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Future Helicopters

SeaKingTacco

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The EH-101/CH-149 is up around the CH-53 for downwash intensity, so I’m not surprised, Weinie…
CH-148 Cyclone is the worst I have ever seen for downwash. It is downright unpleasant to work under the helicopter and it can be difficult to not get blown off your feet.
 

Good2Golf

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CH-148 Cyclone is the worst I have ever seen for downwash. It is downright unpleasant to work under the helicopter and it can be difficult to not get blown off your feet.

Well, they put almost EH-101/CH-149 weight into a footprint slightly larger than a Sea Hawk…the math sucks…are more accurately, blows…a LOT! It has a weight loading of 11.1psf, so between a Black Hawk and a Super Stallion.
 

Good2Golf

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All said, where bouncy castles and big tents are involved….it doesn’t take much pressure to get them moving… 😉

 

KevinB

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MV-22: 10.7-22.3 psf (Min/Max AUW)
CH-53: 9.5-15.0 psf (Min/Max AUW)
UH-60: 8.2-9.2 psf (Min/Max AUW)
CH-47: 6.2-9.3 psf (Min/Max AUW)

Because I haven’t read it yet (as I wasn’t sure I would fully understand it) is the min number at hover, and max pull all up being the most it will push when the pilot is clawing for air with max collective/throttle?
 

SeaKingTacco

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Because I haven’t read it yet (as I wasn’t sure I would fully understand it) is the min number at hover, and max pull all up being the most it will push when the pilot is clawing for air with max collective/throttle?
It has to do with how heavy the helicopter is. AUW= All Up Weight
 

Good2Golf

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It has to do with how heavy the helicopter is. AUW= All Up Weight
This, KevinB. The figures are for relative comparison in a stabilized hover at the light/heavy extreme of weight. Hover can occur either In or Out of Ground Effect (HIGE/HOGE) which also affects downwash (HIGE results in lower downwash due to the cushion effect of the air being compressed between the low hovering helicopter, versus high OGE). That’s why sometimes skid-equipped helos would hover much lower than standard when hover taxiing near other aircraft…particularly if not secured/tied down well. The report gets into other factors as well, but the psf disc loading figures are a very decent comparative representation amongst various rotorcraft.

how would the downwash on the defiant compare?

I haven’t seen detailed specifications, but roughly think with a similar main rotor disc area and approx 50% greater gross weight than the Black Hawk, they’ll see a moderate increase in thrust/rotor psf on the Max AUW end of the weight spectrum. I’d guess something like 8.5-13.0 psf, so between a Black Hawk and Sea Stallion.
 

SeaKingTacco

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An added problem on the Cyclone are the massive sponsons which create an incredible burble of disturbed air that does not separate cleanly from the fuselage…
 

Good2Golf

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An added problem on the Cyclone are the massive sponsons which create an incredible burble of disturbed air that does not separate cleanly from the fuselage…
Chinook: Here, hold my beer!
44AB24C5-BC75-48A4-858B-7447DF2E0018.jpeg

…just kidding…those sponsons while both large and long, are well shaped to have much smoother airflow than even the standard Hook sponsons.
 

KevinB

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Rumor has an award is imminent for FLRAA - with the decision on FARA in 2023.
 

Spencer100

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Rumor has an award is imminent for FLRAA - with the decision on FARA in 2023.
Bets anyone?

FLRAA Lockheed

FARA Bell

Since they won't want to give both to thr same company.
 

KevinB

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Bets anyone?

FLRAA Lockheed

FARA Bell

Since they won't want to give both to thr same company.
Bell was in Benning last week for a Hail Mary on the V-280 -- I think they know that ship sailed though.
Given the V-22 issues in SOCOM, I don't see Tilt Rotor getting the nod -- plus the size requirements for the landing area is much larger than the Defiant X.

I am not so sure they won't give both to LocMart, the Boeing partnership really made tough, as the Army is already all in on LocMart (Sikorsky) and Boeing, and it looks like the Hook replacement will also be a JV between the two.

Bell only has standing with the USMC, so no sacred cows to provide top cover for them with anything in FVL
 

Good2Golf

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Bell has had a tumultuous journey after the Huey…bookkeepers may agree with your prognostications @KevinB.
 

KevinB

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Interestingly enough the Hook replacement is scheduled to start for 2030, with 2040 service adoption, but Boeing says 2060 is a more realistic time frame.
Given they and LocMart are the only game in town…
 

Good2Golf

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Interestingly enough the Hook replacement is scheduled to start for 2030, with 2040 service adoption, but Boeing says 2060 is a more realistic time frame.
Given they and LocMart are the only game in town…
Just on momentum alone, HVL is likely not going to hit the 2030-2040 band without a 12-15 year ROLEX right…
 

KevinB

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Just on momentum alone, HVL is likely not going to hit the 2030-2040 band without a 12-15 year ROLEX right…
Yeah, albeit, I did double check my trusty https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32045-ATP_1-02.1-001-WEB-3.pdf
ROLEX is supposed to be Min or Hrs +/- not years ;)

Given that FLRAA is just about to be entering contract award, and not expected to be a fleet replacement until 2030 (to which I am still snickering -- my guess is 2035), I don't see any ambition to try to shoehorn FLRHA into 30-40, I am guessing start at 40, and 55-60 would be fleet conversion (baring any major incidents that could slow it down).
 
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