Hatches down!Please!!!

[Prariedawg]

On the advent of the BTE in Oct 2005 we were told all armoured movement from now on would be"hatches down" .This order was a "safety" order in response to a young Van Doo being killed when his LAV 3 rolled into the Battle river in Wainright.I agree as far as concerns the LAV" that all manovoures should be "hatches down"no problem with the periscopes there(I did my lav driver in 2002).As good visibility with" hatches down" as "up" in a LAV.The problem I face is that I drive a forty year old M113 with no seat belt or proper back support and no suspension at 30km an hr over the same ground and I cant see squat through those ancient periscopes(nothing at all to the right,the grill blocks the right hand periscope,and dont talk about attempting to drive at night,where every little divot hit cause the driver and Crew commander HUGE back strain).IMHO the m113 is safer driven "hatches up"(which should be confined to Battle runs)than not .Any M113 drivers hitting the same problem?

 

[George Wallace]

Every M113 and Lynx that I drove had seatbelts......just no one used them.

 

[GO!!!]

I think the Hatches down edict was a "flinch", based on the propensity of the LAVIII to roll over.

I am not well aquainted with the probabilities associated with heavy metal, or rolling a 113 variant or a Leo, but judging by their low center of gravity, I would'nt think that this would be a problem.

I think the problem will arise when troops get run over by armoured vehicles who cannot see where they are going - thanks to a well intentioned but poorly thought out rule.

 

[Love793]

Is this decree strictly for drivers, or does it include CC, Gunners and GIBs?  If it's strictly for drivers, it should make little impact (so long as common sense is used).  However if it also includes Commanders and Gunners, then there will be a problem.

 

[ERIK2RCR]

I'm sick of hearing about the LAV's "roll problem". For the ammount of abuse we put them through, the carrier performs exceedingly well, save a few isolated incidences.

 

[dangerboy]

Is this decree strictly for drivers, or does it include CC, Gunners and GIBs?  If it's strictly for drivers, it should make little impact (so long as common sense is used).  However if it also includes Commanders and Gunners, then there will be a problem.

On the BTE this was for Drivers only, CC went hatches up. The only time a CC went hatches Down was when he left the attack position and as soon as the dismount was called he went hatches up.

 

[Love793]

At least they went hatches up when the order to dismount occurred.  As everyone is now very aware, as soon as the commander is buttoned up, it severely limits the vision that every one has.  My suggestion is just that, when there is even the remote chance (on Ex) of some unsuspecting individual being turned into a hood ornament, the CC should be hatches up, and moving rather slowly, as long as the Tac Situation allows it.

 

[GO!!!]

I'm sick of hearing about the LAV's "roll problem". For the ammount of abuse we put them through, the carrier performs exceedingly well, save a few isolated incidences.

Units that use the LAVIII and LAV 25 operationally have also identified a propensity to roll, including the USMC, US Army, Australian Army and us.

Whether you are sick of hearing about it or not, it is true. Most rollovers are attributed to driver inexperience, excessive speed, or both, suggesting that the problem lies with the drivers, not the vehicle, but nevertheless, more people have died in LAV rollovers in the last year than LUVWs, and they are even more top heavy, driven at higher speeds, and used more often, in addition to the fact that we use twice as many of them.