History's Greatest Navy?

[Lumber]

I can't let the fact that most people are on "army.ca" and not "milnet.ca" lead to discredit upon Canada's Senior Service

So, separating the criteria into four eras:

Pre-Age of sail (think Roman Triremes, medieval galleys);

Age of Sail;

Steel Hulled Warships up to WWII;

Modern Navies.

 

[OldSolduer]

Modern.....USN....they dominate whereever they go

 

[Remius]

Hmn,

Pre-age- The Athenian Fleet.
Age of sail- The British
Steel Hull- The British again
Modern- USN without a doubt.

 

[ghyslyn]

We'll always have to give credit to the german kriegsmarine, an amazing show of force for a nation that has a relatively small coastline and few ports compared to its enemies.

 

[benny88]

We'll always have to give credit to the german kriegsmarine, an amazing show of force for a nation that has a relatively small coastline and few ports compared to its enemies.

  I think the Japanese Navy is very relevant for developing naval battles from ships shooting at each other to "power projection" using aircraft. Although Navy purists may not like me bringing up aircraft.  

 

[Lumber]

Ok this one doesn't seem to spur that much debate (perhaps the "army.ca" side of this site is taking its toll) so I'll change the question slightly.

TODAY, on a ship per ship basis, who has the most capable Navy? Obviously, if comparing Aircraft Carriers nothing really compares to a Nimitz, and no one but the USN has Cruisers (save one Kirov), so how about Destroyers and Frigates? Toe to toe, one ship on one ship, who's navy could trump the rest?

 

[X-mo-1979]

----}Insert here that some Canadian ship has a characteristic that would destory all others-----{

Is that what your hinting at? ;D

 

[Red 6]

Not an expert on this subject, but I've done quite a bit of reading on Naval history. In terms of nation building and shaping the maritime world, I'd have to say the Royal Navy in the age of sail would have to rank as among the most powerful and influential. "To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World," by Arthur Herman, really does a good job of telling this story in an entertaining and informative way. My wife doesn't even like the subject much, and she found the book to be a great read.

cheers, Mark

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ok this one doesn't seem to spur that much debate (perhaps the "army.ca" side of this site is taking its toll) so I'll change the question slightly.

TODAY, on a ship per ship basis, who has the most capable Navy? Obviously, if comparing Aircraft Carriers nothing really compares to a Nimitz, and no one but the USN has Cruisers (save one Kirov), so how about Destroyers and Frigates? Toe to toe, one ship on one ship, who's navy could trump the rest?

A ship means nothing if a crew cannot handle it properly or a Captain cannot properly command it.

What about Peru's Almirante Grau or the Russian Navy's Kara and Slava classes?

 

[CougarKing]

A ship means nothing if a crew cannot handle it properly or a Captain cannot properly command it.

What about Peru's Almirante Grau or the Russian Navy's Kara and Slava classes?

Or the current Italian Navy's two Andrea Doria class helicopter cruisers.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Andrea Doria is now a Horizon class frigate. The Italian Navy no longer uses cruisers.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon2/

 

[NCRCrow]

I am a personal fan of the Danish Navy especially the Flyvisken Class for its modular design and capabilities (Mines, Harpoon, Sparrow).

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/fly/

But overall the Royal Navy still rules the waves but we are better EW's!

 

[CougarKing]

Andrea Doria is now a Horizon class frigate. The Italian Navy no longer uses cruisers.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/horizon2/

My mistake. Thanks for the update.

 

[NCRCrow]

Unfortunately from 2010 and beyond the Chinese Navy will be an unparalleled Navy in new ship construction and technology.

 

[tomahawk6]

Royal Navy until 1945.

 

[CougarKing]

Unfortunately from 2010 and beyond the Chinese Navy will be an unparalleled Navy in new ship construction and technology.

I believe what Ex-Dragoon said applies here as well: A ship means nothing if a crew cannot handle it properly or a Captain cannot properly command it.

The Chinese Navy/PLAN still has little experience when it comes blue-water navy operations and it will be some time before the PLAN will be able to exert any influence beyond its traditional sphere of influence in numbers bigger than the occasional two frigates and their accompanying oiler who make a circumnavigation around the world on goodwill port visits just to show the flag.  :

The PLAN may be growing in hull numbers and catching up on the technology front, but in a future naval war between the PLAN and the USN, I am still willing to bet on the USN.

This is because the USN still continues to lead, along with their RN compatriots, not only when it comes to technology, but in the practice of carrier operations, fleet train logistics, ASW and many other areas.

 

[NCRCrow]

Hope you are right!

 

[medaid]

Someone may have said the same thing when the Imperial Japanese Navy/IJN before they destroyed a good chunk of the Pacific fleet... Never underestimate.

 

[CougarKing]

Someone may have said the same thing when the Imperial Japanese Navy/IJN before they destroyed a good chunk of the Pacific fleet... Never underestimate.

The IJN and the PLAN are not directly comparable, even if the current rise of mainland China is comparable to the industrial rise of Meiji-Japan. The IJN, by the time of the Second World War, had already proven itself as a battle-proven force with tradition that goes back as early as the Battle of Tsushima in 1904, during the Sino-Japanese War, when Admiral Togo's vastly outnumbered fleet defeated the Russian Fleet of the Czar. Their experience in World War One sent a couple of destroyers to the Mediterranean and the Gallipolli campaign while the rest of their fleet blockaded the German treaty port of Qingdao/Tsingtao and chased German raiders across the Pacific, such as the merchant cruiser Geier and Admiral Von Spee's cruiser squadron. And then you have the years of the China campaign to consider, with the successive Japanese invasion of Manchuria in 1931, then the invasion of China proper in 1937, which saw the IJN virtually reduce the ROCN- Chiang Kai-Shek's Navy- to a couple of destroyers and torpedo boats as well as gunboats which all sought refuge in the inner reaches of the Yangtze river near Chiang's wartime capital of Chungking.

My point is that by the time the IJN sent a carrier force to attack Pearl Harbor in 1941, as well as their various invasion fleets to conquer the rest of Southeast Asia, they already had years of battle experience under their belt.

The Chinese PLAN, in contrast, has ZILCH combat experience since the 1945-49 Chinese Civil War that resulted in the ROC govt. fleeing to Taiwan and the establishment of the PRC on the mainland; you hear of no PLAN operations during the Korean War or the 1979 Chinese invasion of Vietnam, although the PLA did attempt an ill-fated amphibious landing on the ROC-held fortress islands of Kinmen and Quemoy in the early 1950s, IIRC.

While you are right in saying that we should not underestimate the Chinese Navy, I just do not think that they have evolved to the point yet where they can threaten the USN of today the same way the IJN smashed Admiral Kimmel's fleet at Pearl Harbor back in 1941. Maybe in 2040 or 2050, but not today.

 

[Timmy!]