Hamas invaded Israel 2023

[OldSolduer]

If Hamas keeps using the kids as human shields they're probably not going to be aiming AKs at anyone in the future.

As Lenin once said - maybe not him but it is attributed to him - "you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs"

OR if you prefer from that glorified murderer Chairman Mao "the guerilla is a fish and the people are his sea". SO its ok to hide among the populace and use them as shields according to terrorist doctrine.

 

[Remius]

The IDF doesn’t have to do anything. As I have said before this war ends when Israel chooses to end it.

The IDF and Israel’s defence apparatus is completely built with one purpose. Defence of Israel. One just has to ask from who? It is also not a theoretical. It has been tested many times, and it only takes the one time for it to fail for this to be over.

I would argue their right to self defence has already been met and exceeded. Israels border has been restored. Hamas has been decimated and is unable to effectively carry out attacks on their population. It will be many years before they have any sort of capability to do so again, if they ever get the conditions for a actual attack to succeed in the slightest.

so your argument is that they will actually try again. Maybe not now but later? You just justified what Israel is doing.

Carrying on isn’t actually for protecting their population, it’s for appeasing the extremists in the Israeli ranks.

Fair. But I would argue they are achieving both.

I don’t trust a single word out of that politician’s mouth. He understands the words to say to appease the west well speaking the opposite to his constituents.

Of course not. I’m not sure he’s appeasing the west. I am convinced that he knows that when this conflict is over, he will have a lot to answer for.

I suppose thats the big difference between Hamas and Israel. Hamas doesn’t pretend they don’t want the Israelis gone. They don’t pretend anything they do wasn’t intentional. They don’t cover up how much of a POS they are.

‘Exterminate the beasts’: How Israeli settlers took revenge for a murder in the West Bank

Israeli settlers went on a violent rampage last month, inciting and co-ordinating attacks on WhatsApp.

www.bbc.com

Uh…have you seen any of their sympathizers (basically their PR machine) avoid the Oct 7th question? Or refuse to define what From the River to the Sea means, or refuse to recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organisation? Hamas doesn’t have to cover anything up because their useful idiots do it for them.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Yup, aka Ethnic Cleansing, or to make it sound better "Voluntary Migration", promoted by Israeli officials:

Israeli minister supports ‘voluntary migration’ of Palestinians in Gaza

Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich calls the move the ‘right humanitarian solution’. Critics call it ‘ethnic cleansing’.

www.aljazeera.com

Note that Colin said " force the Muslim States to accept Palestinians as immigrants with full citizenship rights", implying that such would be part of a broader peaceful solution, not "force the Palestinians to leave at gunpoint"

A negotiated and compensated, orderly voluntary migration to better conditions in neighbouring Muslim states, all governed by a multi-national compact and overseen by the UN bares next to no similarity to the atrocities brought to mind (Serbia, Rwanda) with the term "Ethnic Cleansing", to the point where I'd say using it is being deliberately intellectually and emotionally dishonest to shut down discussion.

 

[ueo]

My substack feed is full of pro Israeli posts. I have a couple of questions.

Did the IDF find a bunch of tunnels connecting Gaza to Egypt?
Is the number of civilian deaths much lower than what the Gazans are reporting?
Was there a bunch of resorts of the Mediterranean Coast pre Oct 6?
Is the reports of mass famine overblown?

Yes
Probably as the reporting crew is Hamas
A Couple
By looking at recent tv clips of markets I'd say yes. Again reported solely by hamas!

 

[ueo]

It definitely makes me wonder whether Spain has thought through their position, or are just reacting.

Legitimizing terrorism and violence to achieve "state" status is not something I'd be doing if I was running Spain. Then again, my understanding of Spanish politics is barely even surface level.

Hmmmm checkn basque uprisings and franco's civil war.

 

[ueo]

Note that Colin said " force the Muslim States to accept Palestinians as immigrants with full citizenship rights", implying that such would be part of a broader peaceful solution, not "force the Palestinians to leave at gunpoint"

A negotiated and compensated, orderly voluntary migration to better conditions in neighbouring Muslim states, all governed by a multi-national compact and overseen by the UN bares next to no similarity to the atrocities brought to mind (Serbia, Rwanda) with the term "Ethnic Cleansing", to the point where I'd say using it is being deliberately intellectually and emotionally dishonest to shut down discussion.

IMO none of the ME states want them.

 

[IKnowNothing]

IMO none of the ME states want them.

They don't want the destabilizing influence the populace would introduce to their own countries.

But more importantly such a course of action would effectively cement Israel's existence, improve its security, and forever remove a friction point that (as long as it exists) might be used as a catalyst to a conflict that will erase Israel. Can't have that.

 

[abduly85]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795016939200209044

KevinB, you really need to stay current...a couple of hours after this Open Source Intel post Netanyahu himself admitted that the strike itself was a "tragic mistake". Seems like the Israeli Hasbara teams were in panic mode and tweeting the usual propaganda.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795289439725633732

I lol'd but it really isn't a laughing matter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1794730207435190743

Also, please stay on topic, I'm not sure what these posts have to do with this Hamas/Israel thread?
I had to double check if I clicked on the Islamophobia thread?

 

[Quirky]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1795289439725633732

The same schools that have the same lefties currently squatting on their property?

How many trade schools have encampments on them currently?

 

[abduly85]

In that case, what does "from the river to the sea" refer to?

Oh, it's the 1977 Charter of the current Israeli Government (Likud):
"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977".
So tell me again who has been the obstacle to peace& justice for the last 60 years?

Here's the source (from the Jewish Virtual Library) as I'm not good with using memes as sources:

Original Party Platform of the Likud Party

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Anyway, it's a distraction to focus on chanting a phrase while the reality on the ground is that Israel is currently engaged in a genocide that's killing kids at rate of 60 kids per day.

 

[QV]

Curious, would the pro-Palestinian side identify as predominantly democrat or republican?

 

[tomydoom]

Hmmmm checkn basque uprisings and franco's civil war.

Lets not forget Catalan separatism.

 

[Rudburg]

Oh, it's the 1977 Charter of the current Israeli Government (Likud):
"The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable… therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. —Likud Party Platform, 1977".
So tell me again who has been the obstacle to peace& justice for the last 60 years?

Here's the source (from the Jewish Virtual Library) as I'm not good with using memes as sources:

Original Party Platform of the Likud Party

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Anyway, it's a distraction to focus on chanting a phrase while the reality on the ground is that Israel is currently engaged in a genocide that's killing kids at rate of 60 kids per day.

It was a PLO slogan long before it was adopted by Likud. And in its current usage it is clearly a call to ethnically cleanse Israel.

As for who is the obstacle to peace...who actually wants peace? Hamas certainly doesn't, they are free to surrender at any time.

Anyway, it's a distraction to focus on chanting a phrase while the reality on the ground is that Israel is currently engaged in a genocide that's killing kids at rate of 60 kids per day.

It's fairly clear what Hamas wants; the chants just prove it. War may be hell, but that does not make it genocide.

 

[Quirky]

t Israel is currently engaged in a genocide that's killing kids at rate of 60 kids per day.

Source: Trust me bro.

 

[abduly85]

Man, Israel is slowly but surely trying to isolate itself from its own allies. Stooping so low to the level that the head of Mossad personally threatened the physical safety of the ICC prosecutor and her family: "You don’t want to be getting into things that could compromise your security or that of your family."
I haven't checked but I don't even think that North Korea or Russia got to the level of threats!
This just came out this morning, an investigation by the Guardian:

Revealed: Israeli spy chief ‘threatened’ ICC prosecutor over war crimes inquiry

Mossad director Yossi Cohen personally involved in secret plot to pressure Fatou Bensouda to drop Palestine investigation, sources say

www.theguardian.com

 

[McG]

I haven't checked but I don't even think that North Korea or Russia got to the level of threats!

They have both threatened the world with nuclear weapons in the last handful of months. So, North Korea and Russia have gone past that level of threat.

 

[brihard]

Also, please stay on topic, I'm not sure what these posts have to do with this Hamas/Israel thread?
I had to double check if I clicked on the Islamophobia thread?

Oh no you don’t, you can take a seat. You never did reply to the original subject of the thread when called on it multiple times by several of us. You’re fast to condemn anything by Israel but you have absolutely nothing to say about the slaughter of civilians, the kidnappings, and the holding of, torture, and rapes of hostages taken that day. Even after the ICC charges have been requested on all of these things you won’t condemn or even criticize Hamas.

So far as any of us can tell, after you’ve fled from multiple express calls to state your position, you’re an outright Hamas sympathizer until you demonstrate otherwise. You don’t get to carry water for a literal terrorist organization and then come here and tell the rest of us to ‘stay on topic’ so you can keep pushing your exceptionally one-sided propaganda.

 

[Rudburg]

I haven't checked but I don't even think that North Korea or Russia got to the level of threats!

Novichok, YS-11, Blue House, Cheonan, Japanese citizens being kidnapped...

 

[Brad Sallows]

Hamas has been decimated and is unable to effectively carry out attacks on their population. It will be many years before they have any sort of capability to do so again, if they ever get the conditions for a actual attack to succeed in the slightest.

It's possible that Israel is trying to achieve the doctrine of "win this fight and all the next ones". It's unquestionably true that a society's militarism can be substantially reduced - at least for a few decades - if defeated by a sufficient margin.

 

[Lumber]

KevinB, you really need to stay current...a couple of hours after this Open Source Intel post Netanyahu himself admitted that the strike itself was a "tragic mistake". Seems like the Israeli Hasbara teams were in panic mode and tweeting the usual propaganda.

These two things aren't mutually exclusive. I read somewhere (have to go an verify) that the missile hit its target, but it was secondary explosions and fires that caused the civilian casualties.

Anyway, it's a distraction to focus on chanting a phrase while the reality on the ground is that Israel is currently engaged in a genocide that's killing kids at rate of 60 kids per day.

There, fixed that for you.