said that while he expected Votel to conduct “a full, diligent, thorough investigation ... certainly, to an outsider ... there’d be concern” about a potential conflict of interest.

In answer to the former Delta officer’s comment that Votel’s Ranger background did not give him sufficient expertise in hostage rescue operations, the senior field grade officer who’s known Votel for more than 10 years said the general had all the experience necessary to ask the right questions. “He will do the most thorough job that can be done as the investigating officer,” the senior field grade officer said.

Multiple sources said that because, based on published reports, the investigation was likely to focus on the actions of the SEAL assault force, rather than larger issues of planning or command and control that might implicate JSOC or the Rangers, Votel’s recent history should not provoke suspicions of any coverup.

“We’re not talking about a complicated affair; it sounds like an individual mistake,” said a retired Army senior leader who added that he had no problem with Votel doing the investigation.

“It’s not the same thing as putting a SEAL in charge,” a former special mission unit commander said, adding: “I know Joe Votel and he’s a really straight guy.”

“Votel would be a good guy to do this,” a former legal adviser to the JSOC community said. “He’s got enough basis of knowledge, but because he’s not a SEAL, there’s a low [risk] of taint.”

Votel will be joined on the investigating team by Brigadier Rob Nitsch, a one-star officer who heads Joint Force Support, U.K. Forces Afghanistan. Nitsch was appointed after Mattis invited the British government to send representation to the investigating team.
 
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